Germans: what genocide?

EmperorHenry , 2 months ago

invidious.lunar.icu/watch?v=sacn_bCj8tQ

invidious.lunar.icu/watch?v=UjGK_cclZXI

onewaymars , 2 months ago

great meme OP or should i say groß meme!

lightnegative , 2 months ago

Everyone seems to be forgetting who started this in the first place.

Israel is sure as hell gonna finish it

lilsolar , 2 months ago

Everyone seems to be forgetting who started this in the first place.

Israel?

Neon , 2 months ago

try again

WaxedWookie , 2 months ago

Ah - You must be referring to the ones that funded and backed Hamas’s rise to power over the secular moderates with predictable results…

Israel.

budgard , 2 months ago

Israel?

endhits , 2 months ago

History didn’t start on Oct 7th.

sentinelthesalty , 2 months ago

Germany: “Fucking casuals, you call that a genocide!”

Mr_Dr_Oink , 2 months ago

I guess they have fairly high standards when it comes to genicide…

Ultragigagigantic OP , 2 months ago

In hindsight this should have been posted in the political meme section not here.

My apologies, I’m new to lemmy. Thank you for your patience yall, I’ll do better.

ComradeKhoumrag , 2 months ago

A shitpost’s a shitpost damnit

moon , 2 months ago

Can you blame them? This is what happens when you use the metric system

A_Chilean_Cyborg , 2 months ago

Imperial coping™

cumskin_genocide , 2 months ago

They should just give all of Palestine to Israel and be done with it. Give the Palestinians reservations in the US or Canada and just let the Jews live in peace. It’s not like Israel is going to cause any problems since it would have all of Israel for itself at that point.

MetaCubed , 2 months ago

Ah yes, complete the ethnic cleansing of the region… What a wonderfully ethical suggestion /s

Absolutely deranged take.

woelkchen , 2 months ago

They should just give all of Palestine to Israel and be done with it.

It already is Israeli territory. There is no state of Palestine. Attempts to formalize statehood were vetoed by the US on Israel’s request. Israel opposes Palestinian statehood. There are two formally autonomous regions on Israeli ground, West Bank and Gaza, but those aren’t states.

Ultragigagigantic OP , 2 months ago

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/2a40c64a-a39b-4737-9545-56886044410f.jpeg

TheGunslinger , 2 months ago

I don’t agree with it, but at least people would stop being slaughtered like cattle.

VerbFlow , 2 months ago

Just give all of Israel to Palestine. It belongs to the Palestinian people. The former Israelis can live in Palestine–there were already Palestinian Jews–but they do not deserve an Israeli government, and ought to give the Palestinians their homes back.

VerbFlow , 2 months ago

Forgot to say: Is your username “cumskin_genocide”? I’m not using it as an argument, just amused

PiratePanPan , 2 months ago

germany really said

https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/f314e64b-0da6-4e69-8ef7-c115281fe7ea.jpeg

KillingTimeItself , 2 months ago

it took me way too long to figure out the joke on this one.

I’ll see myself out now.

SanndyTheManndy , 2 months ago

It would be genocide if they were targeting a particular ethnic group. And please remind me why it’s more important to spend UN session time trying to decide whether it it genocide and not, idk, actually taking actions to stopping the war?

lennybird , 2 months ago (edited 2 months ago)

They have tried to stop the war… With Ceasefire votes… That even the US no longer vetoes…

… Russia and China vetoed. Blame them:

Reuters - “Russia, China veto US-led UN resolution on Gaza ceasefire”

AP - “Russia and China veto US resolution calling for immediate cease-fire in Gaza”

The next best thing is that UN committees can investigate and identify genocide without it necessarily being vetoed. Once the UN and especially ICJ identify such genocide, that adds global pressure; such global pressure leads to supporters of Israel to reconsider holding Israel’s hands; hence why the US in an unprecedented move has stepped further away from Israel than it has for decades. People don’t understand just how closely-linked Israel and US have been. I never would’ve thought a sitting US President would say a bad word about Israel/Bibi without fear of major backlash. We’re certainly at an inflection point — and it’s about fucking time.

Edit: Also, let’s not all pretend we’re human rights lawyers who can definitively define what is and what isn’t genocide. If the ICJ took the case up and thought there was merit in the case, then one should probably hold their tongue; after all, according to the ICC:

First, the crime of genocide is characterised by the specific intent to destroy in whole or in part a national, ethnic, racial or religious group by killing its members or by other means: causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; or forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Note: National; note religious; note “whole OR in part” On the flip-side, then we’d have to say Hamas wasn’t carrying out an attempt of genocide with October 7th, since they killed Palestinian Muslims among the Jewish population.

