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Finally coming around to using Linux. How's it on a tablet?

I’m 43 and not really starting using Linux. I’ve dabbled with distros on and off over the years, but I never made the full switch because work always had some program or policy that just wouldn’t play nice with Linux. With all the crappy Microsoft decisions, bloatware, and ads I decided to try and use Linux exclusively on a personal device, and I’m absolutely loving it!

I’ve been working with Ubuntu as my main distro, and I’ve also been playing around with distros on a Raspberry Pi. To really challenge myself, I installed Linux on an old Surface Pro 3, and guess what? It just works! I was pleasantly surprised by how smooth the setup was and how well it performs.

I missing any key steps or tips to make the experience even better on a Surface? Any insights would be greatly appreciated. I was planning to buy a new tablet that runs Linux but this is working better than expected. I’m really enjoying the flexibility and control Linux offers and want to keep this momentum going.

I have read up and tried plenty, just looking for some perspectives out there specific to your tablet experiences.

EDIT Thank you for all the suggestions and insights! I’m going to continue using the Ubuntu build for the next few months. Still lots more to learn, but I’m excited to see how this goes. I have everything setup I need to function as a Linux only tablet experience. <sigh of relief> no more dependency on Windoze.

Ranger ,

I’ve been using Linux mint on a tablet & it’s been good so far. Ironically the windows tablets are particular easy to put Linux on.

Rooskie91 ,

I had great success installing fedora on a Microsoft surface. It ran better on Linux than it did with windows lol.

zelifcam ,
@zelifcam@lemmy.world avatar

Is there a DE with an onscreen keyboard that can be used in the terminal?

The onscreen keyboard used with Plasma (steam deck as well) is missing CTRL and other keys needed when navigating a terminal. It also fails to pop up on electron apps.

Abdoanmes OP ,

Sounds like it’s a bust to use terminal on a tablet. Damn.

lemmyvore ,

You can get a small Bluetooth keyboard. They make them really tiny, for this exact use case (smartphones and tablets).

Since this is a Surface you can probably find one that’s been specifically designed to integrate with it (act as a cover).

ILikeBoobies ,

Gnome is the go to for accessibility but it has a phone-like keyboard

This extension

extensions.gnome.org/extension/…/enhanced-osk/

Gives the full pc keyboard

zelifcam ,
@zelifcam@lemmy.world avatar

Thanks, I’ll give it a look.

Salix ,

Unfortunately, it doesn’t work on GNOME 46 yet. But looks like the porting is almost done!

github.com/cass00/enhanced-osk-gnome-ext/pull/15

anon5621 ,

Phosh

Michal , (edited )

I use ThinkPad X1 yoga with Fedora 40 (Gnome)

  1. Enable fractional scaling and install Display scale switcher gnome extension - makes it easier to increase scaling when in tablet mode for easier touch input.
  2. logging in on a touchscreen can be a pain, in particular entering the password with on-screen keyboard. Special characters and numbers are not shown by default. On windows you have the option to use pin instead with a numeric keyboard. If you have a fingerprint reader compatible with linux that might work for login (mine doesn’t).
  3. Linux is very terminal-oriented, but Gnome terminal is unusable on a tochscreen. never mind typing commands - try scrolling long outputs - you can’t scroll with touchscreen, it will just start selecting text (i dont remember how this works in Windows)
  4. Google chrome supports gestures, so you can swipe left/right on the page to navigate back/forward. This does not with Firefox. Chrome also has a more touchscreen-friendly UI you can enable in chrome://flags/#top-chrome-touch-ui (Touch UI layout) although I haven’t noticed a significant difference.
  • while you’re messing with google flags you may want to change Preferred Ozone platform to Wayland - this fixed blurry scaling for me
Abdoanmes OP ,

I was looking at Lenovo and this is good input. It sounds like everyone is not a fan of the tablet keyboard and the terminal is straight bollocks no matter the distro. I keep hearing Fedora and Wayland. I’m going to have to learn about them a bit more.

