Voyager just started their TestFlight app version a few days ago and it’s really great (on iOS.) It added haptic feedback which is very nice, and fixes the freezing issue. Otherwise it’s identical, I think. I’d guess there will be an android app sometime.
I’m also testing Memmy and using Mlem - both are coming along great, but Voyager app version is the cleanest and my favorite atm.
Looking forward to trying Sync when it comes to iOS. Never tried it for Reddit - only used Apollo.
How can I get it on Testflight? I am using Mlem currently and tried Memmy a bit. For now I look at Mlem as my Lemmy-app, because the comments are well formatted compared to Memmy, but Memmy is Open Source and has definetly the the better Icon. Yes, such things are important for me, too.
It’s fast and it’s about as native as most apps get nowadays. Kotlin on Android or Swift on iOS still run in virtual machines with GC not unlike Javascript. Nobody writes apps in C++ either. Maybe one day we will do it in Rust when there’s ever a good mobile GUI framework.
Also by fast I do mean fast. Much better than any other PWA or website I’ve ever used and on par with good native apps. There do be some bugs, I’ve run into two and they’re a bit annoying, but I’m sure they’ll be fixed soon enough. The dev is super active and it’s open source so anyone can contribute.
Much of the time you can’t really tell it’s not Apollo and that was the best reddit app hands down.
I do have a recent iPhone though. Maybe an older or lower end phone won’t be as fast. But even so, I would still recommend trying it.
Your argument for "as native as most apps” falls apart pretty quickly though.
I’m not saying it’s a bad app. I’m just saying it’s a badly made app, because JavaScript was a joke 30 years ago, it’s a joke today. (ThePrimeagen)
Most apps aren’t native, so being “as native” as the baseline average or better isn’t even saying much at all. They’re all using V8, and I’m slightly less disgruntled if they use something like React Native or whatever instead of Vue and virtual DOM stuff. This was brief but you get the idea.
React native, Xamarin, Flutter aren’t REALLY native either. Neither are, like I said, the main languages either mobile platform’s owner wants you to use.
Mobile apps are rarely native for real these days.
Voyager uses React so it uses the Virtual DOM much like Vue (which often tends to be faster) or React Native. I can’t see how using React Native instead of React like you suggested is all that much better. It’s all the same shit.
You want native, there’s Dioxus for Rust or I guess QT for C++. Those will compile into actual binaries rather than some sort of bytecode running in an interpreter. But these take much more time to write complex apps in and in a world where we want all our apps to be free, they’re hard to justify.
It’s interesting you quote ThePrimeagen about Javascript, because it’s literally the main language he uses/used at Netflix and he often says it’s not a bad language. He’s got a workshop on Javascript coming in November.
I hate the language as much as any and have avoided using it professionally, but your arguments are pretty weak. Modern Javascript engines are ridiculously fast, which is why a WELL MADE web app can be much faster than a shoddily made “native” app.
Edit: It’s now available on the app store, making it native by your definition. Which is to say it has direct access to some system APIs, but it still renders a vDOM like any other react native app.
I've somewhat mastered how to use it and became a power user. I'm happy about this, I've developed a sense of superiority over those who don't use it, and will now promote it constantly to others like a goddamn cult. My SO has left me and my family has disowned me, but I don't care, they are too ignorant to be as enlightened as I am.
(A decade or two later) I don't even give a fuck anymore what somebody uses, this still works for me, and what works for you, works for you. Let's just all coexist. OS and app development models don't mean shit, common standards and protocols between them do. As long as I, a Linux user, can email a PNG to a Mac user and they can open it, we're good.
It's been like this since the mid-90s. Most of the people who are being annoying about it are in stage 2.
Thank you. Exactly what is happening and why I’m so exhausted. Feels like the stupid Mac vs Windows debates back in the day, with the even more annoying Linux users.
I have the (perhaps irrational) fear that sitting too comfortably in stage 3 leads to the kind of complacency that allows things like Web Environment Integrity to escape the “shower thought” phase.
On principle I believe that people shouldn’t feel forced to restrict themselves to FOSS - I use Steam and barely ever pirate games (ignore my Lemmy instance I guess); however, I think people should put some effort in understanding the consequences of always choosing the path of least resistance, at the very least.
That’s not an issue with FOSS vs proprietary, but with large corporations needing to be broken up.
FOSS isn’t immune to that, its a known thing that large corporations can use their dominance of a market segment to infiltrate even totally open standards and make demands with the threat of leaving the standard (and therefore resigning it to becoming irrelevant).
