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It genuinely upsets me that Valve spent their time and resources on another Dota variation

Like for many other people, Valve single player experiences were one of my favorite of all time growing up. I considered both Half-Life and Portal to be masterpieces. It’s true they’ve always been distracted with multiplayer games as well, things like Counter-Strike or Team Fortress and I did play them for sure, because I was a kid and I had all the time in the world.

These days I’m not a kid anymore and so when I game I tend to look more for memorable experiences instead of mindless grinding. Obviously I remember Valve as the experts in creating memorable experiences and I would like them to keep fully exploring those talents. They don’t have that many employees, but they do have all the money in the world, no external pressure, no publisher to shit on them, it’s just their developers and artists and a vision. But then they use all that and create this. An Overwatch looking moba shooter, really? I’m sure people will like and play it, but is this the results of the vision and ambition of a company like Valve?

It doesn’t have to be Half-Life. I remember them saying that they dont want to do another one in the series because they are looking to innovate and make something truly original. My body is ready, give me anything. I can’t imagine a moba shooter really fits with this description. I’m wondering how such a low hanging concept even becomes a real product at a company as ambitious as Valve.

I hear people are having fun with the new game and I’m happy for them. I am no longer the target audience and I wish them good luck with it. In the mean time let me hear your thoughts on it. Would you like to see another single player experience from Valve?

PonyOfWar ,

I’d love to get another singleplayer game as well, but I’ve accepted that Valve is just unpredictable. I’m sure they haven’t given up on Singleplayer and we’ll get another singleplayer game… at some point. Their previous game was the fantastic Half-life Alyx after all.

Hawk ,

I mean, stuff has leaked about a possible new Half Life game, I guess we’ll see soon™

solsangraal ,

we’re getting old dude

the kids who are the age we were in the half life glory days–they don’t want single player. they want league of apex legends fortnitewatchstrike

single player games won’t go away completely, but they’re definitely taking a backseat to whatever the rage is with the kids. currently mobas. just google “most played video games” if you’re not depressed enough already

Carighan ,
@Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

“Single player games have taken a backseat”. Okay. We’re just going to state that as a truth? And also just stating kids as being the main video games audience still?

I mean if single player games have taken such a backseat, why are big companies pouring so much money into games such as Horizon, Dragon Age, Assassin’s Creed, Anno or Dark Souls? Why are indie games, thousands and tens of thousands of them, so overwhelmingly single player? Why is Zelda still not a MOBA? Just does not really hold water as an argument IMO. If anything it seems the opposite is happening and after the height of MOBAs in ˜2015, the market is slowly creeping back.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

“Single player games have taken a backseat”. Okay. We’re just going to state that as a truth?

I think we can state as a truth that they have less potential profit.

And also just stating kids as being the main video games audience still?

They spend more money. Probably because it’s not theirs.

bionicjoey , (edited )

It’s not a question of demand, it’s a question of profit. Multiplayer games stand to make a lot more money than singleplayer. Nobody will spend real world dollars on cosmetic items in a singleplayer game.

Virkkunen ,
@Virkkunen@fedia.io avatar

"An overwatch looking moba shooter"

No, it plays like Battleborn and Monday Night Combat, a third person shooter with moba elements. It's not overwatch, it's not Dota.

Geth OP ,

The point stands that it’s derivative. I’m convinced Valve can do better.

Virkkunen ,
@Virkkunen@fedia.io avatar

And isn't everything derivative? What's the issue with that? If feel like you're really trying to gather negativity towards this game simply because it doesn't pander to your tastes

Geth OP ,

Well, I guess your are right that everything is derivative. I also think some things are more alike than others and also some markets are more saturated than others. When Half-Life came out it was in a saturated market of FPSs but it also revolutionized the market. When Portal came out no one could compare it to anything other that a student project. Half-Life Alyx is still considered the no 1 most polished and complete game in the VR space. We’ll see the impact that Deadlock will have I guess.

MentalEdge ,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

Even if it is, it’s a derivation I’ve been sorely missing. Ever since Battleborn got shut down, there’s been a Battleborn shaped hole in my heart. Deadlock fits in that hole really well.

It’s possible that the whole impetus for creating Deadlock came from something like that. Someone at valve, like me, enjoyed the hell out this particular mix of mechanics.

There’s nothing like it. Dota doesn’t do the trick, neither does Overwatch. Of all things, the closest thing might be Titanfall 2’s titan combat.

Carighan ,
@Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

Also calling Overwatch a “MOBA shooter” is like calling Mario Kart a “Rogue like racer” because you start each race fresh with everything reset. It’s just an FPS, nothing MOBA about it.

100 ,

I wish for more fun and casual multiplayer with strong competive side like TF, none of this matchmaking toxic shit no-fun allowed with elo

Maalus ,

TF2 has matchmaking even in casual

IMongoose ,

And DOTA2 has the worst matchmaking I’ve ever seen in casual too. My third game I was placed with the sweatiest sweats and it completely turned me off the game.

meant2live218 ,

Back in the golden days of community servers, it sure as heck didn’t.

tomi000 ,

Why does this billion dollar company not do exaxtly what I expect them to😡 They made great games because those are the ones I like and now they make shitty games because I dont like them.

