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dan ,
@dan@upvote.au avatar

Catching up to Opera circa 2006. Opera added this feature in Opera 9, released June 2006.

I still miss the old Opera. The Chromium-based version just isn’t the same.

FriendBesto ,

I still have a copy of Opera 12 on one of my old machines. Good times. Presto!

dan ,
@dan@upvote.au avatar

I wish it still worked well on modern sites. I used Opera from around 2000 until when they switched to Chromium in 2012ish. The first version I ever used predated the Presto engine. I used it for everything except web development (which I did using Firefox and Firebug) and sites that needed ActiveX (where I had to use IE).

These days I usually use Firefox, except I use Chrome for web development since its dev tools are a bit more responsive on complex sites compared to Firefox’s.

Templa ,

Tab groups dying in a ditch

PriorityMotif ,

How about if I go away from the mobile app and then go back into it, then it doesn’t reload the page I was just on. I can still see where I was until I click it, why do you need to reload it? Fuckin’ bullshit.

PrefersAwkward ,
@PrefersAwkward@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t see this behavior on android. Is it impossible that there is some kind of phone battery or memory usage process that’s causing the sessions to be discarded?

PriorityMotif ,

I just replicated it by opening a second app. It doesn’t seem to do it every time.

Blisterexe ,

Does discord happen to have similar behavior? Your phone may just be underpowered, I mean, so is mine.

planish ,

When the OS tells Android Firefox that the phone is running out of ram, it murders any tabs it thinks you might not be looking at, to avoid being murdered by Android for its ram.

pixelscript ,

My phone has this problem. It’s RAM.

My phone is literally never not using the full 8 GB it has, and it’s constantly juggling. Even when I have next to nothing open.

What’s eating it all? Fuck if I know. My phone also has a system memory leak that has eaten up 90% of the onboard storage with modem crash dumps I can’t delete without root, and this phone has no custom firmware to do that. Got what I paid for, I guess…

drathvedro ,

This was already a thing for ages until they killed it, but it is still possible if you are okay with tweaking userChrome.css

Why Mozilla wastes resources on their own implementation instead of providing API’s to third party developers is beyond me.

loics2 , (edited )

Your first link is based on XUL, which was deprecated because it was wasting resources being unmaintainable and insecure.

Here’s a great article about that

drathvedro ,

Admittedly, yes, XUL was a complete shitfest. Though I remember that it was more due to security patches and poor memory management that caused the apparent poor performance, not so much for addons. I was on waterfox classic at the time of writing of this article and had like 30 addons enabled, including TST, CRT, and TileTabs. all non-e10s-blocking, and, I assure you, it was just as fast(and slow) as quantum.

But, that’s besides the point. Customization, especially via addon’s, was one of the defining features of Firefox. Before, you had opera, which you could customize it within certain limits, Firefox if you want full control, and IE if you’re a dummy. Now, you have Vivaldi if you want customization within certain limits, Chrome if you’re a dummy, and Firefox is… just… not chrome? I’d say the addons should’ve been kept at all costs, maybe in a different way, without amputating the whole browser. But they did and it lost it’s appeal to a major portion of people. Of course there are still exclusive features like container tabs and min vid, but those are not exclusive to quantum either. The whole ordeal sounds just like that time when Yandex, in order to solve a support ticket overflow, just removed the contact support button.

Pantherina ,
@Pantherina@feddit.de avatar

This person said XUL is insecure! Any Palemoon users here? Anyone wanting to tell them that Mozilla is totally taking away user Freedom and that Palemoon is a totally secure Browser? XD

ILikeBoobies ,

Shhh, they’ll hear you

ilinamorato ,

Tab. Groups.

MashedTech ,

Yes

drivepiler ,

Not a fan of Edge, but absolutely love the tab groups. Use them at work all the time.

