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Hyprland is a toxic community

Hyprland is an open source Wayland compositor based on wlroots, a project I started back in 2017 to make it easier to build good Wayland compositors. It’s a project which is loved by its users for its emphasis on customization and “eye candy” – beautiful graphics and animations, each configuration tailored to the unique look and feel imagined by the user who creates it. It’s a very exciting project!

Unfortunately, the effect is spoilt by an incredibly toxic and hateful community. I cannot recommend Hyprland to anyone who is not prepared to steer well clear of its community spaces. Imagine a high school boys’ locker room come to life on Discord and GitHub and you’ll get an idea of what it’s like.

I empathise with Vaxry. I remember being young, smart, productive… and mean. I did some cool stuff, but I deeply regret the way I treated people. It wasn’t really my fault – I was a product of my environment – but it was my responsibility. Today, I’m proud to have built many welcoming communities, where people are rewarded for their involvement, rather than coming away from their experience hurt. What motivates us to build and give away free software if not bringing joy to ourselves and others? Can we be proud of a community which brings more suffering into the world?

Update: Response from Vaxry, Hyprland Developer

lckdscl ,
@lckdscl@whiskers.bim.boats avatar

CW: slurs, bigotry

Well this was apparently their chat log. I found the link through the comments on Hacker News. Whatever you think of Drew, he’s not wrong at all, they sound like they just discovered 4chan.

piexil ,

From Vaxry’s response:

opinion - has no place in a serious blogpost

Sir, what do you think a BLOG is for?

CypherPsycho ,

Who gives a fucking shit lol. Guy makes software I like, I use it. I don’t care if he has slaves on treadmill generating his electricity.

voidskull ,

Offensive, but funny

beteljuice ,

I stopped using it because of a couple shitty interactions on Discord. I don’t know anything about the developer himself but the company he keeps sucks. Using the word “cucked” when talking about breaks in dependencies… and being told “see if I care” when pointing out a race condition I found in initialization that caused problems with multimonitor setups.

No thanks. Sway works great. No need for eye candy.

kilgore_trout ,

Take every opinion from Drew DeVault with a grain of salt.

SirPlus ,

The guy who develops hyprland is a known transphobe, I’m surprised this is just now coming out.

intrepid ,

That usually isn’t a problem as long as they keep it to themselves and away from the community. There are many Foss developers who are like that - they don’t cause a controversy. This one seems to be different and openly toxic.

xavier666 ,

Your first mistake was joining a Discord group for a software product. Github pages / bug-tracker or GTFO.

blindbunny ,

Fucking right? Let alone a open source project.

mojo ,

this guy just learned about discord general chats lol

they’re all this bad, and also they’re absolutely dogshit for open source software so I have no idea why people make them

moonpiedumplings ,

I’m in the max server limit, 100 right now, and many of those are people who treat discord as github, which is so annoying (but many projects are of questionable legality, like Dan’s palace which makes and distributes completed android and vita ports of other games for free).

One time I got excited since there was announcement for the half life 2 android source port discord. I thought it was a big update or maybe a new game, but what I saw was something like:

the memes channel is for memes, not child porn

It’s just discord that has these issues. Matrix or IRC don’t have these problems. Discord just creates a kind of culture that fosters this stuff.

mojo ,

yeah it really attracts the young gamer crowd, not exactly for serious discussion

h_a_r_u_k_i , (edited )
@h_a_r_u_k_i@programming.dev avatar

This. I’m tired of all short responses that don’t want to discuss the problem or steer the topics to a direction.

blindbunny ,

Nope it’s all over matrix as well.

moonpiedumplings ,

I haven’t encountered any of these issue on matrix, but admittedly I haven’t joined a lot of matrix chats.

blindbunny ,

I was/am a mod for a LGBT room. I had to take a break it’s gotten so bad lately.

kaboom36 ,

If your discord general chat looks like this you are in the wrong discord

mojo ,

You frontin like there’s any better quality chat then that

ryannathans ,

Mom, people on the internet are being mean again

leastprivilege ,

I just switched to hyprland and although the discord general chat isn’t for everyone, they have been helpful when I ask stupid questions and need a little help.

Dirk ,
@Dirk@lemmy.ml avatar

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/e549d782-7799-4007-9eb9-940a05ae7160.png

GenBlob ,

It sucks that cool projects like hyprland are usually riddled with toxic weirdos that ruin it. It also sucks that there’s not much to choose in the wayland space that’s usable and actively developed but I refuse to use hyprland after seeing this.

ExLisper ,

Who cares about the community? If it’s useful and works I will use it. It’s not like I’m paying for it. If the community is toxic people will not contribute to the project. If they don’t need contributors they can do whatever they like.

vredez ,

Rare to see people with common sense these days.

RegalPotoo ,
@RegalPotoo@lemmy.world avatar

Because it’s important to call people out for their bullshit and not tacitly approve of it by keeping quiet?

ExLisper ,

IMHO calling people out for everything easily turns into vicious witch haunts and doesn’t really change anything. They weren’t nice to you? Don’t use their software. The whole world really doesn’t need to know about each alleged asshole. Not shouting at every person I disagree with is not approving of anything.

drislands ,

I generally agree that it’s not necessary to bring unrelated problems into a space.

