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southsamurai ,
@southsamurai@sh.itjust.works avatar

The only thing that surprises me is that anyone is surprised.

I don’t intend that to be snarky, more jokey. But, yeah, it’s pretty much common knowledge. Not the first time they’ve expressed unpleasant opinions on the subject, though not quite this bluntly. There was a minor kerfluffle over it not too long after the reddit exodus.

And it isn’t unexpected tbh, that’s a pretty bog standard tankie take, if perhaps a tad more trope filled.

To me, lemmy is kinda like a less important version of the Apollo missions. You put up with someone unpleasant because they can get the job done, until things get to the point it can be done without them. German scientists, tankie devs. Yeah, yeah, von Braun wasn’t a “real” nazi; whatever.

At some point, either lemmy gets enough movement to get a less extreme team on board, it gets forked, or something else comes along.

Quill7513 ,

I’ll keep posting about Sublinks as long as Lemmy is primarily developed by people whom suck

threelonmusketeers ,

How is Sublinks development going? Are they getting close to Lemmy as far as features go? Any stable instances yet?

I’m aware of the project, but haven’t been following it closely the past few months.

Blaze ,

I’m on the Matrix space, things are still moving.

No release date yet, and it’s summer so people are on annual leave

maegul ,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

Genuinely curious … what exactly is the problematic stance here?

Is it that they think the boxer was a biological male and therefore trans female? Or is it referring to then as a biological male (which seems justifiably politically incorrect to me but not heinous in trying to point out that the Olympic/bougousie can’t be that transphobic, could honestly be a language problem).

Or is it the statement that the bourgeoisie aren’t trans phobic?

Sekoia ,

“The transgender topic” is already weird as a statement (kinda like “the gay agenda”, it comes off as only considering it as a political statement?), and “clearly promoted by the bourgeoisie” implies it’s bad.

“Gas far as […] lgbt flags on government buildings”: it’s… not far at all? Again, weird statement.

“Biological male” is both wrong for the boxer (she’s cis) and generally used for transphobia (trans women on HRT aren’t biological males by any reasonable definition). It’s also generally conspiratorial.

Overall it’s not explicitly transphobic or bad to me, but it shows at minimum a very misinformed perspective.

maegul ,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

Overall it’s not explicitly transphobic or bad to me, but it shows at minimum a very misinformed perspective.

Yea that was my impression too. AFAIU, they’re from Europe so there may be a language barrier too. Don’t know how true that is though of course.

Otherwise, tangentially, as far as all the anti-tankie sentiments that may have been prompted by this are concerned, I’ve only seen good culture from them on trans issues.

EDIT: and thanks for the reply!

onlinepersona ,

https://media1.tenor.com/images/f348bddbc249a4ca4fc13dc2ed27bf39/tenor.gif?itemid=5314701

So many things I’d have to look up to understand what’s going on and why this is supposedly transphobic.

What bothers me more is private discussions being aired publicly.

Anti Commercial-AI license

colforge ,

“Aww we can’t say hateful things in DMs without worrying about it still getting out.” 😭😭😭😭

onlinepersona ,

If you don’t believe in privacy, then I don’t think we have anything to talk about.

Anti Commercial-AI license

colforge ,

If you don’t understand that anyone you have a conversation with can and will tell other people then I don’t know how you tie your shoes.

BentiGorlich ,
@BentiGorlich@gehirneimer.de avatar

You cloud give mbin a try its developers are nice people :)
Although there is only one app for it (interstellar)

Blaze ,

When you guys implement github.com/MbinOrg/mbin/issues/486 I might switch.

I’m not the biggest fan the Mbin interface (that’s mostly a taste issue, nothing wrong with it per se), but that feature could be enough for me to give it another try

BentiGorlich ,
@BentiGorlich@gehirneimer.de avatar

Give it a thumbs up so we know what to prioritize 😊

I've been focusing on the backend and federation stuff. But I promise that we will implement it this year :)

Blaze ,

Great, I just did!

Elevator7009 ,

I have asked before and I am curious. I do not mean this to crap on people who want an app but I wonder why an app is a desired thing. I use Mbin and Lemmy on mobile completely through my browser and I'm having a good time with both.