Geth OP ,

I percieve them as different to your run of the mill EA or Ubisoft, so I expect more from them. That’s on me I guess. I’m not angry though, just disappointed.

ABCDE ,

Have they released bad games?

Kecessa , (edited )

There’s been a bunch of Counter Strike releases that got very negative receptions

Is Artifact still active at all?

BallsandBayonets ,

I’d like them to do an RPG, something completely off the wall, like the TF2 crew playing D&D.

jeeva ,

I’m not saying everything in the world has been done, but “what, like Tiny Tina’s Wonderlands?”

Carighan ,
@Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, was thinking the same thing. Which, importantly, is already a game based upon a DLC for a previous Borderlands game!

acosmichippo ,
@acosmichippo@lemmy.world avatar

but they do have all the money in the world, no external pressure, no publisher to shit on them, it’s just their developers and artists and a vision.

I think that’s part of the issue. Supposedly they do have multiple games in development and a large percentage of their employees are working on them. But they are content to let the creative and technical processes play out, without announcing too-ambitious release dates which inevitably get pushed back and still have a buggy game released. And sometimes they even cut their losses if a long term project just isn’t working out.

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

I’m not a kid anymore, I don’t have time for a deep immersive single player campaign, I want a light casual game I can play a few rounds of to relax after work.

Geth OP ,

I grew up and decided that games have a place in my life to give experiences, you grew up and decided that they are a source of burst distractions. I guess age has nothing to do with it and it’s just about personal preference.

jerkface ,
@jerkface@lemmy.ca avatar

I wasn’t a kid anymore when HL came out. Hope you are still having fun, whatever you’re doing.

garretble ,
@garretble@lemmy.world avatar

I’m not a kid anymore and I’m the opposite: give me a single player Half Life 3 so I can relax without getting stressed online after work.

DarkThoughts ,

I honestly cannot fathom how people find pvp games relaxing. They're toxic as fuck and their competitive online nature makes them inherently stressful.

Deestan ,

The laws of captialism entropy:

Any organization that sees success will attract profit-driven leadership, and will become such over time. The soul from the original founders will be watered down, dampened, or ejected.

A profit-driven organization will over time become more and more profit-seeking, never less. Once this reaches a certain threshold, we start to use phrases like “enshittification”. Valve hasn’t gone shit yet imho, but their soul and passion doesn’t seem to lie in games anymore.

The next excellent product comes from new, growing organizations or small teams that may grow into such.

It is best to just treat it as any other law of nature and so we move on from Blizzard, Google, EA, Valve, Epic Games, Unity, etc and go swim in the wonderful vibrant indie scene.

Kecessa ,

This is just a reminder that Gabe Newell is just another billionaire and he collects yachts, he’s not your friend!

MentalEdge , (edited )
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

Don’t they supposedly have a couple other games in the works, too? What are the chances they’re working on three new MOBAs?

Geth OP ,

Inject this hopium into my veins.

They could just be one moba, one hero shooter and one last man standing, all online and all competitive.

stardust ,

I wish they’d at least do some fun story driven coop stuff instead of only pvp stuff. But, I miss the single player days.

helenslunch , (edited )
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

I was just looking at Valve’s publishing history. Their catalog is super small, only releasing games every few years. Aperture desk job was amazing (even if very short and sweet). I don’t have VR but Half Life:Alyx was also very well received. Recent evidence suggests there will be a HL3 sometime in the near future.

Do I wish Valve would invest more of the unfathomable amount of money they’re making into producing excellent games? Absolutely.

Am I going to hold it against them if some of the games they make are money-printing machines? Not really.

PapstJL4U ,
@PapstJL4U@lemmy.world avatar

Isnt Icefrog one of the lead devs? I guess he likes this style of game. How many Total Wars, 4x and CoDs were released while Valve made one more Dota-like. Valve has some cool people working, vut O don’t see a Suda51, a Raphael, Swery or Co, who has the focus to develope such a single player experience. If the flat structure with ‘at will’ project focus is still a thing, than sp games have probably a problem getting devs.

Geth OP ,

Since they are probably working on other stuff as well could this mean that Icefrog is the only lead who can take a project to completion reliably within Valve’s organizational structure?

Coelacanth ,
@Coelacanth@feddit.nu avatar

Valve is not a normal company. As far as I know they still have their fluid work structure in place where projects are dictated by what the devs themselves feel like doing and are inspired by.

Icefrog (who was the lead developer of Dota 2 - and Dota 1 for many years before that) is lead developing Deadlock as I understand it. It has his fingerprints all over it, at least. It seems enough other people at Valve liked his idea of a twist on the MOBA concept to turn it into a full project.

I feel your frustration but there isn’t really any opportunity cost lost here. It’s not that they decided to make “a game” and chose this one out of all available options. If they felt like they had enough ideas to make Half-Life 3 (or any other single player game) then they would have. It’s just that this is the game they want to make right now.

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