Michal ,

If you’re planning to get the 3rd gen x1 yoga, don’t. I had to disable thunderbolt ports in BIOS to get it to sleep correctly. Otherwise touch screen would not work after wake. And stylus doesn’t work correctly with Wayland. It stops working after few seconds of use.

rainerloeten ,
@rainerloeten@lemmy.world avatar

I only know that I was pleasantly surprised how well GNOME ran on a surface device of a friend.

Abdoanmes OP ,

Yeah, me too. It just works!

t0mri ,

You use fedora lemmy.world/post/16899331

sic_semper_tyrannis ,

You can try Fedora on a Surface with the Ublue variants such as Aurora and Bluefin, there are ISOs specifically for the Surface. Fedora atomic variants work very well. I found Fedora Kinoite works great with a touchscreen laptop.

just_another_person , (edited )

Y’all need to really stop recommending immutable distros to people who aren’t even familiar or know what their regular setup will be. Like this poster who even said they are still going to have to work out Windows alternatives.

capital ,

I think I disagree.

After using Bazzite, if I had to set something up for my mom, it’d be Aurora.

Updates are dead simple and most of what she would use would be flatpaks anyway.

They seem like a rock solid way to get into Linux with a low chance of breaking something.

just_another_person ,

For someone who just does web browsing, sure. That is not the question or ask of this post. Read my comment again.

capital ,

Hm… immutable distros are alternatives tho?

And did you just downvote me for politely disagreeing?

just_another_person ,

I downvoted because your comment had nothing to with the context of this thread or my comment, and just served to be an “AKSHUALLY ☝️” moment for yourself.

capital ,

Ahh. You’re just a prick. I get it now.

just_another_person ,

Button is there for a reason. If you’re just interjecting with nonsense, it should be downvoted.

capital ,

It was on topic and made perfect sense. What’s funny is that it was in response to you saying”AXSHHALLY you guys shouldn’t suggest immutable distros” because those don’t count as Windows alternatives for reasons?

If you’re gonna be a prick, at least be correct.

just_another_person ,

Friend, you’re so up your own ass, you didn’t even read OP’s post. He wasn’t asking for your ill informed recommendation for a distro…

Why don’t you read it again?

capital ,

Buddy, I did read it. Allow me to quote in case the OP is too long for you:

I missing any key steps or tips to make the experience even better on a Surface? Any insights would be greatly appreciated.

Dude is distro hopping and wants general input. Please fuck off.

just_another_person ,

He says he has Ubuntu installed and is loving it, and just asking if there’s any other things to round out a tablet experience.

You: ☝️ “why don’t you completely change the thing that is working for you, and even though you didn’t ask, do what I’m suggesting you do because I like it, and it works for my mommy who just uses the web browser. Also, if anyone disagrees with me for evangelizing and giving unsolicited advice, I’m going to call them a prick and argue with them because I’m just special” ☝️ 😤

capital ,

I hate how OP is gonna have to do whatever we say :(

That really sucks. I super wish they could just go on using whatever they want :(

just_another_person ,

I’m sure they wish that too, instead they have people like you just throwing your own BS around a thread where they’re trying to ask for honest suggestions. Sucks.

capital ,

Ok I don’t actually know if you’re just joking or neurodivergent so as not to not pick up on the sarcasm.

OP can do whatever the fuck they want on their device. The worst thing that can happen if they don’t like the suggestion is to close the single extra tab they opened on their browser to read about it.

But thank Christ you were here to save him from that catastrophe.

Abdoanmes OP ,

I hate that this post caused a fight here. I appreciate feedback and learning.

If I’m taking something away from this exchange is that immutable distros are a thing I need to understand better. In a way you are both helping me see some other aspects I haven’t considered. If I were to go immutable there are some limits on what I can do, though there are some benefits in terms of security and app containerization. Based on some quick research immutable distros have been around but honestly I didn’t really know any details. On the other hand it sounds like Ubuntu pushes packages my way and I might want want to explore so other options.