This is especially true of web standards. Chromium is FOSS, yet Google can use its absolute dominance in the market place to force through changes to things like HTTP standards (also FOSS). My understanding is Microsoft and Google both have strong-armed stuff into C++ in the past as well
I’m at 3 and it’s been quite annoying all these posts about people pushing Sync glory, saying that every other app is basically a buggy garbage (I’m exaggerating). Like, dude, I enjoy the other apps and I am not having bugs, can you enjoy your app without belittling others? Thanks?
Maybe the reason some people are pissy with Sync is because even with their community blocked it’s bloody everywhere on the all feed. Like guys I get it you like it but pls stop.
So it’s just growing up and becoming a more mature person? Don’t think that applies specifically to FOSS enthusiasts. The same could be said about coffee hobbyists, for example.
I prefer my version of stage 3: I still care about software freedom and advocate for it (as well as related issues like interoperability, privacy, and right to repair) but without being an obnoxious fanboy for “Linux” or talking down to people who still use non-free technology for whatever reason.
Simply caring about an issue doesn’t make one a cultist or zealot, and not caring about anything does not make one enlightened.
This one dude has made this app for years and constantly updates it, fixes things, is responsive, and makes a great app. He’s now been more loyal to his users longer than Reddit has, and I personally have used his app daily for 13 years.
Yeah, I’ll happily pay for it.
FOSS is great but it doesn’t pay the rent people, this guy is doing this mostly as his main gig. This isn’t some huge corpo, it’s one guy who makes his living building the app he loves. I’m sure he’d love to make it FOSS if he didn’t have to pay bills on anything.
FOSS can pay the rent. But the users that will complain about £20 for a lifetime of ad removal, definitely aren’t going to be the ones that help him should the bank come calling about late mortgage payments.
This is the same crap I left /r/Linux for way back in the day, so so so many people who are all “Linux is the best way and you’re stupid for even considering windows or mac” but unable to see realities. Yes, of course I love linux and FOSS, I use it as my primary driver, but we live in a society where free work doesn’t pay for housing.
You’re exactly right, most of the “FOSS Open Source supreme” people will look at an app that was lovingly crafted for months, call it garbage, and then demand they make it free. I just can’t even with them.
Meanwhile I’d love to see the stats on how many hours a week they put into FOSS apps on their own, and if they’ve given up their jobs to code for FOSS apps for the good of the community.
I’m a developer. I code mostly proprietary stuff for my company. I’d gladly go code for FOSS projects, but so far my bank is just completely unwilling to cancel my mortgage payments, and my electricity, water, sewer, internet, they all want to be paid too, so unfortunately I’m stuck doing this.
I think the issue a lot of folks have is people like yourself always connecting it back to profit/salary. A large portion of us are interested in Linux/technology/foss for personal reasons and this corporate stuff not only reeks but makes enough noise to drown out better long term solutions. Yes I do it professionally too and yes I fight the good fight but we do what we need to do, this dude does not need to do this. UX really just isn’t important when we’re talking about expanding human capabilities, or I should say UX is important but pretty things aren’t. My opinion anyway but I was raised to care about this stuff by one of those wizard beards so to see your attitude is prevalent just sucks, no disrespect and nothing personal.
That’s fine as your opinion, but it’s not a popular one. Many people tried lemmy and left almost immediately because they want a better UI. We come from the old usenet boards so we know what UI was like back then, but now people expect a great UI/UX to use a service. So yes, I understand the principals, but we shouldn’t demonize people who pay money for a better experience, and if you’re a developer I’m sure you know that a good UX costs some money, but a great UX costs a lot of money.
There's also a lot of younger techies on the board cause if you even got remotely deep enough you'd have to learn how to use those user board websites to solve your extremely specific problems.
Lemmy doesn’t have ads. If you have to pay to remove them don’t you think something is wrong with that? Why not pay for the community and useful features instead?
The ads finance the app, I think that’s perfectly fine (in principle).
I asked the dev a few weeks ago, this app is literally his livelihood. And he has a pretty good track record of delivering good software. Why not support him?
If you think more ads is the solution that’s good for you. Ads are society’s cancer, so I have little choice other than to block it. (Paying to get rid of ads perpetuates the idea that ads are profitable. That’s up to you.)
So the three options for him to keep developing that we know of are 1) Ads 2) Pay for a license or 3) Fundraising. He offers 1 and 2, and 3 is well known to not work, seriously nobody donates. Check out npm fund and how so little people used it that they just removed it.
If your only argument is “I deserve things that took a lot of time and effort for free” then you aren’t getting much sympathy from me.
You’re not paying to remove ads from Lemmy. You can continue using Lemmy ad-free on mobile via the mobile site or any of the other PWA’s or native apps. What you’re paying to remove ads from is Sync. The developer has decided that they need to be compensated to sustain the amount of effort developing and maintaining the app requires. If you don’t want to pay that price with cash or your eyeballs then don’t use it.
