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Is "female" offensive?

I am not a native English speaker and I have sometimes referred to people as male and female (as that is what I have been taught) but I have received some backlash in some cases, especially for the word “female”, is there some negative thought in the word which I am unaware of?

I don’t know if this is the best place to ask, if it’s not appropriate I have no problem to delete it ^^

viking ,
@viking@infosec.pub avatar

No.

BreakDecks ,

The way I explained it to a chronically single friend who used this word problematically all the time, and made him stop: Female is a word that describes gender and/or sex. My wife is female, and so is my dog. My wife is literally a woman, and my dog is literally a removed, so if I speak of my wife with the same sterile language that I speak of my dog, then my wife would easily conclude that I have no respect for her. I then asked him how the dating world was treating him, he said “bad”, and I said “of course, because you treat women like dogs”.

Never heard him say it again.

Adalast ,

This is a good way of describing it for non-US or non-native speakers. The context is important. If you are speaking in an environment where linguistic sterility or pedantic exactitude are paramount, use female because that is the correct term. Things like studies; medical, statistical, anthropological, etc. If you are in a social situation, use a non-sterile term like woman for an adult, girl for a child, or some other non-pejorative colloquial term. If “chick” or “dame” or “babe” are acceptable to the girls/women of the social circle, go wild with them, if not, don’t. This is viable advice for any pronoun or colloquial reference, no matter the gender/sex of the people around. Their emotions matter.

Also, if you are speaking with physists about physics, object pronouns become appropriate because no matter how offended people get, they have a volume and warp spacetime, so therefore they ARE objects. 🙃

jman6495 ,

Using it as an adjective in some cases is fine, never use it as a noun, unfortunately due to assholes using it that way it now has a negative conotation.

triplenadir ,
@triplenadir@lemmygrad.ml avatar

exactly this

hungryphrog ,

It really depends on the context. When used as an adjective, it’s fine. For example, the sentence “My female coworker has brown hair.” is correct. However, when it is used as a noun, it can be dehumanising. For example: “A female at my workplace has brown hair” is dehumanising. It can be used as a noun when talking about non-humans (“After mating, the female will lay her eggs.”) or in medicinal context when referring to people with uteruses.

n3m37h ,

However, when it is used as a noun, it can be dehumanising. For example: “A female at my workplace has brown hair” is dehumanising.

The fuck are you talking about?

BreakDecks ,

Using human nonspecific terminology to describe women is dehumanizing. They are women, not “females”. The only people who use “female” as a noun mean it the same way they might call a woman a “hoe”. It’s a word you use when you deliberately want to minimize the existence of another person. Literally referring to a woman like she is an object, or livestock…

n3m37h ,

Using human nonspecific terminology to describe women is dehumanizing.

What an oxymoron if I’ve ever heard one.

BreakDecks ,

Of course you think “women aren’t human” is a funny joke…

Touch grass, incel.

n3m37h ,

Ass u me much? I never said that ya Qanon crazy fuck

Sorry to tell ya I live on a farm, if anyone says that they are just projecting and should prolly go touch grass themselves

The fact y’all think calling a woman a female is dehumanizing is fucking pathetic. Go out and get a life

myfavouritename ,

I get that you’re being practical here. You’re not technically wrong, and the people who are disagreeing with you really are arguing points of nuance.

But they aren’t wrong either. That nuance matters in certain contexts.

You can pick this hill to defend. Or you can learn something that you didn’t know about the people in your online community, and probably your IRL community too.

Embrace learning something new. It will almost never be a waste of your time.

BreakDecks ,

Ah, I understand now. You think that “human nonspecific terminology” and “dehumanizing terminology” are oxymoronic. Let me help clarify this for you with a lesson in reading comprehension:

“Human nonspecific terminology” refers to terminology that isn’t used specifically to refer to humans. For example, nouns like “male”, “female”, “subject”, or “specimen” can refer to humans, but they can also apply to things like plants and animals. Casually using these terms socially is generally thought of as dehumanizing and disrespectful.

This is opposed to respectful human terminology like “man”, “woman”, “participant”, or “person” that almost exclusively refer to humans.

If a man thinks of himself as a man, but refers to women as “females”, people tend to assume he has less than an acceptable amount of respect for women, since he uses less human terminology to describe them than he would to describe himself.

n3m37h ,

This is why I preferred math over English classes.

hungryphrog ,

That you shouldn’t call a human woman “a female”?

Railcar8095 ,

Not English native here, please don’t be too harsh for asking this.

I’ve heard male very often as noun, and doesn’t seem to have a negative reaction. Is one “generally” considered worse to use than the other?

DerisionConsulting ,

A lot of the reason why “Female” has a bit of a negative slant, is because of the kinds of people/communities that overused the word.

Those groups used female as a way to say that women are only useful as somewhere to put your dick. There didn’t really seem to be a group using male in a dehumanizing way, so it doesn’t really have the same negative feeling.

