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Lemmy.ml tankie censorship problem

I feel like we need to talk about Lemmy’s massive tankie censorship problem. A lot of popular lemmy communities are hosted on lemmy.ml. It’s been well known for a while that the admins/mods of that instance have, let’s say, rather extremist and onesided political views. In short, they’re what’s colloquially referred to as tankies. This wouldn’t be much of an issue if they didn’t regularly abuse their admin/mod status to censor and silence people who dissent with their political beliefs and for example, post things critical of China, Russia, the USSR, socialism, …

As an example, there was a thread today about the anniversary of the Tiananmen Massacre. When I was reading it, there were mostly posts critical of China in the thread and some whataboutist/denialist replies critical of the USA and the west. In terms of votes, the posts critical of China were definitely getting the most support.

I posted a comment in this thread linking to “archive.ph/2020.07.12-074312/https://…/AIIbbPs” (WARNING: graphical content), which describes aspects of the atrocities that aren’t widely known even in the West, and supporting evidence. My comment was promptly removed for violating the “Be nice and civil” rule. When I looked back at the thread, I noticed that all posts critical of China had been removed while the whataboutist and denialist comments were left in place.

This is what the modlog of the instance looks like:

https://feddit.nl/pictrs/image/6886b092-43d3-408b-ab57-2fa686f8a6c7.png

Definitely a trend there wouldn’t you say?

When I called them out on their one sided censorship, with a screenshot of the modlog above, I promptly received a community ban on all communities on lemmy.ml that I had ever participated in.

Proof:

https://feddit.nl/pictrs/image/9c52e470-645f-46ba-ac1d-0b7d8be17af3.png

So many of you will now probably think something like: “So what, it’s the fediverse, you can use another instance.”

The problem with this reasoning is that many of the popular communities are actually on lemmy.ml, and they’re not so easy to replace. I mean, in terms of content and engagement lemmy is already a pretty small place as it is. So it’s rather pointless sitting for example in /c/[email protected] where there’s nobody to discuss anything with.

I’m not sure if there’s a solution here, but I’d like to urge people to avoid lemmy.ml hosted communities in favor of communities on more reasonable instances.

Thorny_Insight ,

I usually refrain from replying to threads on those instances and when possible use the non-.ml equivalent

thesocavault ,
@thesocavault@lemmy.world avatar

As being new to Lemmy, I do understand what you are saying. There is no balance of conversation - it’s I’m taking my ball and going home type of thing.

Rather not all cases, but it does happen.

**People just want a good conversation **

Blaze ,
@Blaze@reddthat.com avatar

**People just want a good conversation **

Feel free to join at !casualconversation

AncientMariner ,

Use communities on lemm.ee which will have both left and right wing folk. Or if you want to avoid left altogether, Lemmy.world communities, and there are lots of them.

Lemm.ee is something we need to nurture. Great admins that try to avoid their personal biases.

ssm , (edited )
@ssm@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Sorry, I can’t stand tankies, but tankies are still a lot more rational than the average US conservative these days. Conservative opinions should be censored and don’t need a voice on this platform. “Everyone should have a voice, no matter how destructive and irrational” is its own extreme opinion.

pyre ,

tankies are not “left”. they’re basically fascists with a leftist paint job. they use some left-related words to propagate right-wing views.

Kaboom ,

Left wing doesnt mean good. It just means left wing. Mao and Stalin were left wing.

Right wing doesnt mean bad. It just means right wing. Your average blue collar worker is right wing.

ShitOnABrick , (edited )
@ShitOnABrick@lemmy.world avatar

No tankies are authotarian left to be exact the term tankie is refering to those who believe in authotarian socialism (communism) they advocate for authotarian left wing policy’s . And conservative views such as family values rule of law property rights populism (caring about the wants and needs of the every day man) aren’t fascist opinions.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie?wprov=sfla1

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism?wprov=sfla1

www.dictionary.com/browse/populism

Noun British

a political strategy based on a calculated appeal to the interests or prejudices of ordinary people

pyre ,

first of all i didn’t talk about conservatism so that part is irrelevant… second of all, it doesn’t matter what anyone calls it, but “authoritarian socialism/communism” is an oxymoron; which is fitting because tankie ideology is nonsensical just like fascism.

when it comes down to it, the left wing is against social hierarchy and right wing is for it. “authoritarian left” doesn’t make sense; it’s just a way to refer to nonsense like tankie ideology… right wing ideology wrapped in leftist language.

urska ,

Cant talk about shit nowadays that the left doesnt want to. Europe and Canada are being invaded by muslims and indians where they are already making demands without being citizens and creating social havoc. Cant criticize Israel either.

