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TexMexBazooka ,

I mean it’s actually an interesting point though?

Men should be loved and cared for in a relationship too, not treated like shit by default.

abbadon420 ,

Well, I’m certainly not gonna teach my daughter to trust boys. That will lead to places I don’t even want to think about.

PP_BOY_ , (edited )
@PP_BOY_@lemmy.world avatar

Your daughter’s going to ignore your calls when she’s in college lol

Edit: … if she’s asleep! Stay safe yall and hug your family members

abbadon420 ,

Fuck you

PP_BOY_ ,
@PP_BOY_@lemmy.world avatar

Maybe my comment was a bit rude but please don’t teach your daughter to instantly distrust people based on their gender. That’s a recipe for undersocilization that’s going to fuck her up for a long time

abbadon420 ,

Maybe you’re not a nazi after all, lol. But I try to stay away from gender issues as much as possible, that’s not what this was about. It seems no matter what I say, it’s always offending someone’s gender. I’m sad to see it’s not possible to escape it though.

TriflingToad ,

yeah ok your daughter is always going to not answer your calls in college lol

tjsauce ,

Lol is everyone who pushes your buttons a nazi?

wreckedcarzz ,
@wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

And here we see the pinnacle of parenthood in full swing

PunnyName ,

And the cycle continues. Congrats on being a cog in a machine we’re trying to dismantle.

TSG_Asmodeus ,
@TSG_Asmodeus@lemmy.world avatar

This feels reductive. Are you seriously saying ‘trust boys’ is a message you should give girls right now? I have boys and girls, and I would never tell my daughter ‘yeah just default to trusting guys’ – hell she had issues with boys not understanding consent or bodily autonomy in elementary school.

And I 100% blame those of us around those boys, we’re the adults, but the fact is girls literally cannot afford to just trust men or boys on meeting.

We need to teach our boys and men to stop doing these things and then we can tell everyone to trust by default.

PunnyName ,

Yes. Trust boys. Because things happen at once, not in sequence.

forrgott ,

I’m not gonna teach my daughters who they are or are not supposed to trust. Because I will never teach my children what they should think, but rather how to think for themselves. I will encourage them to only trust individuals that prove themselves trustworthy, but again, that’s not my decision to make.

They’re not extensions of me; they are distinct, individual human beings. So I certainly hope you will not teach her to be distrustful; that leads to misery and pain, all in the pursuit of something that doesn’t belong to you and never will (her mind is her own, whether you like it or not).

Delphia ,

My guy, the motivation is right but the thinking is wrong.

You teach your daughter how to spot manipulative behavior, teach her how to stand up for and protect herself, teach your daughter how to respect herself AND others, teach her how to love herself AND others, teach her what a healthy relationship looks like…

Boys will be boys, they will be dumb and horny teenagers and they will try shit, even with the absolute best of dumb horny boy intentions, also teenage lesbians are quite keen on trying shit too. You need to teach them to spot the difference between their first love and someone telling them what they want to hear in order to go up their shirt.

Voyajer ,
@Voyajer@lemmy.world avatar

That’s what I thought the comments would be about but apparently he should just get called creepy instead.

roguetrick ,

Sir, this is a shit posting community.

Delphia ,

Dont act like this didnt happen on Reddit, serious discussion in spacedicks, dickjokes in worldnews…

Sonotsugipaa ,
@Sonotsugipaa@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Sir, Reddit is a shit posting community.

Delphia ,

always has been

Track_Shovel OP ,
@Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net avatar

Come here so I can taze you

TexMexBazooka ,

Yes pls

wreckedcarzz ,
@wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

That’s just estim on hard mode

HowManyNimons ,

I hope you aren’t treated like shit by default.

Zwiebel ,

Men are statistically treated worse than women (by both men and women), there’s papers on this

zero_spelled_with_an_ecks ,

Got some links to share?

moosetwin , (edited )
@moosetwin@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

yeah, aside from all, the, rape. Would you please share the papers you mentioned?

noteI am obviously not pro-misandry, I just think it’s ridiculous to say that men are statistically treated worse than women, when that is clearly not true.

wreckedcarzz ,
@wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

Males being raped is a very underreported and tragic occurrence. You can’t compare apples and oranges.

(I have friends who were raped and never reported or did anything about it, out of stigma, shame, or not expecting anything [justice] to come of reporting it)

flicker ,

I have female friends who never reported or did anything about it, out of stigma (what were you wearing? Were you asking for it? Are you faking?), shame (why was he able to get you alone?) Or not expecting justice to come of reporting it (you’ll ruin his life, it was a mistake, I’m sure you deserved it, we don’t have enough evidence.)

That pendulum swings both ways.

TexMexBazooka ,

I’m not by my partner. Never have been, that’s why I love her, she’s always been kind.

But she also carries some distrust and resentment towards mean-justifiably given trauma-that is sometimes directed at me, inadvertently I think. Which sucks and doesn’t make me feel great, but it also makes sense from her perspective and she’s not got an issue with me

TheSambassador ,

Isn’t that the status quo? I guess it’s not really fathers to daughters, but most women I know went through some amount of “here’s how to be a good wife” lessons from their mothers or family. I think women get a lot of “traditional gender roles” training that’s mostly about being caretakers.