ZombieMantis ,
@ZombieMantis@lemmy.world avatar

Tab groups, vertical tabs, synced Workspaces. I’ve hacked together most of it, but being able to have separated pages of tabs synced through my account would be a godsend. Only thing keeping me on MS Edge.

ilinamorato ,

I don’t know why I never vibed with vertical tabs, but I’ve just never been able to make it work mentally. And I could see a double-edged sword with synced workspaces (I think having a button to click and see open tabs on other devices is a perfect middle ground). Personally, tab groups is the only thing I miss from Chromium. I used the feature for grouping, but also for labeling tabs: “Check back Tuesday,” or “Don’t forget to follow up,” or whatever. If they gave us tab groups and then never updated Firefox again, I think I would be pretty happy.

EDIT: well okay not happy, but I would be satisfied with the browser we ended up with.

Blisterexe ,

Do you mean never updated, or never adding new features? Because Firefox would be unusuable within 6 months because of how the web works if it stopped being updated

ilinamorato ,
  1. Yes, I was speaking hyperbolically.
  2. My hyperbole also presumes that Gecko continues to be updated, though the browser would get no further updates.
  3. This hyperbolic hypothetical is truly impossible, since Firefox is open-source. It would continue to be maintained by SOMEone.
  4. Six months might be a bit pessimistic. It might start being less reliable within six months, but the pace of WHATWG RFCs has been dwindling gradually since the mid-2000s. Honestly, I think operating system changes would be more likely to render Firefox’s codebase obsolete before web standards do.
Blisterexe ,

I get that you were being hyperbolic, I’m honestly not sure why I left my previous comment, you’re absolutely right

ilinamorato ,

If nothing else, you have given me the gift of “hyperbolic hypothetical,” so thank you for that

EmperorHenry ,
@EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

I’d rather have them work on fingerprint spoofing, and getting rid of the tracking from google they put into it

Librewolf, if you want to use a firefox based browser, use librewolf instead.

rekabis ,

I don’t care about any new tab features except making Tab Mix Plus work effortlessly in the current Firefox.

Right now it’s a game of restriction-whack-a-mole in trying to canopener Firefox into making TMP work again.

TMP is one of the main reasons why I still use any variant of Firefox.

0oWow ,

I love tab previews, but I would hate to give up vertical tabs for it. If they would implement vertical tabs + previews, I for one would be happy.

Anyone know a way to mimic Brave vertical tabs with preview? I can get close, but without preview images and that’s what I’m after.

fosstulate ,
@fosstulate@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

I want to view multiple tabs at once, in a split-page view where I can scroll on one tab, then mouse-over to another and start independently scrolling on that one. It’s probably the key feature I miss from Vivaldi. Is there some insurmountable obstacle in the engine that prevents implementation, or is it stubborn devs?

interdimensionalmeme ,

You can do this easily with Tile Tabs WE addons.mozilla.org/en-CA/firefox/…/tile-tabs-we/Works great, I’ve been using it for years

Example

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/687bf614-86d7-4b7c-aa77-65f0ebc8627b.png

You can also use FancyZone part of the opensource microsoft power toys

example

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/bf9c997e-8810-4a79-880b-c53b1a693f40.png

What I want is a better version of Tab Manager Plus in Own tab mode that can handle more than 1500 tabs and 30 windows without glitching as much

Sina ,

This is not even close to the worst thing they have ever done, but stuff like this is a waste of resources. People mostly want official vertical tabs and more than anything engine performance improvements. (and the ability to pretend to be Chrome in Youtube)

onlinepersona ,

engine performance improvements

Absolutely. Firefox is so slow compared to Chrome. Switching tabs, scrolling, video calls, … sure. Sure, Chrome/Chromium is a memory hog, but come on Mozilla, just invest in Servo already and stop adding useless features.

kilgore_trout ,

Firefox desktop performance is on par with Chromium. Also Servo is now a project under the Linux Foundation, and likely Mozilla Corp doesn’t have enough employees to contribute to external projects.

onlinepersona ,

Firefox desktop performance is on par with Chromium.

