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Kalkaline , in This is probably a dumb question, but if we eliminate the hydrophobia caused by rabies, would it increase the survival rate of active rabies?
@Kalkaline@leminal.space avatar

The “cure” for rabies is to treat it with a vaccine prior to symptoms appearing. The rabbies vaccine is 100% effective and you will not become symptomatic if you treat soon after the bite. The Milwaukee protocol has been tried and it’s a last ditch effort for people who didn’t get the vaccine shortly after the bite and are now showing symptoms. They don’t even know if the Milwaukee Protocol is what prevented death or if the people it worked on were somehow resistant to rabies.

Anticorp ,

Why can’t we just get a rabies vaccine when we’re kids, or every few years, like most other vaccines? Why does it have to be after the bite event?

Kalkaline ,
@Kalkaline@leminal.space avatar

Because unless you’re living and working in a high risk environment, there’s no need for a human to go get a rabies vaccine because they can just avoid mammals that are acting strangely. It’s not like it’s airborne, you have to get a penetrating bite from a symptomatic animal to get it, so when that happens you just go to the doctor. You’d still likely get the vaccine even after a bite even if you had been previously vaccinated.

Anticorp ,

What if you’re backpacking or something when you get bit? How long of a safety window do you have between getting bit and getting the vaccine?

Kalkaline ,
@Kalkaline@leminal.space avatar

Incubation period is as little as a week, but as great as a year. You would want to be vaccinated ASAP because otherwise it’s a death sentence.

Anticorp ,

Thanks!

howrar , (edited )

Considering that it has to go through the belly button, I’d rather not, thanks.

This is apparently not the case anymore since the 1980s.

emergencyfood ,

Modern rabies vaccines are injected into the upper arm.

howrar ,

Oh, that’s good to know. Thanks.

emergencyfood ,

Vets and people who work in animal shelters often get the rabies vaccines beforehand. But even if you have been vaccinated previously, you still have to get it again if you are bitten.

Anticorp ,

Then what’s the point of getting it beforehand?

Senshi ,

The efficacy of vaccines usually declines over time after administration. The immune system starts to “forget” how to fight a pathogen it doesn’t encounter. It doesn’t completely forget, but it puts the treatment data way back in the archives. So when it encounters the real deal, it can take quite a while to boot up production of antibodies. It also varies by the type of disease.

This is fine for some slow diseases ( which is why sometimes a single vaccination can suffice ), but can be risky if the disease progresses faster than the immune system can ramp up the defenses.

Administering the vaccine as soon as possible after suspected exposure to deadly or highly contagious diseases simply helps the immune system to get the necessary blueprints to get in the fight quicker.

Administering the vaccine before any exposure at regular, long intervals is done to decrease the baseline risk. Sometimes you don’t know you have been infected. Many diseases are not only transmitted by dramatic, obvious vectors. In those cases, it’s definitely better to have some old defense than none at all.

Anticorp ,

Thank you for the in-depth explanation! I appreciate it.

emergencyfood ,

In addition to what Senshi said, if you have recieved the full course of vaccines (4-5 doses spread over a month), any future bites need only 1-3 doses. Also the time within which you have to take the first dose increases from 24 hours to 2-3 days, which can be quite useful to vets in remote places.

amio , in This is probably a dumb question, but if we eliminate the hydrophobia caused by rabies, would it increase the survival rate of active rabies?

No. Rabies is destroying neurons, causing the symptoms. The hydrophobia is not literal fear of water (like phobias so often aren't) but a result of your brain being fried to the point where you have issues swallowing. If it were an issue of hydration, just IV fluids would be a given, and you would probably want IV access anyway.

Not a doctor or anything, though.

wahming , in Have we been able to reproduce the conditions to bend rocks? (Even if in a lab.)

Do rocks bend? Pretty sure they just melt, that’s where lava comes from.

remotelove OP ,

Rocks bend and it’s mind boggling to see the scale that it can happen at.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fold_(geology)

In these cases the rock may be hot, but it’s not molten. I was even just reading that many rocks will not have any internal stresses from being bent because of the forces and the time that is involved.

wahming ,

Neat!

CanadaPlus ,

Nope. The mantle is mostly solid. It’s just so huge and, under intense pressure and heat, bendy, that it still facilitates moving continents and ocean plates.

FreudianCafe , in Have we been able to reproduce the conditions to bend rocks? (Even if in a lab.)