Blaze ,

Different strokes for different folks

Elevator7009 ,

I understand that. I want to know specifically what attracts these people with different tastes to an app, and what makes them not want to use it in the browser. I generally don't judge on taste but I do get curious about why peoples' tastes are what they are.

TisI ,

I always have the same thoughts when people say they use browsers. Apps are (in my experience) much more practical to use. Also, I think browsers are an ok option on a computer, but not mobile.

Elevator7009 ,

In my experience Reddit had to be used with an app if not on desktop, but the Fediverse on mobile feels like the Reddit app (I'm one of the few people who never had trouble with the official app, it was functional for me, so this is not meant as an insult at all. I left and came here over the API stuff only) so I have no need to switch. Much more mobile-friendly. Using the Fediverse on desktop feels a lot like the mobile experience but wider.

TisI ,

Ok, let’s talk about Lemmy specifically. The app I’m currently using (Connect) has so many great features like swipe gestures that improve browsing tremendously. Just in this thread, there was a link that I had to use the browser to view that had two images that I needed to zoom in to view and then zoom out to read the other comments. This is something you don’t deal with when using an app because it’s usually optimized for easier viewing.

But at the end of the day, this is about habits and what you feel most comfortable with.

Have you ever tried an app and thought, nah I don’t like it?

Elevator7009 ,

It's happened before in general, though I cannot remember specific instances. As for Fediverse apps, I do have one for Matrix because I think you actually cannot use that on mobile without an app. Every time I try to open a Matrix link on mobile it tells me to pick an app. For Mbin and Lemmy, I do not need an app because I'm already having a good experience on the browser. Little to no friction or complaints. I also don't feel I need anything more, so I don't want to sink that minimal effort into finding and trying an app. The post that came out talking about a lot of apps not displaying Markdown correctly further discourages me, as I don't want to track it down to find which ones do, and one of the things few apps show correctly is spoiler formatting which I use.

I see it can be about accessibility and solving usability issues on the browser now, which of course will be different for different people. Thanks for discussing with me :)

FundMECFSResearch ,

Do you have downvotes disabled?

BentiGorlich ,
@BentiGorlich@gehirneimer.de avatar

Nope. That is not yet possible on mbin. Dislikes are received but not sended. I was holding back on implementing sending dislikes because that can't be configured yet.

FundMECFSResearch ,

If there are instances with downvoted disabled in the future, I’ll consider switching.

I find people are way too easy to downvote on lemmy so I think it’s nice to be on an instance where it is disabled.

BentiGorlich ,
@BentiGorlich@gehirneimer.de avatar

It is in the works :)

Elevator7009 ,

Not sent to other instances? I am on Mbin and see downvotes.

BentiGorlich ,
@BentiGorlich@gehirneimer.de avatar

Yes you see the down votes from othwr instances, but these other instances cannot see your downvotes

Elevator7009 ,

Thank you for explaining!

Varyk , (edited )

Bourgeoisie means the middle class, it’s frustrating that term has become incorrectly popularized as “those in power” or “the upper crust”.

db0 ,
@db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Not quite. Bourgeois were the merchant class which was the middle one during feudal times. But now they have become the ruling class and the term has started changing in meaning, but the old use still Is valid

Varyk ,

I’ve heard the argument, but we already have more accurate terms like “capitalist”.

I’m not saying people are going to stop using those terms, I just find personally find it silly.

It’s like calling a truck a bicycle, and then having to explain every time that you understand a truck isn’t really a “bicycle” but you have to call it a “bicycle” because everybody else calls it a bicycle.

db0 ,
@db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Marxists tend to get stuck in definitions that were used in Marx’s time, so I always try to interpret things in that way as well when talking to one to see if it makes sense and avoid misunderstandings. I prefer to talk about the actual issues than to bicker about definitions

Varyk ,

I get that.

I feel like if it’s small enough that there’s no ambiguity about what you’re talking about and you can move past it, that’s the way to go.

