They really put the Streisand effect to good use here, huh? Nichegamers screenshot showed 9,000ish followers and they’re at 87,000 at the time of this comment.
Not gonna lie. It sounds like Sweet Baby should be putting their name on things they work on. Their reputation should reflect their body of work. If their poor writing is the reason people are disappointed in games, then people have a right to know. The problem is that it sounds like what they actually do isn’t writing, it’s some sort of EO QC. From what I have been able to find online, it seems like they get hired by game developers to sanitize games in a way that would appear (to some people) to be inclusive ways. However, just because you’re not a fan of their choice to make a male character female or vice versa, doesn’t necessarily mean you’re a bigot. This sounds like the same sort of thing WoTC is doing with their own IP by trying to change Drow etc. I don’t agree that Drow are problematic.
I don’t intend to spend money on new IP made products that seem to want to change lore and such with the intent of “being more inclusive” or less problematic.
Specifically because I feel like this wasn’t a conversation people were having until some people who are not negatively effected by the black = evil stereotype in media have all the sudden decided to white knight a movement against it in the most ham fisted way possible and it’s often pretty insulting.
I have said repeatedly that inclusivity works when the differences aren’t highlighted and there is a successful and not forced way to make that a part of most media, but making it the singular feature of a character in any media (that their existence is there just to fill a quota) is just tokenism.
They also write. But regardless of what they do, it doesn’t directly go into the game. Developers still gave the final say. A lot of gamers are missing this. But if I was a game developer I wouldn’t want to work with a consultancy company created by a racist/sexist. Hopefully the company makes changes or developers choose a better firm.
Looking at the curator list, whatever the intent, it’s actually a very handy list of titles with mid to astoundingly poor writing, a lot of which apparently even SBI seems to disown, since they’re not on their website (but they are credited by the games themselves).
So yeah, I don’t think I need it cause I already didn’t waste my money on any of those on their own merits, but it’s funny to see there’s a common thread.
They worked on the writing of quite a few famous things, and surprisingly, they made one niche full game themselves that I have played, one of the playdate’s initial games.
Yeah, that curator’s crusade against them doesn’t smell too good, very gamergate-y. That said the call to flag the curator en masse could get them in trouble. Probably not the right solution.
Yeah, that curator’s crusade against them doesn’t smell too good
All they want to do is boycott games made by Sweet Baby. Let them. They’re not trying to get the games removed from stores, or stopping people from buying them. Hell pro-Sweet Baby people can use the list to know that games do buy.
I’ve seen their discussion board. So yeah, intent counts too, and I’d advise anyone who may want to join/use that group to carefully consider why it was made.
you are very predictable. how can you be this predictable. they're terrible people because you don't like what they say. that does not make terrible people that means they disagree with you. that seems very childish. it just seems you cant handle people disagreeing with you.
They’re terrible people because they use transphobic slurs out of nowhere and label anything they don’t like “woke”. Only took reading a dozen messages to get to that point. Also, welcome to the block list.
A curation page is made to inform users if Sweet Baby worked a game or not. Sweet Baby employees started to harass (mass flag campaign) the curation page and it’s maker.
You know how most people never heard of this company or care that it exists? My understanding is that they consult on games to make them more inclusive. So you have a gay character written into a game, perhaps the result of this company's contributions or perhaps not, and then a bunch of people complain that Sweet Baby made the game woke or some nonsense. How did I hear of this? Steam forums became a cesspool for people crying about this company. If Suicide Squad bombs, it's because they consulted with Sweet Baby and went woke. Indiana Jones maybe features a woman in the trailer who looks like more than a damsel in distress? Sweet Baby's doing.
its curation list of games that sweet baby has worked on. this is made more difficult because sweet baby never makes there own game. because they consult leech off other peoples games and get payed for it. and that the work they do is shit and is associated with bad games so nobody wants to buy them. but as said above its not always easy to find out on what game they worked.
that’s the whole point you make it before you buy because you cant always tell on what game they worked because they don’t make the game.
But why should I care so much if this company was involved in a game? If the game is bad the reviews will reflect that, I don’t see the reason for checking an extra source to see if this company was involved or not. Let the games stand on their own.
im not the one calling people names am i. you seem to be the one wanting to rile people up. who are you kidding if it was really that boring you would not have replied in the first place.