Really depends on how strict you are in those definitions. Details asside, if you twist a metal fork this is technically bending a rock

remotelove OP ,

It is loosely defined from my perspective, but I am curious about harder rocks, like granite. Your standard everyday rock tends to be much more brittle and may not have a high metal content. (It will likely have iron in one form or another though.)

Most metals and rocks are crystals in their “normal” state, so I see what you are getting at.

XTL ,

A crystal oscillator is an everyday very small hard bendy piece of quartz. Does that count? It’s not very visible other than the side effects.

A piezoelectric transducer would be another. That might even show on a mechanical gauge.

remotelove OP ,

Your username is basically the notation for a crystal oscillator, so it’s gotta count. (Damn the rules!) Quartz is a rock that bends for a commercial purpose, so thats a really good answer, actually.

Glimpythegoblin ,

Quartz is a mineral. Jesus Marie!

remotelove OP ,

Ok, smart guy, take a bite of it then. I dare you.

Seriously though, for this topic, it’s something that rocks can contain. I can’t deny there is a little bit of word jumbling going on though.

Glimpythegoblin ,

Lmao I’m sorry. It’s a breaking bad reference.

remotelove OP ,

My bad, I didn’t realize. Well played.

CanadaPlus ,

That’s elastic deformation, so no, it’s very much not an answer.

FireTower , in Have we been able to reproduce the conditions to bend rocks? (Even if in a lab.)
@FireTower@lemmy.world avatar
CanadaPlus , (edited )

Neat! That’s a very specific, chain-like example, though, so not really in the spirit of the question even if correct to the letter. I’m also not sure what it does in the actual plastic deformation regime.

neptune , in Have we been able to reproduce the conditions to bend rocks? (Even if in a lab.)

Creep is the mechanism you refer to. Yes absolutely scientists can replicate creep in the lab. You too can at home by leaving butter on the counter and watching it bend under its own weight at room temperature after a few days.

At about 1/2 or 2/3 of the melting temp and above, materials start to behave kind of funny.

CanadaPlus ,

Are you aware of any examples using a common rock, specifically?

neptune ,

No

remotelove OP , (edited )

The glass transition temperature of quartz is 1200°C, and according to the charts I could find, is outside crust and upper mantle temperature ranges. (That is just based on averages, I believe. Heat from friction may be in a different category.)

Edit: The melting temperature is ~1700°C. It probably starts to get malleable around 1200°C. I was confused about the term “glass transition” due to some of my hobbies and likely does not apply.

Other silicon-type rocks (like gypsum; opposed to quartz) have wildly different glass transition temperatures in the 200°C range. That seems feasible to bend in a lab and could be in-scope.

Still, quartz can fold: researchgate.net/…/a-to-c-Folded-quartz-veins-wit…

I think that creep is not the same as folding but the two conditions could easily be related?

(I am just regurgitating data points I have only just found and there is probably much more to this.)

CanadaPlus ,

Hmm. I’m going to have to look up how you model glass bending, if that’s how it works. I wonder if you could do this in a garage setting, even. I’m not surprised a calcium mineral is less resistant to it, they seen less hardcore in general or something.

remotelove OP , (edited )

Glass is a weird one since it’s an amorphous solid.

Excuse, me though. I might be mixing up my definition of “glass transition”. It’s a term used for plastics (and other amorphous solids) when they start to becomes malleable.

In the above case, I think I tried to apply it to quartz which is incorrect. The temperature ranges are still in the ball park of my intent.

Kyrgizion , in Do we have any theories as to why complex life eventually started requiring various metal elements as micronutrients?

The answer is almost certainly “because it was available” but that doesn’t exactly explain much.

CrayonRosary ,

But that’s all that can be said. Life is random. There is no “why”. The body uses zinc because it can.

CanadaPlus , (edited )

Depends how you’re using “why”. In Russian, they actually have two words for why, one of which implies teleology, and one which doesn’t, and merely requests some explanation for a phenomenon. I wish we had that in English.

In this case, it’s such a general question you can’t do much better, but you could, for example, talk about why oxygen-carrying proteins pretty much always incorporate an ion of something, in a merely cause-and-effect way. (And I actually don’t know the answer to that one)

CrayonRosary ,

In English we can use “How”.