I feel like a lot of the time though, people are using different definitions consistently specifically to evoke certain context clues in an efforts to avoid defining exactly how relevant their comment is to the issue ostensibly being presented.

So in a real-life c Toyota onversation, I’ll usually clarify what they mean first, and if it’s close enough to what we were talking about, we move on and keep talking.

Often with internet comments, I receive “no, I only mean this phrase or word, this is an equally valid definition”, that means that we aren’t even talking about the same thing and there’s no point in pursuing the matter since they’re focused on putting on a performance for dinner ulterior motive instead of making a point.

Goalposts and all that

UraniumBlazer ,

I think they’re responding to a transphobic comment and not being transphobic themselves. I think they’re addressing a far left, socially conservative conspiracy of saying “trans people r bourgeoisie inventions for culture wars to distract the public from the class war”. This person is saying that this is a far fetched idea.

I’m correct in understanding this, right?

Quill7513 ,

Gonna give you the benefit of the doubt. You are not understanding right.

maegul ,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

Still not clear on what’s so trans phobic here (having read the context, which is a private message TBC).

It seems like they’re saying that major coordinated transphobic misinformation from the bourgeoisie is unlikely given that there’s also clear pro-trans activity. Whixh is superficial IMO as such doesn’t discount multiple activities but it certainly isn’t defunct logic I’d say, where there are clearly transphobes and plenty of transphobic energy in mainstream culture at the moment.

But I don’t think they’re saying transphobia isn’t a problem. The first rule of the instance they admin is against transphobia, for example. It seems to me all they’re saying is that it isn’t a major mission by the bourgeoisie. Which compared to making corporations and capitalism happy is maybe not unfair.

vzq , (edited )

Oh man. That’s some sick shit. He had obviously been saving up this speech, waiting for an occasion to spring it on some unsuspecting poster.

UraniumBlazer ,

Oof. Tankies rlly r weird, huh

Beaver ,
@Beaver@lemmy.ca avatar

That’s not the situation at all.

saltesc ,

Next time someone asks me what Lemmy’s like, I’ll just refer them to this post.

“And see? That’s my comment down here with the gif.”

https://c.tenor.com/_QQbHwS-MfsAAAAC/tenor.gif

maegul ,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

Honestly seems dumb to me. The vast majority of lemmy is not like this at all. It all depends on what you subscribe to.

That there’s always some background radiation of Fedi drama … yea I’d agree with you on that … sad to see TBH. IMO, some just want to create drama and get tribal without actually doing anything positive.

saltesc ,

A rant on social issues, a spin on development, and a nonchalant passive-aggressieness… Nah, that’s a lot of Lemmy. If the profile pic was a fursona, that’d be 💋👌

Hell, just look at these comments lol. You’re in denial or you’ve gotten good at ignoring it.

maegul ,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

You’re in denial or you’ve gotten good at ignoring it.

Maybe. I’m plugged into my fair share of Fedi drama around the fediverse I’d say.

A big difference I suspect is between those who scroll All and those who rely on subscribing.

Otherwise, I don’t think this is a lemmy thing, it’s a fediverse thing. Even BlueSky. A sad trait amongst people has been exposed by alternative social … people are meaner to open source voluntary devs than big corp extractive owners.

Elevator7009 ,

I agree very much about Subscribing vs. All.

I hear about the lemmy.ml drama on Fediverse but my actual experience is no drama and I do not 100% know what is happening.

I also put my head in the sand and only look at my Subscribed, which includes zero politics or "this company did this awful thing"-style depressing news as I'm oversensitive and too prone to doomscrolling. I stay informed somewhere else, not on the Fediverse where people can put so many understandably upset comments that encourage me to doomscroll. And I'd imagine those types of posts, which I know to be prevalent on Local or All, attract comments from people with strong political views, which is probably part of the lemmy.ml drama. I could probably block all the politics posts with a couple community blocks, but not the miseryposting (understandable, people want to vent or post an on-topic news article, I just cannot handle it personally without doomscrolling more things like it) that attracts "and this problem was caused because of [insert politics here]" replies—so many communities are appropriate places to post news that happens to be sad, or a meme about how much your life sucks.