Mate, I don’t know what kind of beast or toaster you have as a machine, but my experience tells me otherwise.

Also Servo is now a project under the Linux Foundation, and likely Mozilla Corp doesn’t have enough employees to contribute to external projects.

Yes, Mozilla fired the entire Servo team and gave their previous CEO a raise during the pandemic. They can still pivot and focus on Firefox instead of whatever other stuff they have been doing.

CC BY-NC-SA 4.0

vanderbilt ,
@vanderbilt@beehaw.org avatar

Same. Install Firefox on a ChromeBook, which are almost all universally low powered, then watch it chug.

I don’t care how long the former CEO has been involved with the foundation, she has not been good for Mozilla.

TheAnonymouseJoker ,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

Good morning, babe! Servo ended ages ago, and a lot of the performance improvements from it got absorbed into Quantum as l10n and Rust code. I was alpha testing Servo back in the day.

okamiueru , (edited )

I miss the days with Opera. Not only could it group tabs, but it had previews too. Mouse gestures. Keyword searches. Page link filters and batch operations. RSS-reader. Chrome didn’t even exist back then, and IE and Firefox are still playing catch up. Kinda amazing to think about it.

Vivaldi is the spiritual successor, but having to use chromium rendering engine, it’s so many concessions and steps back. Has the mouse gestures, tho.

devfuuu ,

The gestures were amazing. Some are ingrained in my muscle memory after all these years.

oldfart ,

Same here. And the single-key shortcuts for switching tabs. Modern browsers don’t even come close.

Samueru ,

Brave has configurable keybinds, you can set any key you want to do anything.

However I still need to use the vimium extension to have proper keyboard only web navigation, because with the exception of qutebrowser none of the “popular” web browsers have the select link mode with the f key.

oldfart ,

I never got used to the f-key navigation, if i can’t use shift+arrows i fall back to mouse.

I don’t know, maybe Brave has this, unfortunately some time before Opera 9 and now I became one of these annoying people who only use FOSS.

Blisterexe ,

You can get the same in firefox (mostly) with the Gesturefy addon

smileyhead ,

Missing the days when developing a new browser was possible.

denast ,

I think many people in the comments suffer from some version of curse of knowledge.

Sure, this feature us quite irrelevant for a power user who is quick to navigate the browser and needs a split second to remember what tab it is simply by reading the header and seeing the icon.

However, many less proficient people can benefit from this feature. Not once I saw how someone who has 10 tabs open and needs to go to a different webpage, starts meticulously clicking through every single one of them because they have no idea how the page they are looking for is called, they are too overwhelmed by using web as a whole to take notice.

Tattorack ,
@Tattorack@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t understand how someone can have 10 or more tabs open. The times when I have “many” tabs open is when I’m looking for references while doing art, and that still hardly ever surpasses 5 tabs! XD

Mechaguana ,
@Mechaguana@programming.dev avatar

Currentky have 23 tabs open, 7 are youtube, 3 lemmies, and i guess the rest are docs I cant tell I’d greatly benefit from the tab previewer

denast ,

I think it’s much easier to have more than to have less. Most people I encounter have such a mess of pages in their browser, makes my hair stand on end. If we continue to approach this as an accessibility feature, it starts to make even more sense since tons of users have so many tabs they only see icons, not page names

KrapKake ,

I often get myself into a position where I have 50+ tabs open, but then I get annoyed with all the damn tabs and go on a purge… furiously clicking X on tabs down the line until I have it down to something manageable. This happens every couple of days. I wish there was a setting where one had the option of limiting themselves to x amount of tabs and if you hit the limit you know it’s time for a purge. I’ve seen where chromium browsers also have tab groups… I’m not sure if that helps for tab hoarding, I guess it could be more organized that way, but also sounds like it just enables more tab hoarding.

d0ntpan1c ,

Power users love to bash accessibility features like this. Its a classic case of “I don’t need a wheelchair ramp so i dont know why the library added one!”

