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SmartmanApps , (edited ) in 6÷2(1+2)
@SmartmanApps@programming.dev avatar

FACT CHECK 1/5

If you are sure the answer is one… you are wrong

No, you are. You’ve ignored multiple rules of Maths, as we’ll see…

it’s (intentionally!) written in an ambiguous way

Except it’s not ambiguous at all

There are quite a few people who are certain(!) that their result is the only correct answer

…and an entire subset of those people are high school Maths teachers!

What kind of evidence/information would it take to convince you, that you are wrong

A change to the rules of Maths that’s not in any textbooks yet, and somehow no teachers have been told about it yet either

If there is nothing that would change your mind, then I’m sorry I can’t do anything for you.

I can do something for you though - fact-check your blog

things that contradict your current beliefs.

There’s no “belief” when it comes to rules of Maths - they are facts (some by definition, some by proof)

How can math be ambiguous?

operator priority with “implied multiplication by juxtaposition”

There’s no such thing as “implicit multiplication”. You won’t find that term used anywhere in any Maths textbook. People who use that term are usually referring to Terms, The Distributive Law, or most commonly both!

This is a valid notation for a multiplication

Nope. It’s a valid notation for a factorised Term. e.g. 2a+2b=2(a+b). And the reverse process to factorising is The Distributive Law. i.e. 2(a+b)=(2a+2b).

but the order of operations it’s not well defined with respect to regular explicit multiplication

The only type of multiplication there is is explicit. Neither Terms nor The Distributive Law is classed as “multiplication”

There is no single clear norm or convention

There is a single, standard, order of operations rules

Also, see my thread about people who say there is no evidence/proof/convention - it almost always ends up there actually is, but they didn’t look (or didn’t want you to look)

The reason why so many people disagree is that

…they have forgotten about Terms and/or The Distributive Law, and are trying to treat a Term as though it’s a “multiplication”, and it’s not. More soon

conflicting conventions about the order of operations for implied multiplication

Let me paraphrase - people disagree about made-up rule

Weak juxtaposition

There’s no such thing - there’s either juxtaposition or not, and if there is it’s either Terms or The Distributive Law

construct “viral math problems” by writing a single-line expression (without a fraction) with a division first and a

…factorised term after that

Note how none of them use a regular multiplication sign, but implicit multiplication to trigger the ambiguity.

There’s no ambiguity…

multiplication sign - multiplication

brackets with no multiplication sign (i.e. a coefficient) - The Distributive Law

no multiplication sign and no brackets - Terms (also called products by some. e.g. Lennes)

If it’s a school test, ask you teacher

Why didn’t you ask a teacher before writing your blog? Maths tests are only ever ambiguous if there’s been a typo. If there’s no typo’s then there’s a right answer and wrong answers. If you think the question is ambiguous then you’ve not studied enough

maybe they can write it as a fraction to make it clear what they meant

This question already is clear. It’s division, NOT a fraction. They are NOT the same thing! Terms are separated by operators and joined by grouping symbols. 1÷2 is 2 terms, ½ is 1 term

BTW here is what happened when someone asked a German Maths teacher

you should probably stick to the weak juxtaposition convention

You should literally NEVER use “weak juxtaposition” - it contravenes the rules of Maths (Terms and The Distributive Law)

strong juxtaposition is pretty common in academic circles

…and high school, where it’s first taught

(6/2)(1+2)=9

If that was what was meant then that’s what would’ve been written - the 6 and 2 have been joined together to make a single term, and elevated to the precedence of Brackets rather than Division

written in an ambiguous way without telling you what they meant or which convention to follow

You should know, without being told, to follow the rules of Maths when solving it. Voila! No ambiguity

to stir up drama

It stirs up drama because many adults have forgotten the rules of Maths (you’ll find students get this right, because they still remember)

Calculators are actually one of the reasons why this problem even exists in the first place

No, you just put the cart before the horse - the problem existing in the first place (programmers not brushing up on their Maths first) is why some calculators do it wrong

“line-based” text, it led to the development of various in-line notations

Yes, we use / to mean divide with computers (since there is no ÷ on the keyboard), which you therefore need to put into brackets if it’s a fraction (since there’s no fraction bar on the keyboard either)

With most in-line notations there are some situations with conflicting conventions

Nope. See previous comment.

different manufacturers use different conventions

Because programmers didn’t check their Maths first, some calculators give wrong answers

More often than not even the same manufacturer uses different conventions

According to this video mostly not these days (based on her comments, there’s only Texas Instruments which isn’t obeying both Terms and The Distributive Law, which she refers to as “PEJMDAS” - she didn’t have a manual for the HP calcs). i.e. some manufacturers who were doing it wrong have switched back to doing it correctly

P.S. she makes the same mistake as you, and suggests showing her video to teachers instead of just asking a teacher in the first place herself (she’s suggesting to add something to teaching which we already do teach. i.e. ab=(axb)).

none of those two calculators is “wrong”

ANY calculator which doesn’t obey all the rules of Maths is wrong!