Usually people putting forth this kinda “women should learn how to care for their man” attitude are coming from a conservative “traditional family values” position.

Really, we should be teaching people how to ask about and learn the needs of their partner, and how to determine your own needs and communicate those to your partner. Basic emotional intelligence stuff. It doesn’t have to be gendered at all.

gnygnygny ,

Violent and stupid response. Not even funny.

Wanderer ,

I think a lot of women get taught men are the enemy and that all bad things in life come from men and the patriarchy. But that’s all they really get taught.

It’s like when the kids in south park get taught about STDs and how if you don’t wear a condom you get STD. So the girls avoid the boys until they wear condoms 24/7. There is a lesson in there but if you only teach them something that impacts much less than a percentage of 1% you going to miss a whole lot of the puzzle and it’s going to fuck you up before you even start.

revelrous ,

I’m not going to argue which gender is the bigger victim of toxic masculinity. The bodies are stacked too high for me to see over. But please don’t say it impacts ‘much less than a percentage of 1%.’

Like, my father used to tie up my dog and whale on it with a belt when he was angry and that’s probably the least fucked-up-thing-your-dad-did story of my peer group. If you don’t think it’s affected you, you are either very lucky, or somebody who is long overdue to talk it out.

Wanderer ,

You think you spend more that 1% of your life interacting with toxic masculinity and the negatives of the patriarchy?

You either spend a lot of time around a lot of shitty people or it sounds like you got problems.

revelrous ,

I’d like to take ‘repression, and over-compensating’ for 500 Alex.

Wanderer ,

Wow good come back. You really showed me. No need to make make a good argument just quote a meme.

bluefrog420 ,

All people should be taught how to treat others regardless of their gender.

Track_Shovel OP ,
@Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net avatar

https://slrpnk.net/pictrs/image/73cc57ee-2790-498d-ba4a-7e5f1d0cd421.jpeg

SaharaMaleikuhm ,

Exactly. Everybody should be taught to leave me the fuck alone.

YarHarSuperstar ,
@YarHarSuperstar@lemmy.world avatar

Yes! Thank you. Not that people don’t have certain issues that may be somewhat gender specific but respect in general is first and foremost when it comes to how to treat others.

Melvin_Ferd ,

I’ve given my kids tasers and shown them your comment. That should do it /s

solsangraal ,

this might be the most bullshit statement i’ve ever heard in my life

from the day they’re born, girls are raised to submit to, obey, and make themselves the property of men and change their name to his. that’s only a few things in a long list of stupid bullshit that women have to deal with. i’m not surprised in the slightest when incels whine about “women aren’t throwing themselves at me every minute of every day!!!” but it’s never not funny

clark ,
@clark@midwest.social avatar

dont know why youre downvoted

Delphia , (edited )

Because the point the dude is making is valid if you take the misogyny out of it. That guy might be an absolutely sexist piece of shit I dont know.

But there are some very entitled women in the world, some women just dont realise that everything women DESERVE is a 2 way street. Ive broken up with women because they expect respect, gratitude and support from their partner in everything they do but give none of it in return.

I was a project car guy for a great many years and I had a girlfriend who complained about every dollar and hour I spent on it (despite me also doing the servicing and maintenance on her car) would say things like “When are you going to grow up?” Whenever I got excited about something for the car and (the moment I decided to break up with her) was when I finally buttoned up the last details on an engine swap and went into the house and said “Its FINISHED!” and she turned to a girlfriend she had over and said “Awww look, he thinks he is manly”

Now Imagine if my girl had come out to me and my mates working on the car and said “I got my hair done!” and I turned to the boys and said “Awwww look, she thinks she is pretty.” If I told her “I dont know why you bother” when she tried to cook or continually criticised her shopping and spending on clothes and makeup…

Men in a relationship deserve to be treated like a full and equal partner with feelings too.

Ilovemyirishtemper ,

You definitely have a point, and there are definitely women like the one you described in the world. Men 100% deserve to be treated with equality and respect. I’m sorry that you had that experience with your former partner. It’s a garbage, disrespectful move from someone who is supposed to have your back.

But your point does ignore the fact that a majority of women have been raised by parents and by society to be subservient to men. The person who posted this originally wanted to know why women aren’t taught how to treat men, but the fact is that we are. Constantly. Whether we want to be taught or not. Most of us have learned to do this so deeply that it’s second nature. Most of us don’t even remember learning it because that’s just the way that it is.

This is for a wide variety of reasons, but most of it boils down to men having control over the world for thousands of years and women trying to find the best way to survive and occasionally excel in a world made for and by men. Remember that we used to be (and often still are) considered property. It’s taken a really long time to get as far as we (women) have. My sex has only been able to vote in my country for 100 years. That’s not a lot of time to make major changes in public perception and major societal shifts. We’ve grown a lot, but these shifts come with growing pains.

