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What factors do you think contributed to the "Reddit Hivemind"? How do you believe it can be avoided?

I’ve been seeing more often (and others have posted the same) that some of the elements of “Reddit etiquette” seem to be taking over here. Luckily I can still find discussion comments but it seems the jokes and general “downvote because I disagree” are slowly taking over.

So the question becomes is it the size or the functionality of the site? The people or popularity? What’s your thoughts?

edit: should I change it to Lemmy-hivemind? Exhibit A: the amount of downvotes without a single explanation (guessing it’s anything to do with Reddit being talked about).

monobot ,

I see it just as extension to “cancel culture” in IRL society. Nothing complicated just same stuff pushed from media comes to the web. Much helped by algorithms that are supporting it.

It is not only reddit, whole public internet is just an echo chamber, with no critical opinion allowed.

Every topic in current society (at least Europe+North America, I don’t know what’s happening in the rest of the world) is either black or white and no in between. Very scary place we are in currently. And people put you in some category just based on one sentence, one though, one idea.

I don’t see anything special here or on reddit that is not happening in other parts of our society.

Maybe fediverse is so clean you can see it happening live, just look at any defederation request and what they think of different opinions. Different opinion is forbidden. I never thought we will ger to this point, I believed internet will give us freedom of speech and freedom to discuss. But so many topics have become dangerous.

DangedIfYouDid ,

In group/out group dynamics are fueled by insecurity and ignorance. Reddit (the internet/humanity) is full of people who are scared of being outcasts and do not know themselves well enough to be confident. Often for good reason because there are swathes of people who will punish them for not going along with the group. The punishments are almost always disproportionate to the transgression, and continually escalate as the in-group feels completely justified in their actions due to confirmation bias.

In the case of reddit’s main demographic these are young, typically nerdy men who have experienced being outcasts, and not a whole lot else - who now relish the thought of finally being part of the in-group. They will go far out of their way to prove they belong, even if it means handling themselves in a hypocritical manner and giving up their unique interests to mirror the majority of the group. Those who do not either leave, get labeled as contrarian (and summarily dismissed) or actually go fully contrarian (not like the other girls~~)

The entirety of modern social media being built around Trends™ is all you need to see how weak people’s identities really are. It’s part of why people who are authentically themselves (Trump, Walz) are viewed as strong depending on which side of the divide you fall on. People are so busy faking it to fit in (in fear of real consequences), they’ve outsourced their entire being to the trends of the group they mostly identify with.

It’s fully baked in to small town American identity, and even those who can see how absurd it is will still be forced to choose between unjustified torment, conformity, or leaving. One of those options is safe, the other two are risky or outright dangerous. All three options reinforce the belief of the in-group that their choice is the way it’s meant to be.

In short: people are really weak and we live in a culture that has preyed on this for centuries under the threat of violence.

Sam_Bass ,

Stop over-policing people. Just because you disagree with something someone says, doesnt mean you have a right or duty to shut them down

BonesOfTheMoon ,

I have a conspiracy theory take on it; I think Reddit is run by fascist admins trying to push a fascist ideology and that’s why it’s so toxic. I think techbros that run corporate social media platforms are all fash.

CanadaPlus ,

Between the Boston bomber and the APIpocalypse it seemed to me like the hive mind got a lot better, even on Reddit. You could find a lot of different perspectives, and it was rare for one that’s definitely wrong to stay on the top. Unless you just define “hive mind” as insufficiently conservative or whatever.

Tiltinyall ,

I thought they got a LOT worse after APIpocalypse. I couldn’t go anywhere on Reddit without seeing people factioned up. It was like the only approved comments were the same circlejerk as before but with the added tendency to make Reddit look good. Kind of like only saying what you heard on Reddit and nothing else. Shit got lonely quick.

CanadaPlus ,

I’ll take your word for it, lol. Lemmy’s been so good I haven’t really gone back.

intensely_human ,

Oh well thank god the wrong perspectives don’t stay at the top.

orcrist ,

We talk about it as a hive mind, but I think it is actually a problem of large numbers of users and an algorithm that needs tweaking, plus some shady mods.

You post but you’re too late, or you have a legit opinion that needs a few sub comments, but it’s too late.

Or you get trolled, you respond in a similar vein, and the mod bans you but not them, because the mod likes their opinion more. And I don’t blame mods for being soft in general, because it is a shit job. But sometimes it’s frustrating.

mindbleach ,

Or you get trolled, you respond in a similar vein, and the mod bans you but not them, because the mod likes their opinion more.

Or you added a G-rated insult after a detailed explanation of how they’re objectively wrong. Because god forbid anyone be the tiniest bit uncivil with someone going ‘oh, so you think [infuriating horseshit]?’

Remember: trolling is explicitly forbidden, but any hint of suggesting someone might be trolling is worse somehow.

Clbull ,

I have a hypothesis that all the good people with a moral compass left Reddit in disgust over the API changes, and effectively being forced into using the official Reddit app. What remains of Reddit are the sociopathic assholes.

texasspacejoey ,

all the good people with a moral compass left Reddit in disgust over the API changes

All the good posts left thats for sure. Now its just a bunch of kids asking stupid questions like “should i buy a X” or “is X worth it?”… idk maybe make a decision yourself

Fizz ,
@Fizz@lemmy.nz avatar

It was moderation and up/down votes influencing comment order.