Apparently they don’t like Sweet Baby’s focus on “promoting inclusivity”, so just some bigot getting their panties on a twist that the “out-group” is being treated with a basic level of human dignity. They then spent a bunch of time and effort to let the world know they think inclusivity is bad.
yes of course because inclusivity always just means inclusivity and not that you want to shove your political agenda into places where it does not belong. games have always been inclusive sweet baby are essentially just sensitivity readers for games. and by that totally missing the point of what games are. showing they should have nothing to do with video games in the first place. nobody said inclusively is bad. what is bad is using inclusively as shield for your own politics. and its also bad to mischaracterize what the argument is really about.
and not that you want to shove your political agenda into places where it does not belong
Do you have any direct examples instead of just names of games (screenshots, quotes, etc)? What specific"political agenda" is being pushed, and is this falling into the pit of “everything is politics, but this is politics I don’t like?”
games have always been inclusive
That’s just a lie. It’s always telling when on Steam discussion pages I see people complaining that they can’t customize their character and to play a certain class they have to be female or a minority, as if for 99% of games the protagonist doesn’t have to be a white male. “I feel included so it’s inclusive.”
its also bad to mischaracterize what the argument is really about.
When trying to get a direct answer as to what the argument is really about is like pulling teeth, then people are going to misunderstand. Even in your post you’ve provided no sources to show that Sweet Baby lowers the quality of games, but you *do" complain about inclusivity. So the only “fact” that I can actually pull away from your post is that you don’t like them because of their focus on inclusivity. You say it’s because it makes the games worse, but you have shown no evidence of that.
i have as much examples as you have examples of just saying inclusivity is good means its actually good. its a stupid tactic and i don't appreciate it. keep your debate tactics to yourself. talk like a normal person im not in a plant debate with you. if you really want sources use some yourself first but we all know that would just be stupid in a comment section.
inclusively does not just mean that you can create a character that looks like you that's very superficial it also means that everybody can appreciate a story and like it because its a good story and has good characters no matter what race minority status or sexuality. if you need to focus on superficial characteristics your doing wrong
like i already said sweet baby does never make there own games they leech of other peoples games and get payed for it. people are making educated guesses from what the company says and what the people who work there say. they create the problem that they are the Solution to. they focus on representation as business model and they represent it in the most superficial performative hollow fake way this will never help anybody actually have good story's in games it just helps sweet baby make money by riding the wave of fake performative hollow inclusivity
if you really want sources use some yourself first
“This company does bad work! Everyone needs to avoid anything they’ve work on!”
“Okay… can you give me some examples of their bad work?”
“No! First YOU prove that the work they are trying to do is good!”
How hard you work to deflect the conversation speaks volumes towards what the real issue is here.
I tried going to the Sweet Baby Inc detected page to see what the actual issue is but nothing is explained. Just a list of games and the comment “SBI worked on this.”
Why should I care? It’s never explained. You say they do bad work, and when I ask for an example you give a long winded no. For someone who feels so passionately about them being bad you are very reluctant to actually back up your claims.
You are upset that I “mischaracterize[d] what the argument is really about” but it is impossible to find any direct statements as to what the argument is really about. Any clear statements of the curation page would help prevent “mischaracterization”, but people are twisting themselves in knots in order to not make direct statements.
I have no strong opinions about SBI, I could be convinced that they are bad and best avoided, but nobody wants to present any actual arguments no matter how much people ask. Makes it really sound like a group of people too afraid to say the quiet part out loud because it wouldn’t be acceptable.
sweet baby does never make there own games they leech of other peoples games and get payed for it.
You mean games hire them for a service? Lots of games do that. I’ve yet to see any example of the service they provide being bad.
for someone complaining about deflecting the conversation you sure do know how to deflect the conversation. i m not going to repeat myself on what the issue is.
a service that should not exist and that makes games worse. if you want proof maybe ask if you can see the scripts they wrote for the games they worked on. maybe you can show us sources and proof. because you really like sources and proof. and your not using this at all as a distraction from the point . and the point is that sweet baby is shit company that does shit work that makes games worse. if you just want to say its a company that promotes inclusion that's your problem not mine. but that would be missing the point.
i m not going to repeat myself on what the issue is.