If we lived in a world where women have to be taught how to treat a male partner well, that means that society isn’t doing the teaching anymore, and while yes, women should treat men with equivalent respect, it’s still a huge improvement societally that women don’t develop ingrained subservience. The woman that you previously dated sounds like part of those growing pains. Some people are always going to take things too far because the line had not previously been defined (even though the golden rule should be pretty common sense).

Conversely, men often have to be taught this because society doesn’t do the teaching. Society is cool with men following the status quo.

Does this give a woman a solid reason to treat another human like trash, no matter their gender? No. This is the big reason why I think feminism is so important. People hear that term and think it means pro-women only, but what it really means is equality for all genders. Full equality should be the goal even if it ends up hurting women a little. For example, one of the few privileges women have that men don’t have is in the courtroom. Women tend to have better outcomes because of biases about our weakness and innocence. Feminism would be working to dismantle something like that even if it gives women an advantage.

Equality is important, but understanding women’s historical growth and struggles is important, too. Women have been taught ad nauseum how to treat men well, but some women are going to make different choices. At the end of the day, I agree with you. I just want people to remember how hard the struggle was for women to get here, understand how far we still have to go to gain real equality, and respect the societal pressures that we deal with every day.

TSG_Asmodeus ,
@TSG_Asmodeus@lemmy.world avatar

Conversely, men often have to be taught this because society doesn’t do the teaching. Society is cool with men following the status quo.

I wanted to briefly add to this that in WW1, one of the primary concerns of frontline commanders was that the soldiers literally couldn’t take care of themselves. They couldn’t sew, cook for even themselves, clean their clothes properly. I remember a quote from one soldier saying that, to paraphrase, ‘back home mom does everything.’ And then goes on to mention feeling rather helpless when doing even basic things a person needs to do to survive.

So I’m sorry about this entire thread, and, well, this entire issue, to insert my Canadian background on said issue.

I can see how careful you’re being with what you posted, and frankly, I’m sad you have to do that. The fact is men have had it easier for most of our history, and they really hate looking at said fact. Do men have legitimate issues? Absolutely, and feminism addresses them all. ‘The patriarchy’ hurts men and women both.

So, yeah, thank you. :)

TSG_Asmodeus ,
@TSG_Asmodeus@lemmy.world avatar

I think you know why.

revelrous ,

I’ve been screamed at a lot for daring to sit at the short edge of a rectangular table while in the presence of a man. Does that count for father-daughter lessons? This thread is wild.

running_ragged ,

I don’t know what part of the world you grew up in, but that hasn’t been my experience at all. All the women I know have been brought up to know this is the old way, and any man who thinks along those lines is a man to avoid.

FiniteBanjo ,

Is the top guy somebody we should know or is he just creepy because of what he said? I do think it’s important to know how to deal with the opposite sex regardless of gender, personally, I would never just throw a child into the world to figure it out, and teaching wariness is just a part of that.

TachyonTele ,

He’s a verified twitter user. I think that says enough.

9point6 ,

Unironically can’t believe people are paying to tell on themselves these days

unexposedhazard ,

Taken out of twitter context, his message is actually completely valid imo. Everyone should learn how to treat everyone with respect.

Shiggles ,

Instead we chuckle at a message of violence and wonder why people get radicalized.

FiniteBanjo ,

We don’t, but that sounds like a lot of instances yeah. Especially Hexbear and other state run instances who are trying to intentionally radicalize the naive.

cRazi_man ,

Most parents/adults don’t know how to treat the opposite sex either though.

FiniteBanjo ,

I wager some experience is still better than none.

cRazi_man ,

A lot of changes is society have come up in the last couple of generations. Changes equality, sexual freedoms, modern parenting, men’s roles at home, women’s role at work, etc. Many of my parent’s generation really do not know the first things about changing roles and expectations of the sexes and what people of the current generation want. Most people I know of that generation are (mildly to extremely) socially conservative. I get along great with my parents and I happily welcome them to live with me for 5 months of every year… But I would never have the teach anyone in my generation the lessons from their generation (I do speak to them about these things out of interest, but more to talk about how different the culture is between or generations now).

FiniteBanjo ,

Alright, tell your kids it’s fine to fuck around with their bodies and people’s feelings and find out, then.

Being able to build trust and find lifelong companionship is a skill surely lacking in youth, but arrogance is clearly not.

cRazi_man ,

Ok

tjsauce ,

Your comment reads far more arrogant than the one you responded to.

FiniteBanjo ,

There is only one true good in this world, Knowledge.

And there is only one true evil.

PunnyName ,

As someone who’s worked in retail, a ton of people don’t know how to treat humans like anything other than objects.

don ,

The reply speaks more loudly than the original comment.

AI_toothbrush ,

The guy probably meant this in a misogininstic way but theres a reason why theres a male mental health crisis… not only are other people not taught how to treat men, men themselves dont know either

morgunkorn ,
@morgunkorn@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Someone call an ambulance… BUT NOT FOR ME!

UpperBroccoli ,

Better prep the burn ward!

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