Bugs are – by definition – unintended behaviour. That is not the case here

So a calculator, which has a specific purpose of solving Maths expressions, giving a wrong answer to a Maths expression isn’t “unintended behaviour”? Do go on

SmartmanApps , in 6÷2(1+2)
@SmartmanApps@programming.dev avatar

Testing commenting

lightnegative , in *sheepish grin*

This meme hits home

zeekaran , in I studied political science and jazz...

I’m a programmer but I don’t go to social media to talk about programming.

TurboDiesel , in A handy reference guide - Lemmy Today
@TurboDiesel@lemmy.world avatar

Ok this got a nose puff out of me

SVcross , in *sheepish grin*
@SVcross@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t like arguing. People who argue make me sick.

Acinonyx , in USA-Israel relations explained

nazis and communists both agreeing on antisemitism. what a time to be alive

UraniumBlazer ,

Saying “don’t kill kids is antisemitism”?

Acinonyx ,

nice strawman you got there.

obvioulsy I agree with not killing children. but saying that Israel loves killing them is antisemitic

UraniumBlazer ,

Did I say Israel loves killing children? Nice strawman you got there.

The thing is, Israel doesn’t care if Palestinian children die. Israel doesn’t care if Palestinian civilians die. I’m saying that they should care about this. But then, people like you start calling us antisemitic.

Acinonyx ,

Did I say Israel loves killing children?

no, and I never said you did. the meme on the other hand did. nice strawman got got there.

in the meme the bug representing israel says that it doesn’t matter who it kills (including children), it just loves killing. then I called the meme antisemitic for this.

Israel doesn’t care if Palestinian children die. Israel doesn’t care if Palestinian civilians die. I’m saying that they should care about this.

I agree with all three statements and never said otherwise.

But then, people like you start calling us antisemitic.

I only called those people who say that Isreal likes killing children antisemitic. But by saying “us” you seem to indentify with those I call antisemitic…

UraniumBlazer ,

Oh yea… Forgot abt the meme lmao. Yea, I concede. The meme’s kinda dumb.

lolcatnip ,

Statements about Israel in general are not antisemitic because Israel is a political entity, not a synonym for Jews or Judaism.

Claiming Israel represents all Jews is antisemitic, though, because Israel is fucking awful and it’s unfair to blame all Jews for it.

WallEx , in BREAKING: Anthony Joshua delivered a stunning knockout victory over Francis Ngannou in Round 2 - Watch Video - Central24 News

Please post memes, this is not for sports/news

lightnegative , in Sad news about Akira Toriyama. Quick, I have a plan...

Me too man, me too.

RIP Akira Toriyama

Bangs42 , in I will use it until End
@Bangs42@lemmy.world avatar

I ditched my first email for [email protected] right out of high school.

It was cringe enough that even 18 year old me recognized it.

DillyDaily ,

I had two email addresses throughout all of highschool. The one I gave to adults if they asked, firstname-lastname@, and the one I used to sign into msn and give to all my friends… I forget the exact address but it was definitely along the lines of “hotpants-sexi.kitty.87@”

The former is still my primary email. The other one is sitting abandoned since I was 17 and smart enough to realise what a stupid idea it was, but I never deleted it and I can’t even remember it.

CaptainMcMonkey , in Progress

I think a lot of this joke refers to the Roman god Mars, and the Roman Goddess Venus, more than it does the planetary bodies. Roman and Greek mythology both have a lot of gender fuckery, so I think it’s pretty appropriate.

That bing AI thing says there’s somewhere around 65 to 70 named Roman deities, so I’m gonna make a call and say that there are probably 69 genders.

BudgetBandit , in I will use it until End

I‘d still use my gmx address from 2003 if it wasn’t for me opting in the free premium trial (I provided no information) that did not have an opt out option and then they banned my account…

son_named_bort , in I studied political science and jazz...

I’m mostly here for the shit posts.

Glaive0 , in Hard earned

I see someone has found the back alley of the Geoff’s Trash Anime restaurant.

aeharding , in Hard earned
@aeharding@lemmy.world avatar

Nice

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