Hadriscus ,

Oh no please not this shit

urska ,

Thanks for proving my point.

Hadriscus ,

Look, I’d love to discuss, but usually with this kind of bigotry it amounts to pissing in a violin. There’s no room for hate in my world

Hadriscus ,

You’re free to talk all you like, in fact -but you’re going to be rightfully considered a dipshit. It comes with the territory. Be prepared, my fragile friend.

barsoap ,

s/about /bull/

i_ben_fine ,

Would rather have .ml or hexbear than whatever this is

assassin_aragorn ,

Yeah it was only a matter of time before you explicitly lumped Indians into the persona non grata list. I always knew you guys would eventually just say “fuck all brown people”. This is exactly why Indians born in the West to Indian immigrants have strong solidarity with other brown people regardless of their religion. We don’t trust you conservatives and never will.

You came invaded our ancestral country, subjugated us, stole our natural resources, and divided us. You still have items you stole from us in your museums. And you have the audacity to say that Indians and Muslims are invading Europe after Europe invaded us and stole from us.

Naw. This is why we’re on the left. Fuck you all. If you say we’re invading you, then fuck it. We are invading you, and we’ve raised “anchor babies” as sleeper cell spies – and we’re going to save the West from you pathetic conservative colonizers.

Strawberry ,

i love it when racist Europeans show their ass

barsoap ,

I’d like to note for the record that I downvoted you not for using the term “racist”, that definitely seems to be an accurate assessment, but for saying “European”. For one, a European racist wouldn’t care about Canada, for two, Indians aren’t really a large or noticeable or denigrated immigrant group anywhere in Europe but maybe the UK, and for three, UK racists wouldn’t care about “the continent”.

No, what we’re looking at here seems to be a Canadian racist. They can keep them.

Snowpix ,
@Snowpix@lemmy.ca avatar

As a Canadian, we don’t want him either. How about we dump 'em in the ocean?

barsoap ,

Hmm… Gulag on Hans’ Island?

Snowpix ,
@Snowpix@lemmy.ca avatar

We’ll have to ask Denmark and see what they think. I’m sure they won’t mind…

Strawberry ,

ok

merthyr1831 ,

go back to reddit if you want to live in the bubble of “America does nothing wrong”

SpaceCadet OP ,
@SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

Living in the bubble of “CCP did nothing wrong (and we will ban you from all your favorite communities if you dare to disagree)” isn’t exactly a great alternative.

Hadriscus ,

See, I don’t think anybody says that

Belastend ,

Showing pictures of the protesters murdered at TS is absolving the US of all wrong i guess.

Snowpix ,
@Snowpix@lemmy.ca avatar

This is a classic strawman argument. Nobody is reasonably arguing “Americs does nothing wrong”. Criticism of the East is not implicit support for the West, nor vice versa. Turns out, both can be wrong. Ain’t that a surprise?

masquenox ,

When I was reading it, there were mostly posts critical of China in the thread and some whataboutist/denialist replies

You complain about the tankies’ whataboutist replies “critical of the USA and the west” - yet your very first comment up there proves that you, too, were very quick to bring the west into a discussion about Tiananmen.

but I’d like to urge people to avoid lemmy.ml hosted communities in favor of communities on more reasonable instances.

You think the liberal hive mind here on lemmy.world is (somehow) more “reasonable” than the views held by tankies?

By what metrics are you measuring this (alleged) “reasonable-ness”?

stephen01king ,

There are lots of comments on that thread trying to divert the issue by pointing out the violence done by the western countries. I would assume his comment was in response to one of these comments, so he wouldn’t be the one to bring up the West into the discussion.

masquenox ,

There are lots of comments on that thread trying to divert the issue by pointing out the violence done by the western countries

Yeah, I know - me (and all the other leftists) were dealing with tankies long before these libs even knew what the term tankie meant.

A liberal showing up and pretending that the west (supposedly) puts “attention on those misdeeds to ensure future generations don’t repeat the mistakes” is an utterly fallacious piece of propaganda that any leftist is going to debunk hard no matter what is being discussed. All they actually achieved is to give the tankies a justification to divert the issue.