It’s kind of a moot point. At this point Israel has committed something around 20 October 7ths in the number of civilian deaths they’ve incurred in Gaza. With an estimated 80:20 civilian-combatant death ratio according to US figures, that’s well-above average. Forgetting the fact that more aid workers have died in this war than any previous one in decades… This is a travesty. So the question remains: If we’re all pro-civilian and anti-terrorist… Even if Israel didn’t do anything in Gaza and just enhanced its border protections, then what are the odds when looking at it from a quantifiable standpoint Hamas would be able to commit another 20 (and counting) October 7ths? (forgetting the fact that even before October 7th the IDF committed the vast-majority of civilian casualties for decades).

Linkerbaan , 2 months ago

Russia and China never vetoed a ceasefire only an American bill that endorsed israel committing collective punishment.

lennybird , 2 months ago (edited 2 months ago)

That’s equivocation.

Reuters - “Russia, China veto US-led UN resolution on Gaza ceasefire”

AP - “Russia and China veto US resolution calling for immediate cease-fire in Gaza”

What kind of shady shit are you pulling to try to side-step the fact that this was, by definition, a ceasefire? Yes, China and Russia vetoed a ceasefire.

Also let’s not pretend Russia and China are acting out of humanitarian interest.

(Also, choosing between no ceasefire and Israel committing collective punishment, or a ceasefire and israel committing collective punishment — welp, I’d surmise the latter is better.)

graymess , 2 months ago

No, the US resolution was distinctly bullshit and did not call for an immediate ceasefire. The previous resolutions that the US vetoed did. Let’s not pretend the US proposed this version of a resolution out of humanitarian interest.

lennybird , 2 months ago

“Russia and China veto US resolution calling for immediate cease-fire in Gaza”

Russia and China on Friday vetoed a U.S.-sponsored United Nations resolution supporting “an immediate and sustained cease-fire” in the Israel-Hamas war in Gaza

???

graymess , 2 months ago

It’s a misleading headline, whether deliberate or not. Read the context of the resolution. It was a highly conditional ceasefire proposal that would require Gaza to give up all hostages while Israel would be permitted to continue controlling the region. Not immediate and clearly untenable for Palestinians. The US submitted the proposal knowing it would not pass just so they can act like they’re trying to negotiate peace, only being shot down by the usual bad guys. It’s a propaganda tactic and it’s clearly working.

lennybird , 2 months ago

I acknowledge your point and agree there is contradiction in AP and Reuters’ headline. On the other hand release of hostages is kind of a given to accept a sustained ceasefire. Hamas must come to the table in some capacity. After all, it isn’t really even the hostages that are preventing Israel from bombing Gaza into oblivion. And it isn’t the hostages that is spurring public outcry, but rather the death of Palestinian civilians already occurring. So anything that advances the protections of those civilians should be paramount, and that includes hostages.

Regardless it’s a moot point, for a ceasefire resolution

The text demanded “an immediate ceasefire for the month of Ramadan leading to a lasting sustainable ceasefire”. It also demanded the release of hostages but did not make a truce dependent on them being freed, as Washington had previously demanded.

Not sure I agree with that personally, nor that China and Russia are some sort of concerned humanitarian forces in the region, but alas.

graymess , 2 months ago

I agree with much of what you’re saying, as well. With Israel holding all the cards, I just find it worrying that Gaza would be forced to give up its one and only leverage. We’ve already seen that Israel does not care if hostages are involved when attacking a location. It’s hard to imagine how much more aggressive they will be when the risk of Israeli collateral damage is removed from the equation.

woelkchen , 2 months ago

They are targeting Palestinians, a particular ethnic group. That’s why they are executing unarmed civilians, too bad they got caught when they “felt threatened” by murdering shirtless fleeing Israeli hostages the soldiers thought were Palestinians.

“Gaza beachfront property” is already being carved up.

SanndyTheManndy , 2 months ago

21% of Israel’s population is Arab, but I don’t see them being rounded up for the gas chambers.

Neither are they attacking the eastern chunk of Palestine, which in ethnically identical.

This is a war between nations.

woelkchen , 2 months ago

So no gas chambers = no Palestinian genocide? That’s one hell of a leap.

Also West Bank Palestinians are being displaced and attacked by “settlers”. That’s another war crime.

