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S_204 ,

Missing the Palestinian flag there Buddy.

SouthEndSunset ,

*Israeli

S_204 ,

Another dope who’s swallowed Iran’s Propaganda. Good job. Israel didn’t start it in October, or in '48 or any of the wars in between.

SouthEndSunset ,

Either way, it doesn’t make Israel’s actions right.

S_204 ,

No but it makes them justified. When faced with an existential threat, there is no choice but to eliminate it.

This all ends when Hamas gives up their terroristic control. Even the Arabs understand that and are including it in their peace deal negotiations.

SouthEndSunset ,

You didn’t read the article. Your statements make no sense.

S_204 ,

It’s a picture not an article…and you still struggled to read it. LoL.

Doorbook ,

Nice post was able to find many pro genocide and colonization users here to be labeled as “idf” or “Zainoist”

OtakuAltair ,
@OtakuAltair@lemmy.world avatar

People’s views on NK and how it got there are a surprisingly good indicator of their views on Palestine.

Ambiorickx ,

The number of tankies in this thread is just epic

Arelin ,

So, pointing out that the US carpet bombed North Korea with 635,000 tons of bombs, killed 20% of their population and turned all remaining infrastructure to rubble is “tankie” now?

You guys just can’t see non-westerners as human.

crackajack ,

Two wrongs don’t make a right, you cow.

Arelin ,

Parroting zionist talking points really well there bud. The fuck do you mean ‘wrong’?

The Viet Cong didn’t liberate their country from the US by being nice, and Palestinians won’t liberate theirs from US-backed Israel by being nice either. The difference here is the even more extreme brutality of the US that made NK the way it is today.

crackajack ,

How else does the word “wrong” mean. You braindead jackass.

TheSanSabaSongbird ,

Well, that and the fact that the DPRK is being held hostage by one of the world’s most successful organized crime families. Had North Korea won, the only difference would be that the Kim family would control all of Korea. I don’t think it’s accurate to say that the US made the Kims what they are.

One thing that I think is not widely appreciated enough, especially by younger people, is how much the fear of a third world war dominated the 2nd half of the 20th century. I don’t point this out as any kind of moral justification on anyone’s part, but rather as an explanation that is far more convincing than the simple US bad, communism good and vice versa that is so common on social media.

We have to remember that the men behind all of these events had survived the largest war in human history and absolutely believed in the possibility of even worse to come. It informed everything about how they thought about the world. How could it not? The things they had seen and experienced first hand were, as they say, the stuff of nightmares.

OtakuAltair ,
@OtakuAltair@lemmy.world avatar

The amount of zionists in this thread is staggering. Apparently fighting back against oppressors is a bad thing.

sin_free_for_00_days ,

The number of people who don’t think Israel should exist always amazes me.

TimeNaan ,

It shouldn’t if you know Israel’s history.

bigFab ,

I think the statistics show it all in the Korean case. May be lot of tankies here, but they’r bringing factual data.

ILikeBoobies ,

NK shouldn’t be here

NoLifeGaming ,

Israel is missing from the picture

ArmokGoB ,

Israel didn’t start the war.

NoLifeGaming ,

People like you always seem to wanna start the story at October 7th while ignoring any relevant history before it. In case you don’t know, israel and the zionist project took over Palestinian land and as a result almost a million Palestinians fleed palestine. Amongst many others who were killed. What I find interesting is that zionists in their correspondance with the British at the time is that they weren’t pressed about getting palestine to be their homeland, they were okay in finding somewhere else. One of the other possibilities was Uganda for example.

shadowspirit ,

Yeah, so mass rape and terrorism is OK in your book if the ends justify the means? Hamas did start the conflict.

Israel was in talks with Saudi Arabia to normalize relations and Iran didn’t want that at all and they gave Hamas the green light to attack.

usip.org/…/saudi-israel-normalization-agreement-h…

Everything that happens in that region is about Saudi Arabia and Iran.

NoLifeGaming ,

No one said its okay. You’re very good at strawmaning me. If Hamas did commit such acts then of course there should be proper justice. However, proper justice isn’t blowing up innocent people and children. Just like you don’t blow up a school when there’s a school shooter.

shadowspirit ,

Where we disagree is in saying Hamas didn’t start this current conflict. They certainly did. Has shit been going on here for millenia? of course. The “strawman” was to remind you of the fact this opened with mass rape and murder at a music festival – that’s a fact.

