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autumn ,

Instances can defederate whenever they want, but skimming the sidebar and announcements, it’s weirder to me that lemmy.world is still federated with lemmygrad, which seems to be very similar to hexbear.

Anyone have any insight into the difference between lemmygrad and hexbear?

OurToothbrush ,

Lemmygrad is marxist leninist

Hexbear is leftist unity, larger, and more shitpostery. Also hexbear has more trans users because of even better moderation and pronoun tags being the default.

_haha_oh_wow_ ,
@_haha_oh_wow_@kbin.social avatar

I'm out of the loop: What's the deal with Hexbear?

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

They are authoritarian Russian/Chinese stans, pretending to be leftists.

OurToothbrush ,

No one stans Russia in hexbear, we literally say “the collapse of the Soviet Union was the largest humanitarian disaster of the latter half of the 20th century”

Aviandelight ,
@Aviandelight@mander.xyz avatar

I really feel like everyone is letting their emotions and ideologies run the narrative here. Lemmy.world was already defederated with Hexbear, everyone was. What they are doing is choosing to remain defederated once Hexbear federates. And that is perfectly within their rights. Until we get better moderation tools and the ability block instances at the user level I can completely understand why the admin and mods don’t want to deal with potential issues. Maybe once we all have better tools then we can try playing nice together. This is the same reasoning Beehaw took and I think it makes sense in this case as well.

birdcat ,
@birdcat@lemmy.ml avatar

Interesting that the top comment is this:

Not in favour of this. I chose Lemmy.world because I wanted an instance that would federate even with people I might disagree with. If it’s illegal and abusive, sure. But to defederate on ideological grounds? I was planning a recurring donation but this makes me consider setting up my own instance. They’re welcome to whatever discussions they want to have on their instance. As long as they respect the rules of other instances when they’re here, then everybody wins. As for their point about dismantling western propaganda - if they have documented sources then let’s have a conversation. It’s not like there isn’t western propaganda

I don’t remember which episode, but the podcast blocked and reported described exactly that that is what’s going to happen to the fediverse. Sad.

(found it. The conversation is about mastodon and starts at 43:30)

lvxferre ,
@lvxferre@lemmy.ml avatar

I disagree with lemmy.world’s decision, for three reasons:

  1. Address problems as they appear - negligence is bad, but so is jumping at the gun.
  2. Locking users out because they’re misbehaving is different than locking them out under the assumption that they’ll misbehave.
  3. Given that lemmy.world is a generic purpose instance, odds are that it would work better by letting users sort themselves out, and only intervene on problems when it is not reasonable to expect users to do so.

I also think that lemmy.world’s current size in comparison with other instances is a bit problematic. It’s great to see instances growing but it would be better if said growth was spread out.

Just my two cents, mind you. I’m from neither instance.

HonkTonkWoman ,

There’s a naked man outside a store, whippin’ his dong around & throwing poo at passersby…

Do you have to let him the store just because he hasn’t actually done any of that stuff inside yet?

Or can you preemptively decide he won’t be allowed inside?

FWIW, I agree with everything you’ve said, just looking for clarification.

moreeni ,

Visiting hexbear costs you nothing, dude. Take a look at their official statement about federation: www.hexbear.net/post/280770?scrollToComments=fals…

Please read and respect the rules of the community instance in which you are posting/commenting. Please try to keep the dirtbag lib-dunking to hexbear itself. Do not follow the Chapo Rules of Posting, instead try to engage utilizing informed rhetoric with sources to dismantle western propaganda. Posting the western atrocity propaganda and pig poop balls is hilarious but will pretty quickly get you banned and if enough of us do it defederated. Realize that you are a representative of the hexbear instance when you post on other instances.

Is this “a naked man outside a store, whippin’ his dong around & throwing poo at passersby” to you?

HonkTonkWoman ,

I read that, thanks. From my point of view, when I read the term “dirtbag lib dunking”, yes, I did equate that with poo flinging & dong whippin’.

