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AVincentInSpace ,

Face it, Linux is just the kernel. You use systemd as your operating system.

psmgx ,

Triggered

boatsnhos931 ,

Ride his face into VALHALLA!!!

sp3tr4l ,

Ya’ll need God.

Posting this from TempleOS

celeste ,

How’d you get internet working?

sp3tr4l ,

All things are possible through Christ lol

psmgx ,

All things are possible though profound autism and schizophrenia

udon ,

Actually, it’s GNU/unkempt, bearded man

MilitantVegan ,

The alternatives to the GNU tools are largely permissively licensed, yeah? What could possibly go wrong with that…

nickwitha_k ,

…People who wanted to donate their software to the public with no strings attached could see an uptick in the number of users?

MilitantVegan ,

The number of users being those who would rather leverage the software for free, and then resell a walled garden version with proprietary extensions.

woelkchen ,
@woelkchen@lemmy.world avatar

If the proprietary extensions don’t add significant value, nobody would buy it in the first place.

nickwitha_k , (edited )

That’s the beautiful thing about gifting software with permissive licenses (when one wants to): it’s a gift and anyone can do whatever they want with it for free.

ETA: I DO think that it is important for one who chooses to license software permissively to be informed about their decision and its implications. But, just like consent in other areas, as long as one enters into it intentionally and with the understanding of what the license means, it’s noone’s place to judge (and, like consent in other interpersonal areas, the license can be revoked/modified at any time - with a new version). Honestly, really weird of those that take issue with individuals choosing to gift their software to humanity - there’s way more interesting and useful things to engage in in the FLOSS landscape.

woelkchen ,
@woelkchen@lemmy.world avatar

People making those comments don’t realize that much of the desktop Linux stack is MIT/BSD licensed anyway. It’s also not like those “permissive licenses bad” people would delete all such licensed software from their system because the result would be unusable.

woelkchen ,
@woelkchen@lemmy.world avatar

LLVM and Clang make massive strides over GCC thanks to its license. If it weren’t for many of the infamous “GNU’isms”, GCC would have dies years ago.

StaySquared ,

If it were true womansplaining, her dialogue alone would take 2 hours before finally getting to the point. Before that time, 90% of the readers would have given up.

rockettaco37 ,
@rockettaco37@lemmy.world avatar

Honestly? Fuck rms. :D

woelkchen ,
@woelkchen@lemmy.world avatar

He wouldn’t mind if children did …

MeDuViNoX ,
@MeDuViNoX@sh.itjust.works avatar

💅🏻

blind3rdeye ,

A typical ActivityPub+Lemmy post.

ripe_banana ,
@ripe_banana@lemmy.world avatar

And its just beautiful.

therealjcdenton ,

Without the mention of mansplain and womansplain this would be funny

Luccus , (edited )

I work in IT and sometimes I have to explain something to a user who is somewhat tech-illiterate. Even developers may have significant blind spots when it comes to their OS or networking, for example.

So, if I notice it, I’ll change some terminology and I may explain instructions differently or use metaphors so every user understands what I’m saying.

And most coworkers do the same thing.

Here’s why I bring this up: For whatever reason, some colleagues give female coworkers the same treatment.

And that’s weird.

If someone is constantly treated like this, they should be allowed to rant about it on their blog. I’m fine with snark if it geht’s a point across.

Mango ,

Is it bad if I tend to do this except to everyone because I don’t generally expect people to know the same specific stuff as me?

Luccus ,

No. If it’s everyone, then it’s everyone and at worst it’s not the most efficient way to communicate.

I would say, if you single out a group of people based on physical characteristics, then it gets weird.

But if it’s “The internet won’t start” vs “Every packet on port 433 is dropped even though no firewall rule is set”, then I think it’s reasonable to make some asumptions and adjust communication accordingly.

Mango ,

Oh yeah definitely. With that second one, is be requesting explanation for myself!

It’s really just that when I start to say anything about anything I’m interested in, I get a “why do you think I know anything about that?” a lot, so I shifted gears to the opposite early in life. I go explaining all the things involved with what I’m talking about before I get to the point and people think I’m tangential.

lambda ,
@lambda@programming.dev avatar

I love the examples!