But this post reads like “this software is good but the community is not welcoming, I don’t recommend getting into either”. I think that’s valid.

ExLisper ,

I don’t think it’s valid. Using some software does not actually mean I support or agree with its creators. It’s FOSS, the devs invest their time and give it out for free. By using this software I don’t make it easier for them to spread their word. There’s a lot of cases where I would say it’s valid like. let’s say Elon Musk is giving me a free Tesla. He lost money on it but me driving around in his car is still a form of promotion so I’m helping him sell his cars, make money and promote his opinions so I would not take it. But here using this software is totally personal matter. By installing it I don’t promote it or provide founds to the authors. If they are assholes every person offended by them is free to decide no to use it. Posting all over the internet that they were not nice to you is just petty. All it does is create silly shitstorms and angry posts.

Zangoose ,

You’re still giving them a platform by installing their code though?

If you use software coming from someone you inherently disagree with, especially a desktop environment/compositor, you depend on that person for your computer’s day-to-day functionality. Isn’t one of the key points of the FOSS community that we disagree with large controlling companies like Google and Microsoft? That, even when they make FOSS contributions, it should be taken with a huge grain of salt?

Imo, this is the exact same thing. Even if it’s good software, not wanting to rely on code from someone you don’t agree with or trust (even if those concerns are unrelated to the given codebase) is completely reasonable and valid

ExLisper ,

‘Giving them platform’? What is that supposed to mean? It’s not like they gaining anything from my CPU cycles. No one knows what software I’m running on my computer.

I’m not depending on any software as long as there are alternatives. And no, the point is not to disagree with large companies. Big corporations make contributions to Linux kernel all the time. As long as it’s truly FOSS and they don’t control it it’s not an issue. If the company controls it it’s not really FOSS (like Chrome or Android).

Also, not using their code is not the same as telling everyone else they should not use it. You can use whatever you like. Complaining online that some community was not nice to you is IMHO silly.

Zangoose ,

Depending on something isn’t necessarily tied to how many alternatives there are.

For example: I use a heavily configured qtile setup on my desktop. I’m depending on that setup working every time I turn my computer on. Sure, I could switch to i3 or sway or Hyprland, but that would take a considerable amount of time and effort. In this case, I’m depending on qtile working for me, so I can get work done instead of messing with a bunch of config files. The only time this wouldn’t happen is when one solution can be a completely (or almost completely) drop-in replacement for the other, e.g. how sway claims to be with i3.

This is especially true with tiling window managers, where people spend many hours configuring setups to behave how they want. Moving to a different alternative isn’t exactly simple.

To your point about FOSS: chrome and android may not be FOSS, but as much as I dislike it AOSP and Chromium definitely are, even if Google controls the repos for both. Your definition is a slippery slope because by that definition software like Ubuntu, Manjaro, etc. also aren’t FOSS because the repos are controlled by a single company.

To your last point: telling someone else they shouldn’t use a piece of code for the same reason you don’t is also perfectly valid. It’s not like it’s an order, they don’t have to follow it. People can choose to agree or disagree with you if they want. Ultimately, the decision to install software in Linux lies with the user, and the most any online opinion can do is give a persuading or dissuading argument. Just like I could say, “don’t use this software, it’s built on some old deprecated library that will probably break in a month”, I could also say “don’t use this software, the main dev is a bad person because xyz…” and it would still be up to the user to make a decision. If you don’t mind disagreeing with the author of software you use, that’s fine, but not everyone is like that, and that’s also fine.

piexil ,

If you use this software, You will likely come across the community, in at least a passive way. as this is a piece of software with extensive manual configuration. Most people will be reading blogs and forums to figure out their configuration.

4anon ,

Lgbt and it’s consequences are a disaster to humanity

4anon ,

Also daily reminder that you will never be a woman

moonpiedumplings ,

Incorrect, from wikipedia:

The available research indicates that the brain structure of androphilic trans women with early-onset gender dysphoria is closer to that of cisgender women than that of cisgender men.[3] It also reports that gynephilic trans women differ from both cisgender female and male controls in non-dimorphic brain areas

Aka: Trans women may have been born with the body of a man, but they were born with the brain of a woman.

…m.wikipedia.org/…/Causes_of_gender_incongruence#….

admin , (edited )
@admin@lemmy.my-box.dev avatar

Don’t feed the trolls, report & block them.

Edit: Ahh, the joy of running your own instance :) https://lemmy.my-box.dev/pictrs/image/dfafea28-c0e5-46fc-87f5-0db6a06e07a3.jpeg

theshatterstone54 ,

Can you please explain what you mean by the edit?

admin ,
@admin@lemmy.my-box.dev avatar

Because I run my own lemmy instance, I can ban users from it. Effectively it’s exactly the same as blocking them (their posts won’t ever reach me), but it does feel slightly better.

rooaslp2000 ,

yet another useless drama involving the alphabet degens, how new

4anon ,

They just love getting attention by creating all these drama all the time. What a waste of time. Fucking snowflakes.

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