You seemed to argue that thousand years of history seemingly justifies that and I’m telling you that it does not. " If Hamas did "… So you’re absolute when it comes to Israel but when it comes to Hamas there’ are modifiers. Your bias is showing.

www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67613153

www.cnn.com/2023/12/06/middleeast/…/index.html

Israel has done plenty of things that they should not be doing. The warlike bombardment of a city is not justified and has soured world opinion against them.

Alsephina ,

North Korea? Really?

The country that had fucking 20% of its population slaughtered by the US in just 3 years after Korea was split in two against their will after WW2?

Arelin ,

Leave it to westerners to be completely ignorant of history lol

This ‘meme’ is disgusting.

MindSkipperBro12 ,

They shouldn’t have started a war that they couldn’t win.

TheSanSabaSongbird ,

You’re the one trotting out a simplistic black and white vision as if anything about any part of history is or can ever be explained in such terms. History is always much more complicated than our ideological biases would like.

MindSkipperBro12 ,

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Alsephina ,

    Least genocidal westerner

    MindSkipperBro12 ,

    Not only that: An American.

    We’re well practiced in genociding and good at truly succeeding. Silly.

    TheSanSabaSongbird ,

    There’s zero context in your comment. It’s just as biased as the meme is. You’re blithely glossing over the much larger historical context of WW2 and why the US was there in the first place, and you’re eliding the rather obvious fact that a sizable majority of Koreans were opposed to the attempted communist takeover in the first place.

    The salient fact about the 2nd half of the 20th century, that is routinely ignored by Lemmy’s tankies, is that the men guiding US foreign policy had survived the largest war in human history and were absolutely and legitimately terrified that there would be another even worse war in the very near future if they didn’t do everything they could to prevent the kind of runaway imperialism seen in Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.

    Furthermore, these men knew for a fact --as even Lemmy’s tankies will admit-- that communism by design and by doctrine can only come to its final stage in a globally hegemonic system. If you honestly believed, as they clearly did, that fighting a war in Korea --which after all had been liberated from Imperial Japan by the US-- was part of a much larger strategy to contain communism and thereby prevent a 3rd world war, you would feel yourself morally obliged to do it.

    We can argue about whether or not they were correct in their beliefs, but we can’t simply condemn them as evil imperialists. That’s just stupid reductionist bullshit. Reality is always much more complicated than simple black and white “my team good, your team bad.”

    sharkfucker420 ,
    @sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml avatar

    Bro I’ll be real with you north Korea got fucking obliterated to the extent that they were living underground because every single building has been bombed to rubble. North Korea was definitely the victim of imperialist interference. No person in that country deserved that level of devastation.

    OsrsNeedsF2P ,

    A total of 635,000 tons of bombs, including 32,557 tons of napalm, were dropped on Korea. By comparison, the U.S. dropped 1.6 million tons in the European theater and 500,000 tons in the Pacific theater during all of World War II (including 160,000 on Japan).

    …yea.

    GiveMemes ,

    Also consider the fact that north Korea is roughly the size of Maine and Japan is roughly the size of the east coast.

    TheUncannyObserver ,

    If North Korea was anywhere near the size of those other countries, your comment would be a good rebuttal. As far as I’m aware, no other country, save perhaps Palestine, has been bombed as relatively bad as they were.

    Alsephina ,

    I think you’re misreading their comment? They seem to be pointing out how brutal it was, not downplaying it.

    kSPvhmTOlwvMd7Y7E ,

    I d like to interject fpr a moment, what refer to as Palestine, is in fact not a country…

    galloog1 ,

    That has no bearing on them starting the war. Don’t start wars and you are far less likely to suffer wars.

    Alsephina ,

    I was gonna ask if you also think this way about Palestine, but looks like I don’t need to.

    Israel is finishing a war they did not start. Violence progressed to the terrorist attack but it didn’t start there. Do you really expect them to accept going back to the status quo that was progressively getting worse? That was the result of the last three conflicts.