Thanks for the insights and I plan to do a lot more research on how I might proceed. I may have it working on one device, but adopting what is right for my workflow and needs is going to take some more effort. Best.

poki ,

Hi. I’m not related to either of the two fighters. I do, however, admire your curiosity. Still, I feel a particular sentence made in this comment of yours has to be nuanced. If this endeavor of mine is not appreciated, then please feel free to notify me however you please.

So, without further a due.

If I were to go immutable there are some limits on what I can do

Strictly speaking, yes.

However, we can categorize these as follows:

  • Absolutely impossible to accomplish on some ‘immutable’ distros
  • Currently impossible to accomplish on some ‘immutable’ distros. However, it will be fixed eventually.
  • Currently impossible to accomplish through conventional methods on some ‘immutable’ distros. However, some experimental features do allow these to be accomplished. But, you might have to learn how.

Furthermore, depending on your needs, you may not even have to deal with anything that’s either not or less supported.

Finally, as the use of “some ‘immutable’ distros” suggests, not all immutable distros are created equally. Therefore, it’s actually uninformed to lump all of them in the same category. True; they’re referred to as ‘immutable’. However, descriptions like atomic, reproducible and declarative are perhaps more useful when comparing one ‘immutable’ distro to the other.

I’m personally a big fan of ‘immutable’ distros. However, please don’t feel compelled to delve into it as long as you’re satisfied with your system.

My two cents. Enjoy!

Abdoanmes OP ,

I have been on Lemmy for awhile and this post has been the one to gain the most traction. Thank you, this helps even further. I scratched the surface of immutable and this further dissects it into deeper “categories”. My first thought is that, if I didn’t know about immutable distros in the first place (aside from the meaning of the term), I probably wouldn’t know what I’m missing or gaining.

My uses for Linux will grow across 3 categories.

  1. Business and office work. Mainly spreadsheets, documents, presentations, and virtual meetings
  2. 3D Design, 3D Printing, bitmap and vector graphics editing, coding, and retro video game development
  3. Streaming via OBS, ATEM, webcam, HDMI capture, and various USB inputs and devices.

I have tried building machines on non-tablets and have got 80% of the way there with all 3. The tablet has me 100% with 1 & 2. This all gives me a greater understanding that helps me avoid and research more into the options based on needs.

poki , (edited )

Thank you for your reply!

Thank you, this helps even further.

It has been my pleasure 😊!

I scratched the surface of immutable and this further dissects it into deeper “categories”.

Yup. For your information, ‘immutable’ distros have only gained popularity relatively recently. In fact, for a long time, it was pretty obscure.

In 2003 we had the initial release of our first ‘immutable’ distro; NixOS. Then, inspired by it, Guix System was released in 2012. After which, within a couple of years, the distros with connections to enterprise Linux got their first ‘immutable’ distros:

  • Fedora in 2014 with Fedora Atomic Host (later CoreOS)
  • Ubuntu in 2016 with Ubuntu Core
  • openSUSE in 2017 with openSUSE MicroOS

However, these three were primarily meant for server and/or IoT. Then, in 2018, Fedora released Fedora Atomic Workstation (which later changed its name to Fedora Silverblue). I’d argue we owe the current renaissance of ‘immutable’ distros to it. And then, inspired by Fedora Silverblue, we’ve had the release of dozens of 'immutable’ distros in the last 2/3 years (including openSUSE MicroOS Desktop (later openSUSE Aeon) in 2021). Ubuntu has yet to release their Ubuntu Core Desktop. Though, it’s in active development.

However, even if we’d limit ourselves to the earlier mentioned ‘immutable’ distros (i.e. Fedora Atomic, Guix System, NixOS, openSUSE MicroOS and Ubuntu Core), we find that they’re very different to one another. Heck, by comparison, e.g. Arch, Debian, Fedora, openSUSE and Ubuntu aren’t actually that different to each other.

Though, perhaps curiously, we find that at least 80% of the user base of ‘immutable’ distros are using either Fedora Atomic (and/)or NixOS.

My first thought is that, if I didn’t know about immutable distros in the first place (aside from the meaning of the term), I probably wouldn’t know what I’m missing or gaining.