Seems like it would have been trivial to copy past if it had already been made clear.
maybe you can show us sources and proof
Of what? That nobody is making a clear statement as to what the issue is with SBI? Okay, here’s one source that implies SBI is bad but gives no reasons as to why: …steampowered.com/…/44858017-Sweet-Baby-Inc-detec…
I am not arguing that SBI is good, I’m trying to get a clear argument as to why SBI is bad and keep hitting brick walls. I don’t know what type of “source” you expect for that other than gestures broadly at the comments.
and the point is that sweet baby is shit company that does shit work that makes games worse
There’s lots of shit companies that make shit games. I don’t need a curated list of shit games do be able to avoid them, I can look at reviews and even get a refund through Steam. What makes SBI special such that reviews and refunds are insufficient to be able to avoid poor quality games?
Seems like it would have been trivia to read comments that are already posted. see i can do that to.
you hit brick walls because you want to hit brick walls. ignorance is bliss and all that.
I have. All I’ve seen are deflections, and vague statements that the company does bad work with nothing to back it up or to clarify why their work specifically requires a curated list instead of just reading reviews and avoiding poor quality games.
you are doing this purpose now. you keep asking me to repeat myself im not going to. i can already see you will just pick and choose what i said. if you just ignore what i say then what is the fucking point but it was fun maybe just a bit repetitive.
I keep asking you to make a clear direct statement which you are purposely refusing to do. So that just leaves me to guess at what that reason could possibly be that you don’t want to say it out loud.
what is the fucking point
If you’re not going to say anything then what is the fucking point of replying? It would take just as much effort to “repeat yourself” and prove my questions are as disingenuous as you claim.
i have said it its in the fucking comments you just need to read like i already told you. even now you are making me repeat myself. you could have already read it by now if you just read the comments like any normal person would. that's what they are there for. that's why i said your questions are disingenuous.
if you want to go so far in repetition just so you don't need to read that sweet baby is a superficial performative hollow fake company that is your problem my dude.
i have said it its in the fucking comments you just need to read like i already told you.
And, to repeat myself: I have. All I’ve seen are deflections, and vague statements that the company does bad work with nothing to back it up or to clarify why their work specifically requires a curated list instead of just reading reviews and avoiding poor quality games. (see how easy that was to copy and paste?)
sweet baby is a superficial performative hollow fake company
So what is the need for the curated list? If the company doesn’t do anything useful that’s on developers to not use them. If the company makes games bad that’s what reviews are for and I won’t buy games that are bad, I don’t need to cross reference my purchases with a 3rd party list to avoid poor quality games. If they work on a game that isn’t bad why should I take the advice of this list to not purchase it?
If ignorance is bliss you must be literally the happiest being in all of existence. If you were even a touch smarter you’d be embarrassed enough by this exchange you’re losing to delete your comments, but you’re not.
not as embarrassing as saying someone else should delete there comments because you cant handle words. just the arrogance in thinking that's a good thing to say. maybe talk like a grown up and not a baby that is just funny thank you
That isn’t what I said at all, but I can’t expect you to understand that I suppose. What I actually said was that if you were even slightly smarter you be so embarrassed by them that you’d delete your comments. Not sure why you think I’d want them deleted, the longer they’re here the more embarrassing it is. Or would be, if you weren’t so dense.
Practice some reading comprehension, judging by your comments you should start with Mr Men books, that’ll be about the right level for you.
may dude the implication is that i should delete my comments you just put some window dressing on it. you are telling me what i should do. maybe you need reading comprehension more then i do to know to not talk for people.
That first paragraph is the most cringe inducing thing I’ve ever read. If you had written guttural sounds and whines you’d have sounded less stupid. Go and learn something you embarrassment.
you have not seen much have you. you assume to much and you like to talk for people because you like talking to yourself and make up conversations don't really know if that's good state of mind to have maybe look into that. you seem like someone that's very sensitive someone not made for the internet.
I’m not talking for anyone, so you seem to have gotten a little lost again. It’s ok, go back and re-read, do it slowly and sound the hard words out loud so you can work out what they are. Maybe you’ll extract some of the actual meaning from the word, then you can finally make a comment that actually follows a conversation instead of this weird straw man about someone “not made for the internet.”