The answer to the question, “How did this evolve?”, is the same as the answer to a non-teleological “why”. People just need to learn to use “how” because “why” is such a loaded word.

When using “how” in this sense and “why” in the non-teleological sense, they have the exact same meaning (at least to my ear), but then the “how” version isn’t ambiguous.

If I say to myself, “How did this evolve?”, the question feels good. It feels clear, and my mind leaps into thinking about the function of the mineral in the body and the chain of evolutionary steps that could have caused it.

If I say to myself “Why did this evolve?”, I just can’t get the teleology sense of the word out of my head. If someone didn’t want a teleological answer, why did they say “why” when “how” is clearly better? So I assume they mean why.

I feel like even if I answered their question, the next one would be, “Yeah, but why?” Making me feel like I wasted my time explaining the “how”.

CanadaPlus ,

That’s might be an option too, I guess, but in some situations it’s a different question. If I make a mistake and you ask “how”, you might just get more details. If you ask “why” I might respond with “I was tired”, which doesn’t really imply teleology. As I understand it почему would be more specific to cause rather than just means, but then again my Russian is pretty basic. The word “how” would be как, and it even works as an intensifier the same way.

CrayonRosary ,

Yeah, I was focused on science questions since this is a science questions community. It’s not universal advice.

snooggums ,
@snooggums@midwest.social avatar

Animals whose biology that used the metals reproduced more successfully is the explanation. It could longer lives, better reproductive outcomes, or a ton of other reasons but it all comes down to reproduction.

CanadaPlus ,

Well, genes, if we want to get really technical. Otherwise you can find counterexamples where genes are detrimental to the organism, but manage to spread anyway do to some quirk.

snooggums ,
@snooggums@midwest.social avatar

Generally they don’t impact the reproduction rate enough.

Let’s take reproductive cycles as an example of there being no single benefit or negative. Some species reproduce in mass quantities and that works for them, while others are slower. The fast one having genes that slow reproduction would probably die out because their adaptation of mass reproduction is what keeps them around. A slower reproducing species won’t necessarily benefit from higher rates as they might overpopulate their range. So what looks like a detriment could just be a thing that neither benefits nor is a detriment depending on the complex context of the species and where they live.

And sometimes detriment are offset by other benefits, like sickle cell anemia having some terrible outcomes but it also protects against malaria so in the context of somewhere with a high rate of malaria it is beneficial to survive to a reproductive age, which would explain it sticking around.

CanadaPlus ,

Ah, so you haven’t heard about this thing. It’s not really lucky 10,000 territory, but it’s still cool.

There are situations, where in sexually reproducing organisms, an unambiguously bad gene can spread through the population, just by ensuring it’s more likely to appear in the next generation. As long as it’s not so bad it kills the species off, you’re still likely to observe it a lot in a future population. We’ve actually harnessed this idea technologically, with genetically modified mosquitoes that crash their local population by skewing all offspring malewards.

Richard Dawkins wrote a pop-sci book about it. Here’s a list of examples on Wikipedia.

snooggums ,
@snooggums@midwest.social avatar

That is one example of ‘not detrimental enough to impact reproduction’ which I meant in the context of a population and not an individual, but I guess that my wording wasn’t clear enough.

PrinceWith999Enemies , (edited )

Theoretical biologist here. I’m going to push back on that just a bit. I think that you might have mentioned Selfish Gene, too. That was not the best book even at the time of publication (most biologists had a number of problems with it oversimplifying in a way that’s probably similar to what anthropologists think about Guns Germs and Steel). It also has been getting worse the more we learn.

Evolution acts on the phenotype, not the genotype. It affects the gene makeup of the population through differential reproduction rates. “Fitness” can be measured as a value relative to the rest of the population specifically by using the number of offspring. So what I’m saying here is that all factors that affect phenotype, whether genes or other factors, affect evolution.

So, of course genes are important. But you have epigenetic factors, too. link here You also have extensive non-coding regions that regulate transcription. You have rna editing. And so on.

If you’re interested, I would highly recommend a book called How Life Works by Phillip Ball. It was just published in November and is an outstanding summary of how much our understanding of life has evolved (heh) in the last 20 years or so.

CanadaPlus ,

Well, you would know a lot better. And thanks for the reading recommendation.

What are your thoughts on viruses as a form of life? Asking what natural selection is in exact terms is pretty closely related to asking what life is, since life is probably some subset of things that can do natural selection.