Ascend910 , 2 months ago

Right now it seems like the effect of people who got bullied in the past is likely to bully people in the future

computerscientistI , 2 months ago

As a German: I think it really is not our job to criticise Israel/the jewish people. There are about 200 other countries that are capable of voicing their opinions. I seriously doubt Hamas left Israel much of a choice, though. They are still keeping and mistreating hostages. What is Israel supposed to do? Passively standing by and watching their hostages being impregnated?

Luccus , 2 months ago (edited 2 months ago)

As a German, I feel like, we should be capable of seeing 10th of thousands of people die, including reporters, aid workers and literal children, and fathom that this… is bad.

RustyShackleford , 2 months ago (edited 1 month ago)

What is Israel supposed to do? Passively standing by and watching their hostages being impregnated?

No, obviously not.

Killing international aid workers, Palestinian men, women, and children indiscriminately doesn’t seem like a viable solution either and calling everyone who criticizes your military policy “anti-Semitic” is not what you should do either.

hairinmybellybutt , 2 months ago

what about the genocide claim buddy bud

RustyShackleford , 2 months ago

Whatabout the hair in your butt?

hairinmybellybutt , 2 months ago

my butt hair is more on topic that your comment my guy

don’t forget to wear that keffiyeh!

RustyShackleford , 2 months ago

What the fuck is a “keffiyeh”?

smonkeysnilas , 2 months ago

But it’s not so simple and the media reporting is sometimes super biased and misrepresenting things. For example the aid workers that got killed. Before that happened the convoi got hijacked by Hamas fighters that actually started firing first. Somehow all the reports leave out that quite important detail.

www.ynet.co.il/news/article/hypzdd3ya

RustyShackleford , 2 months ago

But it’s not so simple and the media reporting is sometimes super biased and misrepresenting things.

Is the best military policy at that point to just wipe out the entire lot of them? Including the aid workers?

Also, I noticed you haven’t even acknowledged anything about the innocent men, women, and children that have been brutally killed on camera time and time again, for all the world to see, broadcast live, in some instances. Children are Hamas fighters now.

But who gives a shit, amirite? Every critical Goyim opinion is just Jew-hate now according to the Israeli government. They can do no wrong. Israel Uber Alles is the only opinion that is not “Anti-Semitic”.

smonkeysnilas , 2 months ago

No of course it is not the best policy, that’s not what I said. However it changes the story quite substantially in that a big share of the blame should be attributed also to Hamas. And leaving that part out is super dishonest.

I do acknowledge also the civilian casualties and it’s a tragedy of course. I was just pointing out one example of bad reporting and I’m sure if you look closely there are many more cases where civilians died mainly because Hamas was hiding among them. So if you mention the deaths I feel you can’t leave out that part. But mostly what I’m trying to say is it’s not black & white and there simply are no good options for Israel: either give in to Hamas human shield tactics (for which Hamas basically takes all of Gaza hostage) or accept civilian deaths. It’s a bad position and I don’t know the answer, but I can understand that letting Hamas get away with everything is also not an option.

RustyShackleford , 2 months ago (edited 2 months ago)

ALL OF THE ABRAHAMIC RELIGIONS AND THEIR MILITARY AND POLITICAL PROXY MOVEMENTS (THEIR PARTIES OF GOD) ARE ANTITHETICAL TO FREE AND OPEN SOCIETIES.

I’ve sufficiently “cleared my throat” now.

In my opinion, Hezbollah and Hamas are proxies for the Shiah Iranians to destabilize the normalization of Israeli relations with their Sunni neighbors. The zionists also benefit from the sundering of any lasting political stability.

The Hamas, the right-wing zionist movement, and the Netanyahu administration historically and currently enable each others barbarity. The Israeli government in this latest conflict has an order of magnitude (at least) of innocent blood on its hands, and my government (and others) enables that.

The CIA calls it “blowback”.

Hamas hiding amongst civilians doesn’t account for the slaughter I’ve seen, again, sometimes on live broadcast. There were four boys who were vaporized by the Israelis just recently. I saw zero Hamas hiding amongst them. I haven’t seen any videos of them with hostages, Kalashnikovs, or RPGs. But clearly they must have been Hamas fighters. Israel never gets it wrong!

Willfully or unintentionally, the objective is clear: in public discourse, use active agents and useful idiots to obfuscate. The Israeli government and its military cannot be seen as solely culpable for any situation even with evidence in individual cases pointing to the contrary. Any critique of Israel needs a “Whatabout _____________?”