Nobody is forcing you to use Sync, nobody is forcing you to see ads. The beauty of a platform like Lemmy is you have the choice to use whatever client you want. That doesn’t mean you’re entitled to any of them.
NPM did donations too and found that <0.01% of users paid anything, and the average for even the most used packages made on average $40 a month. That doesn’t pay a full time fry cook, let alone developer
I remember this being a problem on GitHub where developers would full on attack NPM packages that requested funding or donations in the installer.
Core-js had a really rough ride with that one, and babel (one of their main users) could not spare any development time to work on it, in the absence of the single maintainer.
It’s kind of disappointing in FOSS circles how some just refuse to acknowledge that devs need to eat - not everyone codes open source software as a side/passion project in spare time.
Yup, I remember the core-js debacle, one dude literally supporting the entirety of the internet, tried everything he could just to get some funding from literally anyone, that was the 40 dollar mark I got, he got 40 dollars to maintain core-js. I’m sure even Lemmy here uses it.
He would receive threats on his github on this project he started for fun saying there were bugs, or they needed features, and he said he even received death threats for just asking for funding. Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, and Google all use core-js but none of them gave him anything for using it anywhere. He even asked them all if he could just come work for them and maintain corejs since they all use it so heavily, none of them responded. So he just gave up, and said basically screw everyone, no one wants to support me, my family has sacrificed too much for this project that no one wants to pay for, and he got a real job and stopped updating core-js.
It’s a sad story. Everyone here loves to praise FOSS, and if we lived in the Federation we’d be able to support FOSS simply by using it, but if you’re using it and not supporting the developers then you’re not truly a FOSS supporter. I’m really honestly ashamed with how people here have acted in this thread, principals are great but so few are willing to put their money where their mouth is. The donation button for Lemmy devs is right at the top, how many people in this thread have even clicked on it, let alone donated?
This is not a proprietary app (in the first party terms, it’s still a 3rd party app)
Yes Okay I get it, yes it’s proprietary, but I’m saying everyone was gleefully using proprietary 3rd party apps on Reddit, Apollo was proprietary, RIF was proprietary, proprietary was not forced on anyone. 1st party apps were forced on us all.
This is literally one of the apps Reddit killed off
I think the comment you’re replying to is not talking about late Reddit refugees but early FOSS enthusiast that were on Lemmy before. You’re missing the point.
The Lemmy protocol is open source and you’re free to use an open source solution. You’re free to use sync for Lemmy in much the same way you can run a Spotify client in Linux. One does not destroy the other.
Yeah yeah, but OP made a post about it so I thought I’d add some of the reasoning behind people being that way. I don’t care what app people use as long as I can use the one I like.
literally no one is forgetting about that - And the great thing about Lemmy is that no one will ever be forced to use an app they don’t want to use, whether it be closed source or open source.
What OP is (rightly) complaining about, is the huge amount of holier-than-thou rhetoric that’s plastered all over the front page of Lemmy right now giving users shit for wanting to use a closed source app.
I love FOSS, I’m typing this comment on a linux desktop right this moment (arch, btw) - but sometimes the best tool for a job (by my own completely subjective opinion) is a closed source tool. Using a closed source app to access an open source system isn’t a betrayal of that open source system.
If you personally don’t want to use a closed source solution, or if you specifically think that Sync is a bad solution for any number of possible reasons, then you’re free to continue using open source solutions, I really don’t see why so many people care so much about what apps other people are using, Sync existing doesn’t take anything away from open source solutions (except maybe users, but again - you can’t force people to use your software)
the huge amount of holier-than-thou rhetoric that’s plastered all over the front page of Lemmy right now
All I’m seeing in the all frontpage is people glorifying Sync while belittling other apps and complaining about those complainers, Like dude, I have the sync community blocked because while I like that it exists, I don’t want to be force feed with that content, and now I still am because it’s being discussed in other communities.
What’s annoying is the way some people talk about the app, stating that it’s the objective best app ever, like zealots. I don’t give two flying fucks about the price but I swear that the alleged complaints of FOSS users may be in part because of the attitude of other users.
Please link me a single post other than this one that glorifies sync while belittling FOSS apps (not that this one belittles Foss apps in the slightest) - preferably with more than a dozen upvotes
Because I posted a screenshot in this thread with five of the top 10 posts on my front page being the exact opposite, and I really don’t believe you when you say that you’re being spammed with “sync zealots”
People like Sync, but it’s the haters that are being spammy and obnoxious about it, not it’s users
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