Corgana ,
@Corgana@startrek.website avatar

hey look its the guy from the meme

onlinepersona ,

That’s fine. It’s proof that both exist and one is deadly.

Anti Commercial-AI license

dan ,
@dan@sffa.community avatar

It just replaced GNU parts. It’s a classical Theseus ship dilemma. It’s still GNU.

state_electrician ,

What? If you replace Windows with free alternatives, it’s still Windows? You still owe Microsoft money?

blind3rdeye ,

I’m sure Microsoft would be supportive of that point of view. And with their wealth and lobbying power … … Lets not mention it again, and hope for the best.

umbraroze ,

I’m suddenly having flashbacks of the whole SCO fiasco. And people older than me probably have flashbacks of the BSD/System V lawsuit.

I mean, this thing is fun to argue about, until you remember people used to argue about this in court.

BetaDoggo_ ,

What’s the deal with Alpine not using GNU? Is it a technical or ideological thing? Or is it another “because we can” type distro?

Ziglin ,

I know it’s very efficient and small (I believe it needs less than 80mib of ram with nothing else running) and that they leave out some of the basic commands like man to save space. Maybe they wrote more minimal versions of some coreutils?

lemmyvore ,

RAM usage depends on what you run inside the container not on the image size. If the container runs a single small program it will use a small amount of RAM regardless of the image it’s based on.

Ziglin ,

I specified that it would be running nothing (other than the init system which is the tty). Thereby the amount of ram required should not vary by much.

recarsion ,

I don’t know if people use it on desktop but with its minimal size it’s convenient as hell for docker images that don’t need a lot of dependencies installed

AllOutOfBubbleGum ,

I used it on a laptop for a while. Pretty impressive just how lightweight it is, but a bit of a grind to initially get everything working as expected. Overall, I’m a big fan.

unique_hemp ,

All the core tools are actually a single executable with many symlinks to it, which makes the distro very compact. This makes it very nice as a base for Docker images.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BusyBox

IsoSpandy ,

It’s because we can to an extreme. Extremely lightweight distro. Very nice in containers and vms. One of the most loved ones out there.

NoFun4You ,

Yar

potentiallynotfelix ,

All that to say, alpine should probably stay on servers

lemmyvore ,

You can use Alpine on a desktop fairly easily.

waitmarks ,

it should probably stay in docker containers

woelkchen ,
@woelkchen@lemmy.world avatar

As long as it stays off the Formula 1 race track!

deltapi ,

Why?

nUbee ,

It would seem that GNU/Linux or Linux (whatever the user-accessing operating system is called) is the only OS that must mention its kernel. No one calls Windows the NT operating system, nor does anyone call Mac OS the Darwin operating system. So why should Linux be the exception?

When I think of GNU, I think of a project that had a very particular goal in mind: build an operating system that replaces Unix with entirely free software. The project got nearly all the way there, but before they got a usable kernel working, Torvalds licensed his kernel with the GPL. With the Linux kernel combined with GNU, we have an OS the GNU project set out to create. So why should Torvalds get all the credit? Without calling the OS GNU, most people don’t even know how or why it came to be.

I could see a valid argument to just simply call the OS GNU. It was the name the original team gave the project to have a fully functional OS made with entirely free software. True, Torvalds didn’t write Linux for GNU, but neither did the X Window System. A Kernel is essential for operation though, so I can see why the name GNU/Linux was proposed.

schnurrito ,

“The OS” doesn’t exist. The operating systems you’re talking about are called Debian, Ubuntu, Arch, Fedora, RHEL, etc etc. The main work of making an actually usable OS from the various free software components others have written has always been done by the teams responsible for these products.

But we still need a way to refer to them collectively, and it used to make sense to call them “Linux” because they were pretty much the only operating systems that used the Linux kernel, but now that Android is the most widely used OS on the planet, it doesn’t anymore, and this alone is a reason to say GNU/Linux unless you want to include Android.

nUbee ,

I understand distributions (Debian, Arch, etc.) are what users will use. But those distributions have a foundation to build off of (that’s what I’m referring to when I say OS), and that foundation most distributions use is GNU and Linux.

GNU came first, and the final piece of the missing puzzle was Linux. Adding in Linux shouldn’t overshadow all the incredible work the GNU project took over 7 years to create.