A pox on both their houses certainly, but this time, Bibi’s first.

smonkeysnilas , 2 months ago

I agree with most of what you said. I’m not saying that the extend of the military campaign is justified or that the current balancing of objectives between saving civilians and fighting Hamas is fine and reasonable. Still to me indeed the current situation is not solely on Israel. The october attacks, the hostages and the rockets flying from Gaza to Israel are facts that did happen just as well as the killings of civilians in Gaza. We shouldn’t just ignore that.

nonailsleft , 2 months ago

That looks like a really objective website there

Linkerbaan , 2 months ago (edited 2 months ago)

"“The Jewish People” Germany really goes hard on their propaganda.

Those IDF rape fanfics sure go hard in Germany. Those rape accusations turned out to be false like the 40 beheaded babies.

The only party torturing their hostages and even cutting off their limbs is israel: Israeli doctor says detained Palestinians are undergoing ‘routine’ amputations for handcuff injuries

nednobbins , 2 months ago

It’s one thing to refrain from commenting but supporting Israel makes it clear that Germany learned nothing.

sudo , 2 months ago

None of the hostages were raped or are being raped. This is total Birth of a Nation, “They’re coming for our white women”_ bullshit.

zerog_bandit , 2 months ago

Hamas supporters so deranged that they’re trying to use the past to guilt today’s Germans.

Meansalladknifehands , 2 months ago

When you say Hamas supporter, do you mean netanyahu?

zerog_bandit , 2 months ago

Glad to see Germany addressing the conflict rationally, unlike half of Lemmy which just screams “genocide!” in every thread.

Still waiting to hear an explanation for why there are no Jews in Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Yemen, and Egypt, when there were historical populations in those countries (hint: it’s the G word)

ZeroTHM , 2 months ago

Too rational for Lemmy.

PhlubbaDubba , 2 months ago

You mean that G word that happened right after Israel came into existence and proceeded to demonstrate its intent to conquer by immediately disregarding its own borders with Palestine?

Genocide ain’t it no matter who’s doing it and for what reason, but it’s real fuckin’ convenient to just ignore a major instigating factor that just happens to be the country you’re trying to apologism for.

nonailsleft , 2 months ago

You mean after the Arab neighbours started a G on the jews as soon as the Brits left?

Sure the jews aren’t much better but it’s clear they’d be G’d themselves if it wasn’t for their weapons

woelkchen , 2 months ago

Jewish people from all over the world (not only parts of Europe invaded by Nazi Germany) were brought there to displace the Arab population that was forced to flee after a campaign of terrorist attacks.

The different religions didn’t have much beef with each other until that ethnic cleansing by religious fanatics who actually think that specific strip of desert land was gifted to them by god.

The only people who committed Jewish genocide were the Nazis. That’s why if at all a Jewish state should have been carved out from German territory and not have Arabs pay with their homeland.

nonailsleft , 2 months ago

Jews went there on their own. In no small part from predominantly muslim countries where they faced systemic discrimination and, often, persecution.

Those from the Ottoman empire who didn’t were largely genocided by their muslim neighbours to ‘punish’ them for the creation of Israel, which should give you clue that your idea that “different religions didn’t have much beef” is complete bs.

Not to say the zionist jews aren’t among the worst people as well, of course

woelkchen , 2 months ago

Jews went there on their own.

To displace the native population. That’s a war crime.

In no small part from predominantly muslim countries where they faced systemic discrimination and, often, persecution.

Not genocide, though. Unlike what’s happening to Palestinians now which is another coordinated effort to get rid of them. The civilians are systematically attacked and pushed towards Egypt for that reason.

‘punish’ them for the creation of Israel, which should give you clue that your idea that “different religions didn’t have much beef” is complete bs.

When I write that “different religions didn’t have much beef” before the creation of Israel by religious fanatics, any action that happens afterwards is no counter argument to that.

nonailsleft , 2 months ago

Yeah, I think this idea comes from not really knowing much history then.

As long as there are different religions, there’s been religious beef.

Jews living as minorities in predominantly islamic countries have experienced this by various degrees. Islamic law demands that they always be treated as second class citizens and, to no surprise, they have. And in certain periods in certain places, this was spiced up with some forced conversion or genocide.

Read up on this for a nice example. It’s like claiming black African slaves had a nice life in the US until some troublemakers started demanding equal rights.

The mass migration towards Palestine and zionist efforts to create a majority jewish state there aren’t a pinnacle of humanity, but it’s important to know where it comes from

woelkchen , 2 months ago

As an atheist I’m far from being an Islam defender but a special tax for “book religions” other than Islam and bans on certain jobs isn’t genocide and really not an excuse to displace or even murder a Muslim population who wasn’t even the ruling class that made those laws in the first place.