Accessibility is way more than screen readers. It’s more than specific disability-minded modes. The web needs to be friendly to everyone, including people who may not know they could benefit from accessibility features. Everyone benefits from this type of work.

There are definitely some legit feature concerns and priorities being called out here. Mozilla has left a lot to be desired of late on that front. But a power user is more than capable of jumping into settings or about:config to turn things like this off, or finding an extension to get by for now.

Also the firefox dev team isn’t tiny. This isn’t blocking other work or anything in a substantial way, it’s a fairly isolated piece of UI, and there’s no guarantee that skipping this would change the timeline on anything else.

onlinepersona ,

How is hovering over a tab and waiting for a preview faster than clicking it?

denast ,

Again, in my opinion you approach the problem like a power user. Using a browser is not a speedrun where every millisecond matters. Here is why I think it provides more comfort to an average user:

  • No need to divert attention and look around the monitor. When you’re not well versed with a mouse, it’s easier to click and look at the same place
  • Nothing distracts you unlike when you click through pages. Imagine going from dark theme page to a light theme page, the entire screen suddenly lights up
  • Depending on the way it is implemented (perhaps by keeping compressed page screenshots?), it might be faster to show a preview than to render the page again on a weak machine
onlinepersona ,

I’m not sure how clicking can be considered “power user”… Had I said “just install tree style tabs, it’s much better”, you might’ve had a point, but you’re arguing that clicking is worse than hovering. Really can’t agree with you.

But hey, I don’t give money to Mozilla and the chance is very low that I ever will, so they can do what they want. If they think this is how they want to spend the 500 million they get from Google, that’s their prerogative.

CC BY-NC-SA 4.0

denast ,

I’m sorry, but did you… read my comment?

I didn’t say clicking is power user, I said that you assessing features in terms of speed (“Is hovering faster than clicking?”) is a power user approach. It’s deeper than just bare speed and accessibility features are not developed to provide physically faster experience, but one that is more comfortable for some group of users.

Hovering preview does not even take ability to click through tabs away, but could provide comfort for a user who is not as browser proficient, for the reasons I outlined above.

cashews_best_nut ,

Oh great. As if my life doesn’t have enough curses on it.

TheAnonymouseJoker ,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

Agreed. As a Netscape/Phoenix stan since late 90s, I sometimes do like the peeking feature on Ungoogled Chromium. Yes, I am a power user, but often I have one trillion tabs open with just the webpage tab icon barely visible, and need to check roughly what the tab is showing.

I would even propose there should be a very faint 1-2 pixel thick scrollbar so you can see how far you scroll on your hundreds of tabs left/right, similar to vertical tabs having a scrollbar for Tree Style Tabs.

FrankTheHealer ,

Have they ever said if vertical-tabs is a feature they will add? Vivaldi and Edge both support it by default and it’s awesome.

paholg ,

By vertical tabs do you mean tabs on the side instead of the top? If so, check out the tree-style tabs extension, it’s great.

FrankTheHealer ,

The extension is awkward to use imo. The way Vivaldi has it integrated for example is miles better and I really want to see Firefox do same.

westyvw ,

I find that Firefox manages tabs better. So eveb though i use side tabs on vivaldi, I prefer them on top in Firefox, and it’s just a keystroke away to see the list vertically, but not stay that way.

OfficerBribe ,

For what it’s worth vertical tabs is currently 3rd most rated suggestion

lud ,

I don’t see the point personally but I enabled it just because and while it does work it’s currently very slow for me. It takes around 1 sec for the preview to appear so finding something by moving the cursor quickly across the tabs is impossible unless you slow way down.

Vincent ,

From the article:

To control how fast/slow tooltips appear modify browser.tabs.cardPreview.delayMs. This is set to 1000 (milliseconds) by default, meaning tooltips only appear once you’ve hovered over a tab for at least a second.

lud ,

I saw that later, I guess I forgot to save the edit.

150 ms feels alright.

yesman ,

hover your mouse

gross

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