Exactly.

My uses for Linux will grow across 3 categories.

  1. Business and office work. Mainly spreadsheets, documents, presentations, and virtual meetings
  2. 3D Design, 3D Printing, bitmap and vector graphics editing, coding, and retro video game development
  3. Streaming via OBS, ATEM, webcam, HDMI capture, and various USB inputs and devices.

As far as I can tell, none of these should necessarily bring up problems or troubles on ‘immutable’ distros.

To give an example of something that’s not or less supported on ‘immutable’ distros: Unified Kernel Image with Secure Boot.

AFAIK, openSUSE Aeon can do it currently. But IIRC, there’s no documentation. NixOS can actually do it as well and there’s plenty of documentation on it. Fedora Atomic can’t yet, but there’s active development surrounding it. However, I don’t expect this feature on the smaller ‘immutable’ distros. Hence, for them, I’d regard this as absolutely impossible.

I have tried building machines on non-tablets and have got 80% of the way there with all 3. The tablet has me 100% with 1 & 2.

I’m glad to hear that!

This all gives me a greater understanding that helps me avoid and research more into the options based on needs.

Great! FWIW, if there’s anything to take from this interaction, then it’s definitely this.

Abdoanmes OP ,

Thank you so much for your time. The amount of effort in your response is amazing and rich with details!

poki ,

That’s the most wholesome reply I’ve had in some time. Thank you for making my day! I appreciate it 😊!

Abdoanmes OP ,

Thanks for these insights. From my laymen experience with Linux, I am a bit fuzzy on all the distros and variants. What’s the major difference between Ubuntu (or whatever distro) and what you described? From your perspective

sic_semper_tyrannis ,

You’re welcome. I find Fedora to be much more up to date and refined than Ubuntu but also very stable still, at least the atomic variants as those are what I use. Also Ubuntu has all the controversy about trying to force their own packages at you as well as other things

luciddaemon ,

I’ve been messing with linux on my xps tablet. It mostly works well, I just hate the onscreen keyboards right now. Maliit lacks documentation and modifier buttons, squeekboard doesn’t scale to larger screens unless you manually build a dev branch, and wvkbd doesn’t hide/respond to input boxes.

As for UI, I love plasma mobile personally. For other touch friendly UIs theres: gnome mobile, phosh, and hyprland + gesture plugin.

PumpkinEscobar ,

I’ve been tempted to try and install plasma mobile on a tablet.

Ringmasterincestuous ,

My Surface Pro 4 (my last remaining windows install) is soon to suffer this fate… not the Linux install, but having me just touch it in weird places… for no real apparent reason 😈

apfelwoiSchoppen ,
@apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world avatar

You might want to look at Surface Kernel for Linux. The link below shows their matrix of features on various Surface products and support within the Surface for Linux kernel. You would install Ubuntu and then install these updates to make Surface hardware function better. They have a lot of bespoke hardware in their laptops and tablets that aren’t supported by the Ubuntu Linux Kernel out of the gate. github.com/…/Supported-Devices-and-Features#featu…

Abdoanmes OP ,

Ok this is getting to the question I had. I found a few YouTube videos that went into detail about updating the kernel. I was wondering what’s the purpose when it was working as well as it has. I’m going to try to do this and follow the guides. Initially I had to overcome a BitLocker issue and a bug where I couldn’t overwrite the partition. Once I finally got Ubuntu running I was ready to dive into making it touch compatible, but it was already there. I suspect this makes it even better

apfelwoiSchoppen ,
@apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world avatar

If it works well for you, don’t worry about it. The matrix will show what kind of support improvements you might expect over the standard kernel.

ShittyBeatlesFCPres ,

I don’t have Linux on a tablet right now but my first thought was that you might want to check into what Steam Deck users are doing with “Desktop Mode.” It has a touchscreen and virtual keyboard so it’s essentially a tablet-like experience (though it has touchpads and a few buttons, obviously, and isn’t a tablet). It runs KDE by default, which I’m not as familiar with as Gnome, but it might have more users than any other GNU/Linux touchscreen product.