Islam isn’t treating Judaism and Christianity the way it would treat polytheists like Hindus. Now that’s a whole other can of worms but Palestinian genocide is inexcusable no matter how much anyone tries to justify it belittle it.

nonailsleft , 2 months ago

If you don’t see having to choose between conversion or death, with hundreds of thousands killed, as genocide, what would you call it?

What about being killed in the street for wearing shoes as a jew?

What about legally being allowed to genocide jews because one was rumoured to have struck a muslim woman?

That’s a strange idea of religions living peacefully together

woelkchen , 2 months ago

What about legally being allowed to genocide jews because one was rumoured to have struck a muslim woman?

That’s a bullshit lie. There was no Jewish genocide “because one was rumoured to have struck a muslim woman”. Either you don’t know what a genocide is and actively decide to stay uninformed or you’re spreading propaganda. The only Jewish genocide happened in Europe at the hands of Nazis. Scattered instances of violent crimes are abhorrent but not genocide. Equating both borders on Holocaust denial because it belittles actual genocide.

PS: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

nonailsleft , 2 months ago

So you think historians are lying about what happened under, for instance, the Almohads?

It’s about your bs claim that jews were generally having a great time living under islamic regimes

Ironically you pointing towards the nazis is the whataboutism here

woelkchen , 2 months ago

So you think historians are lying about what happened under, for instance, the Almohads?

[citation needed] specifically for a genocide after a single case of domestic violence.

nonailsleft , 2 months ago

You’re conflating and misrepresenting two of the examples I gave. I wonder why.

I gave you the link these examples come from five posts up. If you can’t be bothered to spend five minutes reading that, why are you so invested in this conflict (and discussion)?

Here’s a bonus one to quench your thirst for whataboutism, from the same article:

He compelled them to wear distinguishing garments, with a very noticeable yellow cloth for a head-covering; from that time forward the clothing of the Jews formed an important subject in the legal regulations concerning them.

woelkchen , 2 months ago

I gave you the link these examples come from five posts up.

Nothing about a genocide against Jews in there. You probably meant en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_Fez_massacre which was obviously horrible but A) that’s not genocide, B) was part of a wider conflict in which plenty of Muslims killed each other as well, C) was on a different continent, D) 900 years before anything modern Israel, so totally unrelated different ethnic groups living without much beef in the Western Asian strip of land that’s the actual topic here.

Really shows how desperate you are at justifying a modern genocide when you have to reach almost 1000 years back into the past to find something that fits your agenda.

from the same article

Nope, the following line is not in the “History of Moroccan Jews” article. That line is from a different article from a non-NPOV source and that one also doesn’t mention any genocide at all and even if it would, still not a justification of the modern genocide.

He compelled them to wear distinguishing garments, with a very noticeable yellow cloth for a head-covering; from that time forward the clothing of the Jews formed an important subject in the legal regulations concerning them.

Ah yes, they had to wear funny hats in a part of Africa. That has absolutely nothing to do with the Western Asian strip of land that is the actual topic but hey, this clearly justifies Palestinian genocide on a different continent 800 years later. Special rules also applied to Christians. Neither doesn’t speak to how well the actual people lived with each other. Also nothing that justifies any genocide from the hands of modern Christians as well.

nonailsleft , 2 months ago

Well, if you want me to prove that some ultra-zionists chased a Palestinian family of their land in the West-Bank today because the latter had genocided them there yesterday, I agree that that is not the case.

But I hope to make you understand that this is still all part of a larger religious conflict. This isn’t something that suddenly started in 1947. Your claim that they were all living happily together until the 1940’s is too broad, and quite wrong.

There are plenty of examples of how jews were discriminated against, small and large, ancient and recent. I agree that in the relatively sparsely populated Palestininan territories themselves, there wasn’t very much enmity. And that was probably one of the reasons the zionist movement chose it.

The first large waves of immigrants came from Russia and Eastern Europe because of the genocidal religious discrimination they faced there. Later those who experienced the same under catholic and islamic majorities, with the nazis taking the crown, followed suit.

And it’s not like the local muslim population welcomed this stream of immigrants. They themselves were expecting to come out of the Ottoman empire, and later Mandatory Palestine, with an islamic Arab state (where they would remain first class citizens). This led to the first larger clashes following WW1 resulting in both sides polarizing and militarizing, and the creation of Haganah and Irgun. And they’re still fighting the same fight today. Was it ‘wrong’ for all those jews to migrate there? Perhaps. Was it ‘wrong’ for the local muslims not to welcome them? Perhaps. But the history isn’t as one sided as you describe it.

HarryPotter , 2 months ago

It’s the convert word.