PrinceWith999Enemies ,

Personally, I do think of viruses as a form of life, and although it’s not universally held by any means, I think there’s a growing consensus around the idea.

That’s probably as minimalistic as I would go, though. I mean, you can make a similar argument to some extent about prions, but prions are too close to being “just chemistry” for me.

Viruses on the other hand cooperate and compete in complex ecosystems, which in my opinion magnifies the complexity of a virus as an element of a complex adaptive system. They don’t have a metabolism as such (which is why so many don’t consider them living), but their ability to conduct theft of resources of more complex and obviously living systems makes me push them to group of living things.

One of the nearest things about biology is that there’s always an exception to the rules and examples, and the simplifications we make when teaching bio 101 are really best learned as rules of thumb. Things like what a “gene” really is, the operation of selection, and even what constitutes a “species” can lead to some really interesting discussions.

CanadaPlus , (edited )

A few fields are a bit like that. I remember my chemistry teacher in high school saying something similar.

As mostly a math person, it kind of bugs me. There definitely is one set of rules that a field obeys, and while it’s usually necessary to simplify I’d really like to know how not to. Sure, water is mostly incompressible, but it’s not exactly so, and that’s how sound works and can translate to other mediums. And then once you get down to small scales, high energies or low pressures you start seeing the individual water molecules being relevant and doing all kinds of different things. Those factors were always there, even if they weren’t relevant.

Sorry, maybe that’s a bit of a rant, but all that to say I’m sure you can find a consensus on these questions eventually.

cymbal_king , in Do we have any theories as to why complex life eventually started requiring various metal elements as micronutrients?

Metal ions can perform interesting chemical reactions that organic molecules cannot. A positively charge metal ion can also naturally bind to negatively charged proteins. So the organisms that more successfully took advantage of these chemical reactions reproduced more effectively than the organisms that didn’t.

CanadaPlus , in Do we have any theories as to why complex life eventually started requiring various metal elements as micronutrients?

I’m guessing the main reason is “why not”. It’s in the environment, and one day some critter mutated a new process that involved it.

It’s not just complex life, either. Bacteria use all kinds of strange elements in various enzymes and complexes.

giriinthejungle , in Do we have any theories as to why complex life eventually started requiring various metal elements as micronutrients?

Also, metals can easily accommodate varying number of electrons in the electron shells of their atoms and still be stable. That makes them very good to quickly store and release electrons which means they can help say transfer molecules around (iron for transport of gasses), scavenge free radicals (e.g. manganese) etc.

GnomeKat , in Have we been able to reproduce the conditions to bend rocks? (Even if in a lab.)
@GnomeKat@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Yes… can even make a slinky…

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h3r4BUFES0

remotelove OP , (edited )

That is actually more of an illusion that is exploiting any bit of natural flexibility over a given length.

If you took a circle of rock that is 30cm in diameter, cut it into a spiral at a width of 5mm, you get a length of rock that is now about 14m, but in a coil.

So, if the material had a flex of 1mm per half meter, you would see a total deviation of about 28mm from end to end. The “illusion” part is that while it’s only flexing a small amount, you can see the entire range of flex at once.

It’s still a spring, but it hasn’t actually been significantly bent or reformed. Also, it’s still really cool.

Harbinger01173430 , in Have we been able to reproduce the conditions to bend rocks? (Even if in a lab.)

You mean you can’t do earth bending? Skill issue

Glimpythegoblin , in Have we been able to reproduce the conditions to bend rocks? (Even if in a lab.)

Sort of. I work closely with geophysics in the rock mechanics world. I don’t personally know if any machines that create folds at large scale due to the heat and pressure required but rock deformation is a big thing they do. I’ve built a few machines that do this.

Small scale experiments at the temperatures and pressures required are done using diamond anvils at extreme pressure and sometimes with laser heating.

Larger scale is done with giant hydraulic presses called triaxes that use confining pressures up to the Gigapascal level.

remotelove OP ,

Oh, rock on! (Lulz, I made a pun by mistake.)

Yeah, I never thought we could do it at a super large scale since the forces required are too massive. However, I find it funny that we actually do bend rocks, for whatever reason.

The elephant in the room is why? Based on what you described, it seems like a very specific problem that is expensive to solve and happens to be dynamic enough to merit repeated testing.