OprahsedCreature OP ,

I think the analogy would be more accurate if he was whipping his dong out and throwing shit within his own home. And he can do what he wants there, because it’s not affecting anyone else. Sure, the people in his house can have whatever opinions they want of him, but if he’s cleaned up and dressed before he leaves his house, who cares?

kitonthenet ,

I googled this to find the drama and the first link is to their fucking cth community lol

you don't get to be edgelord shitposters and then complain when people don't let you come over to kick their sandcastles down anymore

OprahsedCreature OP ,

What’s the issue with their cth community?

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

They don’t like cops or America.

kitonthenet ,

no issues on its own but when your whole brand is edgelord shitposting, you can't be surprised when people don't want to federate

empireOfLove ,

Why though? They’ve done nothing worthy of defederation, they’re simply trying to maintain their standard of quality. And they are a HUGE INSTANCE.

Extremists are always going to get pigeonholed by the rest of the network that doesn’t want to see that shit filling up their All page and infiltrating their comments.

oatmilkmaid ,

Leave blocking communities and instances to users. If you don’t want to see “extremists” in your All page, block the community. Block the users in the comments.

Defederation should happen based on the instance community’s collective decision (no vote was done for defederation) and when an instance is actively working against the rules of a federated instance. Hexbear has not shown itself to be breaking the rules or to be planning to, and the arguments used by the world admins were all opinions and not based in reality. The admins of hexbear specifically made a post telling their users to respect federated instances rules.

Yes, the users are opinionated - but that in and of itself isn’t worth defederating with.

Mind you I’m not about to start asking to defederate from world, but I’m still kinda worried that this type of preemptive defederation is going to be the norm for world.

lemmyvore ,

Can we block instances yet?

ratroast ,

I would love to be able to block entire instances but I don’t believe that is possible yet. If it is please tell me how cause I have a bunch that would be on the chopping block!

Caligvla ,
@Caligvla@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Why would you? In fact, everyone should defederate from hexbear, they’re basically lemmygrad lite anyways.

moreeni ,

Have you even visited hexbear?

remkit ,

You want to defederate from the largest Lemmy instance, the poster child, and the mascot of Lemmy? Good luck. They are Lemmy now.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

The way .world has dominated is problematic for federation, honestly.

remkit ,

I agree, but it’s too late now. Even Sync defaults to the .world instance, and at this rate, they’ll only grow bigger.

OprahsedCreature OP ,

That seems like an argument from tradition though. Just because something has default become some way doesn’t mean it has to remain so. I think there’s bigger principles at play, censorship of minority opinions for starters.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Yeah it won’t happen on its own, there would need to be a concentrated effort to oppose .world domination at this point.

It won’t be a problem until .world starts demanding mutual defederation (i.e. instances federated with .world have to pledge to defederate from instances .world deems problematic)

OprahsedCreature OP ,

.world domination

😏

It won’t be a problem until .world starts demanding mutual defederation

To invoke the fallacy that isn’t always fallacious (slippery slope) that seems like the logical next step. If they amass too much power and are already abusing it this way, what’s to prevent them doing this next?

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

I don’t think they’ll do that until they federate with Threads 🤑

OprahsedCreature OP ,

I think the concept of a mascot or poster child for Lemmy is somewhat antithetical to the concept of federated social media. Kind of a no gods no masters situation.

remkit ,

Is it really federated social media now though? With how much .world has grown, they could disable federation and be their own walled garden.

instance active users monthly
lemmy.world 34436
lemmy.ml 6716
lemm.ee 4265

Like, they have nearly 5x more active users than .ml at this point, how ridiculous is that?

oatmilkmaid ,

I feel like it’s been so active because app developers almost all default to lemmy.world. It’s a bit concerning honestly, I wish things were a bit more spread out because everyone is at the mercy of Lemmy world and as we’ve seen several times it doesn’t look like the admins of the instance are making decisions based on community feedback.

OprahsedCreature OP ,

I mean, if I wanted a walled garden I’d just go back to Reddit. Federation is part of lemmy’s beauty, but if the imposition of a particular mindset through defederation becomes the norm, why would anyone respond with anything but defederation?

In short: why tolerate intolerance?

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

5x actually isn’t that bad!

I was worried about a 90-9-1 situation, with .world dominating 90% of the fediverse.

remkit ,

It’s actually really bad. With how big it is, it’s now the default for even new mobile applications, which means it will now only grow bigger. 5x is just the start. We are just seeing the start of the centralised decentralised Lemmyverse.

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