Last time I had a Linux tablet, there were also some Firefox/Chrome/Gnome extensions that made it more touch-friendly. Like instead of selecting text, one finger swipe scrolled, two-fingers zoomed in, etc. like a typical tablet. Not sure if that’s still an issue. But if you do run into an issue, it might already be solved by an extension.

Hopefully, someone has more up-to-date advice. The tablet I had (and probably still have in a drawer somewhere) was an experimental Ubuntu Touch device and there’s been huge strides since then.

Abdoanmes OP ,

Thank you, that gives me a direction to start researching. I’ve been wondering the experience and it seems like it has been developing.

lung ,
@lung@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t think tablets are fully supported but I see gnome devs continuing to make steady progress there. Stoked for a future where (real) open source catches up to phones and tablets, we are close…

Abdoanmes OP ,

Ok, that makes sense. I suppose a Surface Pro is still kinda a computer with a touchscreen. Overall I was impressed with how smooth the experience was and look forward to it developing.

The_Picard_Maneuver ,
@The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world avatar

Whoa, I don’t know why I’ve never considered Linux on a tablet. I have a couple that are gathering dust in a closet, and if this is doable, it sounds like a fun project!

Abdoanmes OP ,

On this Surface Pro, touch, rotation, and even the pen is working! I didn’t expect it to just work and it is.

The_Picard_Maneuver ,
@The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world avatar

The pen?! Damn, that’s impressive.

The one I might use is a an old Galaxy Note. I wonder if I’ll have similar luck.

just_another_person ,

There’s a big difference between an Android tablet and a PC tablet…

The_Picard_Maneuver ,
@The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world avatar

Am I getting my hopes up for nothing? =(

just_another_person ,

Well all the Linux distros you see being discussed in this thread for PCs. There’s a much wider array of driver support in the kernel for x86 related hardware. ARM tablets, especially Samsung devices, have speciality hardware. Honestly, you’ll be lucky if you can get past any bootloader issues on a Samsung.

lord_ryvan ,

Honestly, you’ll be lucky if you can get past any bootloader issues on a Samsung.

It was honestly trivial to wipe Samsung’s and install LineageOS on a Galaxy Note 10+ and a Galaxy Tab 7. The bootloader isn’t much of an issue.

Now, getting a random Linux system to install, rather than an Android system designed for these, sounds live a huge challenge.

just_another_person ,

You may not have been carrier or region locked. Most are.

KrapKake ,

Probably, android devices and especially Samsung can be locked down. I don’t know your model though I feel like there are 4,327 variants of “galaxy note”.

i_am_hiding ,

I’ve been daily driving a Lenovo X230 tablet for the last four years. I use Xournal++ to take notes with the pen in classes and at work. Works great!

Abdoanmes OP ,

Xournal++ is amazing! It’s really the reason a Linux tablet will work for me. I also appreciate using GB Studio and Aseprite with the pen. Makes retro game developing a lot more fun!

poVoq ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

Gnome works quite well on a larger touch-screen.

Abdoanmes OP ,

It worked immediately without much fuss. That’s why I was scratching my head. Was it always this easy!? I’m enjoying the experience so far

poVoq ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

Installing Linux on most hardware became really easy maybe 5 years ago.

Abdoanmes OP ,

What changed to make it happen? I am so done with other OS and Linux does everything I need. I really need to learn more about what’s happening and how to better use it so I can further customize and configure.

poVoq ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

Nothing specifically, just nice improvements cumulating over the years.

Pacmanlives ,

Lot of just general progress, Linux was so fringe when I started in 2002 compared to now. Most enterprise customers are using Linux the past 15 years and hardware venders are now seeing more and more Linux adoption. We can kind of thank Chrome a bit for that but also more people generally having an interest and using it and developing drivers for their hardware

Abdoanmes OP ,

It sure did. That’s why I was surprised. Thank you!

Michal ,

One annoying thing though is you can’t scroll terminal on a touchscreen, it’ll just start selecting text. Maybe there’s a non default terminal with touch support.

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