Blaze ,

Same approach here

otl ,
@otl@hachyderm.io avatar

@xnx PieFed won’t have an app any time soon due to the way it’s implemented. It’s still awesome without a native app because it’s fast and doesn’t really need direct access to hardware to do its thing.

Tech detail: PieFed is a Python app using Flask and server-side rendered HTML templates. It is super fast as there’s no heavy Javascript framework being used. The maintainer has written about how PieFed is developed with poor internet connections in mind: https://piefed.social/post/6102

@fediverse

threelonmusketeers ,

PieFed won’t have an app any time soon due to the way it’s implemented.

Why is that? They seem pretty similar on the surface, so I’m curious differences exist under the hood which would preclude app development.

hendrik ,

There isn't anything stopping this. It's just that no one is working on an app. And there isn't any API implemented (yet) for an app to hook in to and fetch posts and comments. Both could be programmed. Someone could also copy the Lemmy API and use arbitrary Lemmy apps with Piefed. I think the developer is open to any of that and I'm pretty sure I read some feature request. It's just that the focus currently is on other things. And Piefed works well as an progressive web app. You can open it in your browser and click "Add to home screen" and you'll get an icon and a browser window that pretty much feels like an app. I'm using that and also don't see any benefit in putting in the effort to maintain an app, when it works well as is.

db0 ,
@db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

The only thing piefed needs for an app is a flask rest framework. It’d not hard

lvxferre ,
@lvxferre@mander.xyz avatar

I know that I shouldn’t, but…

Off-topic: why Nutomic's comment is idioticIt’s a big false dichotomy. As a class, the bourgeoisie only cares about staying in power. Everything else from its PoV is fluff, to be situationally used or opposed. And that applies to the trans cause. The bourgeoisie is weakly opposed to trans rights because they get in the way of reproductive labour (trans people are less likely to have children, so they aren’t pumping out as many new proletariats as cis people do). However that opposition is not strong enough to make the bourgeoisie ignore pink money, since pink money is still money and money is still power under capitalism. It’s also worth noting that the bourgeoisie doesn’t just compete for power with the other two classes (proletariat and petit-bourgeoisie) - it also competes internally. And for that, different factions within the class will seek external support from different groups, and align their discourses to those. In that situation, what do you expect to see? The bourgeoisie flinging back and forth between lip service towards LGBTQ+ people+communities, and a transphobic discourse. Rainbow-wash something today (it’s a cheap and effective marketing tactic!), go transphobic tomorrow; business A plops up a trans flag, business B tears it down. Flush, repeat. And, well, it’s exactly what you see here. I also encourage specifically Trotskyists to read this text, as it explains way better than I could how the transgender agenda and class struggle are not orthogonal in nature. (Stalinists: be warned that Sybil Davis rambles quite a bit against Stalinism.) And… on a moral level, let’s be frank - you need to be inconsistent like a puddle of jelly, to be a communist but not defend trans rights. At the end of the day, what a good communist should defend is freedom of oppression; and what are those LGBTQ+ activists saying, if not “we don’t want to be oppressed based on gender, sex and sexuality”? It’s all about human rights dammit.

On-topic: I think that the “forums side of the Fediverse” (nowadays mostly Lemmy and Kbin/Mbin) would benefit immensely from additional platforms; that’s why I’m excited for projects like PieFed and SubLinks. I am grateful for the Lemmy software but I can’t help but see the people in charge of the project as a liability.

And they would still be a liability even if they had any skill building a healthy community (they don’t, they suck at it). Relying on a single platform is like putting all your eggs within the same basket, once that basket goes down everything breaks.

Achyu , (edited )

The bourgeoisie would only care about profits and maintaining their power, right? They’d be both pro-lgbtqia+ and anti-lgbtqia+ if it gets them profit and/or pushes attention away from their misuse of power.
Like selling Che Geuvara T-shirts, while running propaganda against him.

Or are they seeing transphobia as mainly a reaction of religion/conservativeness? Even then a part of the bourgeoisie would try to profit off them, right?

