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geolaw ,

I feel like this is a dumb question but why do web engines need constant development? I thought we had an established standard for HTML. Once a web engine matches that standard isn’t that sufficient?

urfavlaura ,

some reasons that I can think of:

  • performance improvements (e.g. JIT)
  • new standards (e.g. WASM)
  • vulnerabities
  • new features (e.g. web engines weren’t always sandboxed)
Asudox ,
@Asudox@lemmy.world avatar

It’s nice and all but usage of Swift is kind of not great.

BaumGeist OP ,

Why is Swift bad?

Also, I noticed the project has taken donations from mostly non-foss companies. Let’s hope they stand by their principles

Asudox ,
@Asudox@lemmy.world avatar

Welp, I haven’t seen anyone learn Swift other than for Apple stuff these days. So I wonder how many can actually contribute to the code. It’s also made by Apple, so yeah. It would have been more performant and secure (both of which are pretty important in a browser) if it was written in a more low level language. For example Rust.

LeFantome ,

It is currently written in C++. They are looking to switch to Swift.

They looked into Rust but decided that GUI work was a pain and that they wanted something more object-oriented.

mostlikelyaperson ,

“More performant” citation needed. Very well written Rust might be extremely fast, yes, but Rust is also a hard language to get right. Swift is far from a slow language and I would not be surprised if the average rust programmer barely if at all manages to beat out the average swift programmer in terms of speed. As for the amount of programmers interested, hard to tell, but given the sheer amount of Swift devs I’d not be surprised if there were quite a few interested ones and I am unconvinced Rust programmers are statistically more likely to be interested in Browser development.

EveningNewbs , (edited )

Citation granted.

TerkErJerbs , (edited )

Shopify (i.e. Shittify) being their top donor already has me looking sideways at this project. They’ll invest in anything they think they can get an edge with and if something starts to happen they’ll fuck it up and wallstreet-ify it as fast as possible if they can.

Their (Shopify’s) guru founder Tobi made a huge NFT play that went absolutely nowhere while I still worked there. They spent a lot of time and money on it, right before they laid several thousand people off.

Asudox ,
@Asudox@lemmy.world avatar

Oh great. Now I’m losing hope in this project even more.

TerkErJerbs ,

I mean I hope Ladybird devs do a great build and go their own way without being corrupted by their donors and all that, don’t get me wrong. But whenever I see that dumb shopping bag logo I get the no feelings.

You can also read up on how the vast majority of Mozilla’s funding has been coming from Google for a very long time, and draw your own conclusions from that fact.

ProgrammingSocks ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    TerkErJerbs ,

    You may have misunderstood. It was Shopify who did the big NFT play on their platform. I don’t know much about the Ladybird team, I’m not trying to throw shade on them.

    ProgrammingSocks ,

    Gotcha

    SpeakinTelnet ,
    @SpeakinTelnet@sh.itjust.works avatar

    While I agree shopify has a kind of “mierda touch”, I still see it as if it goes sideways with them someone will just fork the code.

    TerkErJerbs ,

    True

    Aatube ,

    I agree that it's not ideal, but hey, it's open source, and the Louis Rossmann cult is the only other top-tier donor, so I'm sure they'll be fine.

    NegativeInf ,

    Shoulda built it in Julia.

    dataprolet ,
    @dataprolet@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    The devs have some problematic views, mainly transphobic and misogynistic.

    data1701d ,
    @data1701d@startrek.website avatar

    Also, the use of AI-generated images on their website.

    anindefinitearticle ,

    Sauce?

    Bitrot ,
    @Bitrot@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    Lunduke is an ass, but I don’t think he’s wrong in this case. Typical internet bandwagoning: …locals.com/…/ladybird-web-browser-developer-atta…

    todd_bonzalez ,
    @todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee avatar

    So you agree with the idea that submitting a “minor nitpick” PR suggesting that the software doesn’t refer to all users as male is “personal politics” and deserves an angry response for even suggesting it?

    You sure do sound like someone who would agree with Lunduke…

    Being a woman or being transgender isn’t “political”. Vocally opposing inclusiveness is asshole behavior.

    Not even mad that he’s not accepting a low-effort PR. It’s trivializing people’s existence as “political” that makes him shitty.