I have no idea why libs think they are politically competent enough to argue with tankies - they aren’t even competent enough to deal with their alt-right cousins.

SpaceCadet OP ,
@SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

I didn’t react to any of the “but the West also…” comments. I replied directly to the top level of the post, linking to an article that goes in depth on what actually happened as most people in the West nowadays only know about the iconic tank man image.

stringere ,

We found the thin skinned tankie.

masquenox ,

Oh, look… a liberal that doesn’t know what the term tankie means.

Yawn.

AhismaMiasma ,

You appear to be lacking critical thickness in the rolled homogeneous armor of your Type 57.

masquenox ,

Oh, look… another liberal that doesn’t know what the term tankie means.

Is there any one of you libs that have a smidgen of political competence to demonstrate here?

AhismaMiasma ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    masquenox ,

    Yeah, you just happen to buy into liberal claptrap for reasons that are totally not the same as every other liberal that hates having their ideology named and shamed.

    Okay, totally-not-a-liberal.

    archpope ,

    Hmmm… I just got here so I haven’t seen it in action, but if true, far left mods abusing their power to censor and ban people they disagree with? Where have I Redd it before?

    ID411 ,

    I’m sure you meant to say “thank you for pioneering an alternative to Reddit so people had a home when Reddit sharted “

    Chozo ,

    Both can be true.

    palordrolap ,

    Yep. When I was migrating, I saw some advice to avoid Lemmy on account of its provenance, which is how I ended up on Kbin instead.

    Unfortunately, it's not going well on the original instance (getting in before "how's that working out for you"), but for reasons very different to lemmy.ml.

    Still don't have a lemmy account, but I am, for my sins, subscribed to communities there. Like this one.

    ArcaneSlime ,

    And hitler made the trains run on time, but fuck both him and desalinator.

    boredtortoise ,

    Time for them to move on to a new hobby then, surely there are more sane people to take over the development

    it_depends_man ,

    So many of you will now probably think something like: “So what, it’s the fediverse, you can use another instance.”

    Yes.

    The problem with this reasoning is that many of the popular communities are actually on lemmy.ml, and they’re not so easy to replace.

    To whom?

    If people agree with you, they will move and block and defederate. And if they don’t they don’t.

    Sounds like a “you” problem.

    Their server, their rules. If they want to run a political censorship social platform, they can and it’s totally ok if they un-invite you.

    SpaceCadet OP ,
    @SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

    Network effect is a thing.

    rufus ,

    You’re 100% right OP. Don’t let the people tell you it’s a you problem and you should leave. It’s exactly like you said (in my opinion.) If at all, it’s the bad people who should leave. Not the nice ones and the ones calling out the bullshit.

    Nothing changes if the just people keep silent and let bigotry or whatever just happen. It just makes the whole place become worse. And I’d say it’s warranted to speak up or do something. And as far as I heard you’re not the only one complaining.

    db0 ,
    @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    When I called them out on their one sided censorship, with a screenshot of the modlog above, I promptly received a community ban on all communities on lemmy.ml that I had ever participated in.

    Note that this is likely just an automated script to ensure all your comments are removed from lemmy.ml before being sitebanned, as sitebanning doesn’t remove all content.

    ZILtoid1991 ,

    What is their Rule 1?

    blackn1ght ,

    “Be nice and civil” - which is a fair enough rule, but it’s always used as a blanket ban. Most of the removed comments weren’t hostile or uncivil

    The thread was posted into the memes community too so there’s always going to be a bit of banter, but most comments that weren’t in support of China were removed.

    RogueSensei ,
    @RogueSensei@lemmy.world avatar

    “No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia.” - plus a link to the lemmy Code of conduct

    ZILtoid1991 ,

    Someone should write an honest version of it.

    higgsboson ,

    They include anything less than fawning over CCP under “xenophobia”.

    barsquid ,

    “Don’t write any facts about China.”

    higgsboson ,
    1. Be a tankie
    2. Dont not be a tankie
    Linkerbaan ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    Lemmy.world heavily censors criticism of israel over at /politics and /news

    .ml is far less tankie than .world.

    Duke_Nukem_1990 ,

    Describe to me what you think a tankie is.

    Linkerbaan ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    A person so brainwashed by their government that they will deny war crimes from said government and actively participate in censoring and lying about them in order to spread propaganda.