Or did they respond as such because they saw the bait-y bourgeoisie remark(there are screenshots of the convo in the comments there)?

Would be good to see their response other than a screenshot of one reply in their private message convo.

maegul ,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

Yea I think this is the context of their comment. Compared to buttressing capitalism, being pro or against trans people is neither here nor there as far as major coordinated missions from the bourgeoisie (or mainstream or whatever).

That they seem to think the boxer in question was biological make is likely off/inaccurate AFAICT, but that’s a moving story and not following it closely is no major issue I’d say.

Some insensitive or inappropriate language is going on here maybe. But I wouldn’t know and would want to defer to trans people to guide any understanding.

viking ,
@viking@infosec.pub avatar

Without context, that comment sounds ok to me?

Quill7513 ,

Okay. I’ll remember you’re a transphobe for later.

You know trans people as oppressed people are allies against our oppressors, right? Not granting them personhood benefits the bourgeoisie

j4k3 , (edited )
@j4k3@lemmy.world avatar

You’re not contextualizing reasonably here. The bourgeoisie in his context meaning, the capitalist class. It is just a comment about how it has tilted to fashionable to support LGBT. That is a reasonable statement. Participation in events is a controversial subject for many. Personally I believe gendered sports should be entirely eliminated in favor of singular combined competition of humans, but I’m a giant dude that loves cycling, where a little woman could have a real advantage over someone like me. I find sports that lack such diverse nuance somewhat outdated.

Many might not see the two party system of the USA as what it presents itself as internally. It is not hard to say, this is a one party system that wears two masks and be entirely uninterested in which clown color mask faces forward at the moment.

I see indifference. I see neutrality. I don’t see two sides of a conversation with transparency that qualifies the accusation friend. Feel free to post with transparency though.

jeffw ,
@jeffw@lemmy.world avatar

Maybe you need the context of all the transphobic shit that’s happened lately, like the Olympics boxing stuff? Idk, it still seems transphobic without context. No clue who this guy is though

Quill7513 ,

Lead Lemmy dev

Zaktor ,

The context is they’re positively stating the “men in women’s sports” part of that exchange.

lemmy.ca/comment/10767763

s08nlql9 ,

I thought you mistyped PixelFed lol. Good to see there’s another Lemmy clone like sublinks.

maegul , (edited )
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

So, for context

  • this is one of admins of lemmy . ml.
  • that instance’s first rule is

No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia.

  • This person is also one of the core devs of lemmy

Because, IMO, fedi drama is almost always overstated and overblown, especially when it comes to specific “incidents” … because we’ve gotten addicted to social media drama/rage …

I’ll provide my own impression without any context, pretending I’m a relevant moderator

  • it seems they’re challenging the notion that the same culture can be both pro-trans and anti-trans at the same time.
  • which seems superficial unless it’s about a specific incident
  • they seem to think that the Olympic boxer that’s caused an incident is actually born biologically male but is a trans female, and cite as much as proof that the west is not wholly anti-trans
  • my own impression is that the boxer being biologically male is mostly rumour and accusation, but I’m not close to the story at all and can understand how someone not following the olympics would conclude that they’re trans
  • without context I’m not sure I could conclude whether this is transphobic, at all actually.
  • Probably misinformed, but I’m also not informed on that issue, which also seems to be a moving “story”.
  • The user’s perspective is also relevant here, where being a known communist, they’re likely to think anything the west does is flawed and always boils down to class issues.
  • so given that it’s a sensitive topic, I’d follow up the comment with an attempt to frame the sensitivity of the issue and ask the author to consider editing their comment or reconsidering their stance just to flag the potentially transphobic reading of the comment.

Here’s the killer though … this seems like it’s a private message in response to a query … in which case I’m not sure there’s any moderation to be done and without more I’m not convinced this transphobic at all.

spiderman ,

what if they are turned out to be like this or hate other set of people? lemmy by design is defederated so even if the devs are like this, you can just simply call out them or leave their lemmy server lol. i am sure there are trans friendly lemmy servers out here.

as long as lemmy by design is against any sorta people, you dont have to boycott it.

MxRemy ,

Woww wtf!!

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