    Bitrot ,
    @Bitrot@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    Making a low effort argument against a straw man that was never stated. You sure you aren’t a conservative?

    No, I disagree with the idea of digging into years of history to drag up the one thing to be mad at and bandwagon over with a loud mob with surface level care that move onto the next bandwagon in a week. Typical to Twitter behavior. Doesn’t actually help anyone, typically hurts the movements they claim to support among everyone else.

    I’m about the farthest from Lunduke you can get, he’s just not wrong in this specific instance. You don’t know me, “you sure do sound” is a silly attempt at internet games. Yawn.

    priapus ,

    It wasn’t right for people to bandwagon and harass the project, but that doesn’t mean he was right for closing this PR in the way he did. Him closing this PR is what caused the project to be attacked, not part of the attacks.

    Bitrot ,
    @Bitrot@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    Years later is ridiculous and unwarranted, it’s looking for someone to attack.

    sweatersocialist ,

    i don’t even want to click your link because it says “unhinged dishonest activists”. i have literally only ever heard the worst people with the worst opinions ever say shit like that.

    TechnicallyColors ,

    From last time. TL;DR real weird vibes. This is a PR where you say “oops, that makes sense”, click merge, and go on living your life. Not whatever this ended up being.

    anindefinitearticle ,

    Upgrading to gender neutral language is important.

    Having a reflex to avoid politics, especially when you live in an environment where concepts like gender aren’t discussed, is understandable. It’s an attempt to do no harm that doesn’t have the expected impact. It still causes harm because simple problems like gendered language are treated with an allergic response. This is what happens when conservatives hyper-sensitize well-meaning people on social topics. Considering the world we live in, you can’t expect everyone to know how to flawlessly navigate these issues on the first try.

    Their policy of “no politics” was misguided, but understandable. Everything is political. It was fashionable for decades to pretend otherwise. Many people grow up in an environment that ignores social topics. They need to be accepted into spaces where social topics are discussed, not immediately ostracized for not knowing the rules to a game they are new to.

    I would like them to neutralize gendered assumptions in their documentation and learn from the experience, but that can only happen if they aren’t ostracized from the community. I want to give them a chance to learn and improve to disrupt Google’s unhealthy monopoly in the browser space.

    The PR in question is also in error. It claims that the documentation assumed the gender of the user or the developer. A close reading of the requested commit reveals that the documentation instead assumes the gender of an example user named “anon” whose permissions are being altered. The documentation’s use of gender is in using a male as an example user needing their privileges deescalated. Still problematic, of course: not only men need their privilege checked from time to time.

    LeFantome ,

    Where do you guys get the energy to keep up these smear campaigns?

    mypasswordis1234 ,
    @mypasswordis1234@lemmy.world avatar

    transphobic? even better! 😃

    Aatube ,

    Sounds fun, but I wish there were more people who'd invest in making Firefox's Gecko more easy to use (stretch goal: revive Proton, which is Electron but Firefox) instead of pushing a ton of effort into inventing a new thing.

    That said, this is coming from SerenityOS (specifically, the founder and basically the entire community concentrating on building its browser instead of hacking the OS, resulting in a split), so I understand that it might be a lot harder to port large codebases to a new OS instead of than starting a new one.

    IrritableOcelot ,

    Well we wouldn’t want Proton, it would be 2000x less lightweight than electron! /s

    It seems to me that Tauri is maybe a better direction to invest resources in than a direct electron-but-Firefox. Its lighter weight and better sandboxed, and can presumably be configured to run with a Gecko engine instead of a chromium-based webview. I have no idea its status, but geckoview does seem to exist.

    jaxiiruff ,

    Servo hype

    slacktoid ,
    @slacktoid@lemmy.ml avatar

    Hot take: Since it’s a BSD licensed browser at some point in the future, there’s going to be a company that funds it brings it to mainstream with their flavor, and then will over throw chromium in time. Replace an ‘evil’ with another ‘evil’.

    dsilverz ,
    @dsilverz@thelemmy.club avatar

    It’s interesting to see a new browser engine aside from Gecko and Chromium, especially with all the conundrum surrounding the Manifest v2 support.

    possiblylinux127 ,

    I want manifest 3.2

    possiblylinux127 , (edited )

    Repost but still cool

    Also I am surprised at how many sponsors there are and how many industries are represented. The project isn’t that old

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