And dude, the conversations I’m responding to are literally right there above my comments, where is it you think that stupid line of thought is going? Everyone can see what you said. Are you struggling with object permanence as well?
my dude you are talking for me again and you are sniffing your own farts. being this far up your own ass will never be a good look. you are funny thank you very much i appreciate it.
people should be free to know who worked on the game they buy. If they don’t like sweetbaby’s products, then they are free to not pay money for them. Transparency is good.
It’s not a plugin, and as far as I know it uses publicly available information.
I just don’t understand the use case. So people look for a game they’d like to try, then go and check that list, then go back and purchase the game if it’s not on the list? Why? If they make games bad the reviews will tell you the game is bad.
And it’s perfectly reasonable for people to ask “why don’t you want to buy a game sweetbaby worked on?”
For example: I won’t purchase a game produced by Blizzard. If someone asked me why I wouldn’t evade the question by saying “I am free to do so, that is my choice.” I will happily tell them it’s because of how poorly they treat their employees, and how they actively make games worse to try to squeeze more money out of people. The entire point of a boycott is to inform people why this company should be boycotted.
All this dancing around answering the very simple question of “why do you actively want to avoid purchasing a game SBI worked on” speaks volumes as to how generally unacceptable that reason must be. Makes it look like people are afraid to “say the quiet part of loud.” Why else would they not just answer the question?
True. Just be aware that when someone says “this looks like bigotry,” if the only response they get is “I don’t have to explain myself to you!” That doesn’t make it look less like bigotry.
Any reason at all would have looked better. Or just not replying.
I never said otherwise. I simply said “the reason they don’t want to buy this isn’t because of what the product is, it’s because they are bigots who don’t like the fact that there are people involved who promote inclusivity,” and nobody has presented any alternative reasons.
People can absolutely buy or not buy whatever they want. And when bigots do things because of bigotry I can point out that bigotry when people ask why they are doing those things.
People can absolutely buy or not buy whatever they want. And when bigots do things because of bigotry I can point out that bigotry when people ask why they are doing those things.
There’s all sorts of things I won’t buy and companies I won’t purchase from. When asked why I’m perfectly happy to give my reasons instead of just saying “I don’t have to and you can’t make me!” Repeatedly.
You have been spending a lot of time “not justifying your choices” to other people, when no one has claimed that you have to. So what are you trying to achieve here if not “justify your choices?”
People can absolutely buy or not buy whatever they want. And when bigots do things because of bigotry I can point out that bigotry when people ask why they are doing those things.
I think it’s always reasonable to report bigots playing stupid bigot games. The fact that the Steam Group had to delete every discussion and completely lock their discussion area to maintain compliance with Steam’s policies seems to indicate those reports were warranted.
Racist and sexist remarks are never appropriate. Do you have specific examples you are concerned about? Or are you going to give me some vague “they are the ones saying racist things!!1!” Nonsense with nothing to back it up?
They have been gaining a reputation for poor writing, ‘wheadonesque’ if you know the term. Some lowlights on the game Forspoken that they worked on being a recent funny example. I don’t like them because I do find the writing bad, but some people don’t like them for their politics.
IMO that one works because of how little character each actual character has by design. Dumb jock is dumb and jocky, stoner is stoned, virgin is timid. It’s a play on the lack of real character that mid to low budget horror movies often have.
It’s a great movie but I do find when Wheadon tries to do anything else, it just simmers down to kitchy one-liners that elicit a mild chuckle and nothing else, and that gets old very quickly.
Speaking as a huge fan of firefly, I’m not even gonna pretend that the writing doesn’t have a very specific set of issues, and that cancellation might have saved it from becoming aggressively mid and boring.
If Serenity was more or less the intended ending to the season (specifically revealing the alliance actually created the reapers and are unequivocally villainous) I’m actually happy they didn’t get to put that in the show.
Same for the Shepherd Book backstory comic where he was actually a brown coat double agent in the alliance, because god forbid we have to accept that your enemy isn’t ontologically evil.
But the best criticism I’ve seen of Whedon is that all his dialogue has over time exceedingly forgone character voice in favour of funny quips.
So much of his later production’s quotable lines are almost impossible to attribute correctly just from the lines themselves.
They are contractor writers, if a company is using such services for their games instead of hiring their own staff writers, then they are not that interested in quality.