    Duke_Nukem_1990 ,

    Do you think you maybe missed an important classification there? Do you think Hitlers followers were Tankies?

    Linkerbaan ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    Of course not. Nazis are rather honest about their intentions. You don’t hear Nazis saying “No actually we didn’t kill ze Jews, we really like them very much”. If a Nazi supporter would actually say that previous sentence I would classify them as a Tankie.

    The original definition is used to “distinguish party members who spoke out in defense of the Soviet use of tanks to suppress the Hungarian Revolution of 1956 and the 1968 Prague Spring”

    So you can try to deny it being about supporting war crimes by slapping on more labels but that would just backfire as CCP posters suddenly aren’t tankies anymore.

    Duke_Nukem_1990 ,

    Of course not. Nazis are rather honest about their intentions. You don’t hear Nazis saying “No actually we didn’t kill ze Jews, we really like them very much”.

    Riiight, that’s why it is necessary for the denial of the Holocaust to be a serious criminal offense in Germany, cause Nazis totally don’t deny it happened.

    You don’t seem to be intelectually honest in this at all, so bye.

    Linkerbaan ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    Right, try to deflect to strawman and dip. If you can’t even tell the difference between a Neo Nazi and a Nazi then don’t bring it up.

    fuckingkangaroos ,

    Linkerbaan spreading more lies. Glad I have you tagged as “shill” so it’s easy to recognize you.

    takeheart ,

    How do you tag another user? Did you just mean you left a mental note or is it possible to assign custom tags to users somehow?

    fuckingkangaroos ,

    I use two apps to access Lemmy and both allow me to save notes/tag users. Maybe if you click their username you’ll see the option.

    If you see accounts pushing agendas, you can tag with a note about their bias.

    takeheart ,

    That sounds like a useful feature. Which apps are you using?

    mzesumzira ,
    @mzesumzira@leminal.space avatar

    One of them is definitely Sync, don’t know about others

    fuckingkangaroos ,

    Connect and Boost

    Linkerbaan ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    At the start of the Genocide debunking any israeli lie was absolutely forbidden over at /world. Muh beheaded babies. Muh mass rapes. Oh wait you still can’t mention that israel lied about the mass rapes because israel themselves hasn’t admitted they lied about it yet. Despite the overwhelming evidence that israel lied about it. If you do you get permabanned for “antisemitism”.

    MBFC only by the way, gotta make sure the site says that UNRWA = Hamas to be reliable!

    The place is ran by Liberal Zionists.

    Alpha71 ,

    Np offense but so what? nothing you post on there is going to change anything, anywhere. You’re shouting into a vacuum.

    lltnskyc ,

    You don’t see even a bit of hypocrisy in that? Holy shit…
    I have exactly the same complaint about lemmy.world - it’s censuring everything that doesn’t align with leftist views (and on the other hand, when I post on lemmy.ml it’s usually not deleted).
    Oh I know, I know, let me guess, they are censoring people because they are evil and authoritarian and are bad people, but you are censuring people because you are all democratic and for freedom and so on and anyway the ones that get censored are tankies and fascists and russian bots/propagandists?..
    knowyourmeme.com/…/2355607-our-blessed-homeland-t…

    zbyte64 ,

    Yeah, very ironic that deleting misinformation is equated to deleting accurate information.

    lltnskyc ,

    Oh yeah definitely, I forgot that one - everything they say is a misinformation, no matter the included sources and any proofs, and everything we say is the purest truth possible!
    Seriously, it’s like the meme was created exactly for this post 🙃

    zbyte64 ,

    everything we say is the purest truth possible!

    People obsessed with purity will think like that.

    aleph ,
    @aleph@lemm.ee avatar

    It’s not exactly the same complaint at all. You got a single comment removed from a single thread by a single moderator.

    The equivalent would be if the admin of lemmy.world stepped in and not only banned you from World News but also every single other LW community you posted in, out of spite.

    lltnskyc ,

    Okay, that’s fair enough.
    Still, complaining about censorship while engaging in censorship is hypocritical 🤷

    delirium ,
    @delirium@lemmy.world avatar

    That’s a con and a pro of decentralized net: if you don’t like the owner, pick another instance or create your own and be the king. Bad news is, every instance is controlled by couple regular folks who’re not responsible financially so they can imply their own rules and post and ban whatever they want.

    Like the jungle: you gotta learn to survive and avoid the monkeys with rabies.

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