    Interesting how you can tell someone is a zionazi based on their comments in this thread. Almost like these are similar situations of people rising up against their oppressors.

    galloog1 ,

    I’m not sure how anyone could think that a massive terror attack including rape and kidnapping by the government of a state is not justified pretense for a declaration of war. This is textbook and I’m not sure how Hamas and you could expect anything less.

    ThrowawayPermanente ,

    You guys I bit off more than I can chew

    TimewornTraveler ,

    Ehhh the Korean war is complicated. It started with Japan invading Korea and attempting to erase their history and culture. (Worth noting that America gave them the green light on this). After WW2, Korea was divided and backed by US/USSR interests on either side. It was a shitshow with everyone disagreeing how things should be run. Eventually North Korea did invade the South, though, so I guess this meme still applies. But even that fact is unclear - they claim it was retaliatory. Who knows.

    Kusimulkku ,

    Ehhh the Korean war is complicated

    North Korea did invade the South

    Doesn’t seem very complicated to me

    TimewornTraveler ,

    oh well if you think it’s simple then please write the historians who cant make sense of it, we don’t know who attacked first

    Kusimulkku ,

    The Korean War was fought between North Korea and South Korea from 1950 to 1953. The war began on 25 June 1950 when North Korea invaded South Korea following years of internal instability and hostilities between the two states.

    Yeah it’s a real conundrum, that one

    TimewornTraveler , (edited )

    scroll down on the Wikipedia page you copied that from. it describes exactly what I’m talking about. I’m not some Hexbear shill here, the Korean war is a legit fucked up and complicated situation

    Honestly why are you so adamant that international conflict must be simple? are you that naive, or are you playing with me, or what?

    Kusimulkku , (edited )

    Who started it is very simple. North Korea started it by invading the South. I’m sorry if that annoys you but it’s not a very controversial thing to say at all or something that’s highly debated by historians or anything.

    TimewornTraveler , (edited )

    sigh you’re really not gonna go back and read it, are you?

    Operation Pokpung
    Main article: Operation Pokpung

    At dawn on 25 June 1950, the KPA crossed the 38th parallel behind artillery fire.[128] The KPA justified its assault with the claim that ROK troops attacked first and that the KPA were aiming to arrest and execute the “bandit traitor Syngman Rhee”.[129] Fighting began on the strategic Ongjin Peninsula in the west.[130][131] There were initial South Korean claims that the 17th Regiment had counterattacked at Haeju; some scholars argue the claimed counterattack was instead the instigating attack, and therefore that the South Koreans may have fired first.[130][132] However, the report that contained the Haeju claim also contained numerous other errors and outright falsehoods.[133]

    This isn’t some galaxy brain conspiracy take, I’m literally just talking about this ambiguity. And I really don’t feel very strongly about this issue - I’m more perturbed that you’re be so obstinate about it.

    Kusimulkku , (edited )

    However, the report that contained the Haeju claim also contained numerous other errors and outright falsehoods.

    Yes, that claim. It’s not highly debated or anything. Like the article says

    The years prior to North Korea’s invasion of South Korea were marked by border clashes between the two countries and an insurgency in the South that was backed by the North.[36][37][38] After failed attempts to stop the fighting and unify the Koreas, North Korean forces (Korean People’s Army or KPA) crossed the 38th parallel on 25 June 1950, formally starting the war.

    There’s some dubious claims, but almost everyone agrees that North Korea started the war. This is like arguing that there’s ambiguity about climate change since there’s some scientists who don’t believe in it. Meanwhile, the vast vast majority agrees that it’s a thing.

    It’s all well and good to think “there’s two sides to this” and whatever, you want to be fair and whatnot, but it’s really unwarranted here. You’re just unwittingly giving more credence to dubious claims.

    calavera ,

    It would have been so much easier if instead of splitting Vietnam and Korea, they kept one for each empire to take care of

    Ardiente ,

    Noob here, can guess Russia with ukraine but can anyone supply the full list for context on this meme ?

    hillosipuli ,

    Korean war and probably Kosovo war (or Yugoslavia wars in general) for Serbia

    Knoxvomica ,

    North Korea - Korean war and Serbia - Yugoslav wars

    joyjoy ,

    Not pictured: Japan (obvious reasons)

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