On reddit you are punished very harshly for downvotes. Your comment gets put at the bottom, hidden and you get rate limited so you can only comment once every 10mins. Mods also nuke threads that go against their ideals and perm ban people in those threads.

Reddit culture shifted a lot during 2015 and the site mods felt they needed to control the discourse.

I don’t know how we would fix that problem but I feel like instances and a modlog goes a long way

spiderwort ,

It can’t be avoided. It’s just how most people work. The joy of belonging to the tribe and the pain of not-belonging is just too great. There are a few weirdos who can resist the urge, but they are quickly banned.

poke ,

I’ve already seen hivemind votes on some Lemmy comment threads. It’s just inevitable. Hopefully most Lemmy communities can be better about the banning thing though.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Moderation is a big part. Heavily libbed up mods such as the Lemmy.World ones are only allowing one perspective to be posted. Which is why the place is slowly turning into Reddit

This is done in three ways:

  • Restricting what content is allowed to be posted using made up metrics like MBFC or calling anything they don’t like an opinion piece.
  • Allowing users to insult those with differing opinions EG call them Russian bots or Trump supporters and only banning users when they insult those trolls back.
  • .World/WorldNews style just banning anyone who doesn’t have a Biden style Zionist worldview.

The centralization around .World is one of the biggest issues facing Lemmy right now.

eldavi , (edited )

i was wondering if i was the only one that felt this way; since i keep getting banned and named called on lemmy.world and shitjustworks every time i try to let newbie leftists posters know that lemmy.world doesn’t not represent the lemmyverse and that they’ll get a much better experience if they try almost any other instance.

kplaceholder ,
@kplaceholder@lemmy.ml avatar

You’re absolutely not the only one. My first Lemmy instance was .world, but I eventually left when I noticed that they were kinda manipulating their userbase to consent to an eventual defederation from .ml, on the grounds that it’s a “tankie” instance. The .world admins are really quick to ban any communist instance or community, and if all of them are banned, they just outright make shit up.

That was the red flag that made me jump ship, but honestly I don’t regret it at all. I didn’t truly realize the scope of .world manipulation until I started seeing Lemmy from a different instance.

spiderwort ,

99% love the hive, are irrationally attracted to it. This includes moderators.

Taalnazi ,

Yeah, good point. I think it’s best to have multiple instances with similar subs so you can always move over easily. People should also make their accounts on different instances and be a bit more active there.

geneva_convenience ,
@geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml avatar

If users were able to migrate their accounts that could help against centralization

gomp ,

What is that you care to preserve? Can’t you just register a new account and kill the old one? (genuinely curious)

geneva_convenience ,
@geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml avatar

Many users have stated they would like to keep their comment history and subscriptions. Move their account to a different instance. Having to start from scratch is a big hassle.

The fediverse concept is great but users are locked into the instance they create their accounts on. With so many instances it is better to just start somewhere and figure out what’s what later.

So far I am happy with my instance. But if I ever change my mind it would help if migration was simple.

Taalnazi ,

Great point, are the lemmy devs (idk if it works that way?) aware of this?

Coco ,

Users upvoting/downvoting leads to a hivemind, even if the moderation is not complicit (which it often is).

Tlaloc_Temporal ,
@Tlaloc_Temporal@lemmy.ca avatar

I like hiding votes until you’ve voted. Allowing users, communities, or instances to change how posts/comments are sorted might help too.

anticurrent ,

They hive mind is just as strong on lemmy as it is on Reddit. which has led me to wind-down my engagement on lemmy and will very soon drop it all together. going back to RSS I guess or might try nostr next.

Frozyre ,

It has to be down to the moderation. Admins and Moderators have to step up and stamp out what they feel is infecting the community.

Too many times I've seen in history where, if you do not have an active mod team and allow people to run the asylum, you effectively have failed that community.

sunzu2 ,

Lol... Mods enforce the hivemind.

Any critical analysis or questioning of the mods narrative leads to comment removal and bans.

averyminya ,

There’s 3 facets.

  1. Being “in” on the joke.

This is the meme comments, whether they are internet lore (a way to signify that you were there) or simply just in on the joke.

  1. Community expectations.

Some communities are made to be in on the joke. Some communities are made to be informational and analytic. Even the latter communities will eventually have some jokes that occur, which over time will create a caste of those who are “in” on the joke.

  1. Ethics and morals.

In smaller, usually hobby communities, this generally isn’t problematic. However in the wider internet, it’s not uncommon for hate to be the joke, and spreading it being “in” on the joke.

Therefore, the hivemind is not inherently bad, as it is just a nature of community expectations that are connected through shared experiences over time. But just like we’ve seen through history, this can be pretty easily manipulated and people who don’t have humanitarian beliefs in mind perpetuating that rhetoric.

In any case, to combat this, I think the community just needs to set specific expectations. GameFAQs forums would be a great example of having mostly problem-free hivemind, as video games have a specific meta-game that is developed over time and jokes from that shared experience (git gud, don’t get hit, etc). The whole point of these forums was to talk about the game, from meme (before memes) to painstaking min-maxing, and the discussions of the community would revolve around this. The rules of the forums made it pretty hard to be overtly mean or engage in discussion that wasn’t centered around the goal of the community.

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