Android is a different issue, although it certainly puts a hole in the logic of calling the desktop OS Linux. “[Android] contains Linux, but it isn’t Linux.”

fmstrat ,

This is a rabbit hole. Most software packages out there use hundreds of modules with other names. Heck, I bet the client you are using would require 27 different slashes for this to make sense.

Sometimes you put a lot of work into a foundation. Sometimes you use a foundation. Pride in one’s work does not always require recognition.

Eufalconimorph ,

Systemd/GNU/Linux/GTK or Systemd/GNU/Linux/QT, really…

schnurrito ,

GTK being a part of GNU (at least originally)

Eufalconimorph ,

Sure, I should have gone further.

Systemd/GNU libc/GNU Coreutils/GNU BASH/Linux/X11//GTK/GNOME
Systemd/GNU libc/GNU Coreutils/GNU BASH/Linux/X11/GTK/LXDE
Systemd/GNU libc/GNU Coreutils/Zsh/Linux/X11/GTK/GNOME
Systemd/GNU libc/GNU Coreutils/Zsh/Linux/X11/GTK/LXDE
SysVInit/musl/Busybox/tcsh/Linux/csh
Systemd/GNU libc/GNU Coreutils/Zsh/Linux/Wayland/QT/KDE Plasma
Systemd/GNU libc/GNU Coreutils/Zsh/Linux/Wayland/QT/LXQT

etc, etc.

There are thousands of combinations of the possible layers needed to make an OS.

schnurrito ,

the thing is that not all of them use systemd or bash or zsh or even X11 (servers don’t usually have X11 installed)

All of them use a Linux kernel and many components that were originally developed for GNU, especially the C library.

Eufalconimorph ,

Yes, I listed sysvinit for that reason. And Musl instead of glibc. GNU is optional in a Linux distro, except for the kernel’s use of a GNU license.

Eufalconimorph ,

Except Alpine & those based on it, which uses Linux but not GNU libc or GNU coreutils or GNU BASH… Just musl libc & Busybox. I.e. the entire subject of this thread is one of the non-GNU Linuxes.

iopq ,

I don’t use those, I select my own components using SystemD OS.

Like my configuration actually has to specify whether I’m using gnome or KDE, nothing is “by default” in my distro except for SystemD

homura1650 ,

Because the thing people refer to when they say “linux” is not actually an operating system. It is a family of operating systems built by different groups that are built mostly the same way from mostly the same components (which, themselves are built by separate groups).

nUbee ,

If I’m not mistaken, you’re talking about distributions. When I write ‘operating system’, I’m referring to a collection of programs that provide a set of utility for a user, such as file manipulation, the ability to compile other programs, etc. Distributions expand on that functionality by configuring everything, providing other programs, and methods to install more. But they mostly build off a common framework, the operating system. Linux is a component of that system that provides the framework. Should it get all the credit for doing so? Personally, I don’t think so.

bravesirrbn ,

Maybe it just boils down to “Linux” simply sounding better when pronounced

Just like e.g. most people just say “velcro” and not “hook-and-loop” as the company Velcro itself wants people to call it.

nUbee ,

And that’s a tragedy because that convenience of pronunciation comes with the cost of losing credit for the group that started the whole thing. Because only “Linux” is used, many people think Linus Torvalds developed/invented the entire operating system.

Hook and loop being called Velcro doesn’t hurt Velcro the same way because they still have all the credit for making it. The only problem they face is losing a trademark.

bluewing ,

Perhaps it is a tragedy that we seem to have lost the GNU part. But in the end, the great unwashed masses get to decide what something is called.

Personally, I blame the Brits for this, (and NOT the French this time), because of their penchant for trying to chop every multi-syllable word down into as few as possible. See: Football vs Soccer silliness.

lemmyvore ,

But the Linux kernel was central to the advent of FOSS operating systems. If it were up to the GNU project we’d still not have a working OS. It’s unfair to speculate because maybe the BSD family would have taken over but it’s worth mentioning that Stallman also passed up on the BSD kernel as well. So, really, the GNU userland had to be dragged into widespread success against its goals.

Also, it’s a lot easier to replicate a basic userland than it is to get a working OS going. I think Linux would have done well even without the GNU utils but the opposite is demonstrably not true.

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