I am gonna make a wild guess for fun though…

I am guessing the reason it’s done has something to do with mining and trying to solve material density problems. If I needed to drill through a few layers of rock and I knew the material types, sticking samples of those materials in a press that simulates tectonic activity would give me a good idea what I was dealing with. That data seems like it would be key in setting feeds and speeds for expensive drills…

Glimpythegoblin ,

I am guessing the reason it’s done has something to do with mining and trying to solve material density problems.

This is definitely part of it. Oil companies have labs that run samples all day every day to study the density and porosity of rocks to see how much oil or gas they could hold when they’re trying to find new areas to drill.

Most of what I’m familiar with is research labs at universities where they are studying it to simulate tiny earthquakes. It’s just pure research to learn more about how the earth functions as a system. All rocks are different and all situations are different so the more data you collect the more you can understand exactly what happened during an earthquake and why. Maybe it can lead to better earthquake prediction or it can let us use those earthquakes to know more about the structure of the earth.

remotelove OP ,

What a kick-ass resume bullet:

Sr. Rock Bender (Nov 2019 - Current)

  • I bend rocks
TerrorBite , in What happens when you apply a force to an object at close to the speed of light?
@TerrorBite@pawb.social avatar

My main question, and the one that I initially came here to ask, is: if their ship continues applying the force that, under classical mechanics, was enough to accelerate them at 9.81 ms^-2^, would the people inside still experience Earth-like artificial gravity, even though their velocity as measured by an observer is now increasing at less than that rate?

Relativity says yes. There’s no absolute speed, only relative speed; within the local reference frame of the ship, everything will continue to work normally, including the force experienced due to acceleration.

My understanding is that a trip taken at the speed of light would actually feel instantaneous to the traveller, while taking distance/speed of light to a stationary observer.

The ship is not actually going to reach the speed of light (as seen by an outside observer) though. The faster the ship goes, the more its (observed) mass increases, and the 9.8m/s² acceleration will have less and less of an effect. But to the people inside the ship, it appears as though they can accelerate indefinitely, going faster and faster at their steady rate of acceleration. Due to relativistic effects, it’ll never look like they are passing any objects outside the ship at more than the speed of light; instead it will appear as though the distance they have to travel is compressed, so they don’t have to travel as far.

TerrorBite ,
@TerrorBite@pawb.social avatar

You can think about it this way. In relativity:

  • You’re not allowed to have any way to determine an absolute speed. If your perceived acceleration were to vary (for a constant thrust) depending on your speed, that would give you a mechanism to determine absolute speed, but absolute speed doesn’t exist in relativity.
  • Rather than “nothing can go faster than the speed of light,” given that we’ve just determined that absolute speed doesn’t exist, the next rule is instead: you are not allowed to observe anything travelling faster than the speed of light relative to you, and relativistic effects will ensure that this is so.
cynar ,

A minor nit pick. It’s worth noting that increasing mass is an inaccurate view. It works in the simple examples, but can cause confusion down the line.

Instead, an additional term is introduced. This term, while it could be combined with the mass, is actually a vector, not a scalar. It has both value and direction, not just value. This turns your relativistic mass into a vector. Your mass changes, depending on the direction of the force acting on it! Keeping it as a separate vector can improve both calculations and comprehension, since comparable terms appear elsewhere (namely with time dilation and length contraction).

zkfcfbzr , in What happens when you apply a force to an object at close to the speed of light?

Touching on the second question, since the ship would never actually reach the speed of light, the trip would not seem instantaneous to the people on board. However, the trip would seem much shorter to the people on board than it would to external observers. The people on board the ship would experience length contraction in the direction of travel making their destination closer to themselves, while external observers would notice the people onboard the ship moving slowly, ie, experiencing time at a reduced rate. Either way, the effect is that the people on board perceive the trip to be much shorter (in terms of both distance and time) than an external observer watching their ship. In principle you can get the perceived length of the trip (both distance and time) to approach but not equal zero, though in practice this would involve killing everyone on board and destroying the ship (and maybe even the galaxy).

I agree with the other commenters that the people on board will experience a consistent acceleration of 9.81 m/s² in your described scenario. It might help, conceptually, to imagine an external observer watching someone on the ship jumping up and down at this near-light speed, taking into account the severe time dilation they’d be experiencing: The difference in perception comes because, from the external observer’s point of view, the person on the ship is moving in extreme slow motion.

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