Kinda like how if someone just comments “Jew” on a post it can feel negative, but if they say “Canadian” or “Bulgarian” it feels neutral.

thatsTheCatch ,

Yeah it’s tricky. Using “female” as a noun in a non-biological context is often used by incels and misogynists in order to dehumanise women. Whereas there isn’t the same trend of certain groups using “male” to dehumanise men, or at least I’ve never heard of it happening in real life.

In a vacuum, both would be the same, but because there is a much larger trend of using “female” to dehumanise women than using “male” to dehumanise men, it’s not a true double-standard.

And as long as you’re not being a dick, especially if English isn’t your native language, then people will know what you mean. But if you are consciously trying to make an effort, then don’t use “female” and “male” as nouns to refer to someone’s gender.

hungryphrog ,

Can you give some examples?

Wahots ,
@Wahots@pawb.social avatar

It sounds fairly scientific in a crunchy or incel way. As others have highlighted here, there are times it can be used, but generally, I’d stick to “women” or “ladies” for most situations. It flows better and avoids potentially negative connotations. That said, if english isn’t your native language, I’d expect native speakers to cut you some slack; english can be a difficult language to learn, and the language is always evolving, particularly around gendered language right now. Sounds like you are putting the effort into learning it, though :)

TotallyHuman ,

Typically it does flow better, but I have a little mental stumble every time someone uses “woman” or “women” as an adjective. I know why they’re doing it and I can’t really fault them, it just… feels off.

jsomae , (edited )

Others in this thread will tell you it’s only acceptable as an adjective or for animals. That’s not true. Here are some non-adjective uses that most people wouldn’t consider misogynistic on the surface:

  • A female changing room (noun adjunct)
  • Female-only spaces. (noun)
  • Sorry, this shelter is only for females. (noun)
  • This procedure is not recommended for females. (noun)
  • Only females are eligible for this award. (noun)
  • “Is the person you’re going out with tonight a male or a female?” (noun, my mom said this)
  • “A male character has no stats difference compared to a female.” (Probably an adjective but arguably not)

That said, “I am a single man looking for a female” is pretty gross usage. Also, please note that some of these examples may be transphobic in nature.

weew ,

I just went to a Women’s Day film festival where females were talking about females while using the word “female” all day.

I’m pretty sure people are way overreacting to it. In the end it’s just context and tone. “Women” can be just as derogatory depending on how you say it.

triplenadir ,
@triplenadir@lemmygrad.ml avatar

the only examples here which don’t sound completely gross are the ones where you misunderstood the part of speech…

jsomae ,

which ones did I misunderstand the part of speech?

“female-only” is an adjective phrase where “female” is a noun. Compare “lion-only zoo.” Adjectives don’t work here (× big-only zoo)

triplenadir ,
@triplenadir@lemmygrad.ml avatar

A female changing room (noun adjunct)

Noun adjunct is a noun functioning as an adjective.

“A male character has no stats difference compared to a female.” (Probably an adjective but arguably not)

“female [character]” definitely an adjective

“female-only” is an adjective phrase where “female” is a noun. Compare “lion-only zoo.” Adjectives don’t work here (× big-only zoo)

Yes “female-only” sounds gross.

jsomae ,

A noun adjunct is a noun functioning as an adjective. By contrast, in “a female scientist,” female is an adjective and not a noun adjunct.

To me, “female-only spaces” sounds like conventional English and I much prefer it to “woman-only” which sounds gross to me. Google NGrams agrees.

I agree with you regarding the character example.

captainlezbian ,

It’s an adjective not a noun when talking about people. The sort of people who use it as a noun tend to be misogynists and so when people do it they’re often unknowingly writing with a misogynist accent if that makes sense.

ComradeR ,

“I have a female friend.” (As in “I have a friend that’s a woman.”) “I’ve talked with a female today.” (As in “I’ve talked with a woman today.”)

The first one is fine, because isn’t using the word as an adjective. The second one is derogatory, because it is being used as a substantive.

n3m37h ,

So stating a fact is derogatory?

Where the fuck do y’all get your information?

h3mlocke ,

Lmao this incel can’t stop commenting in here 😂

Holyginz ,

Found the incel lol

n3m37h ,

Considering I read the initial statement to my mom (60) and she said wtf?

Y’all just assume. Hope ya don’t go through life with that kind of outlook you will never make friends

IzzyScissor ,

“My mom said it’s OK” is just telling on yourself, my dude.

n3m37h ,

You’re great at twisting words to suit your narrative.

Literally said what the fuck is wrong with these people. And I concur.

Went into this knowing exactly what I would be dealing with, a bunch of idiots who have never been told to shut the fuck up.

dillydogg ,

What do you mean by facts? How is female defined by you? Because I doubt you genetically test for XX chromosomes before you say female, right?

I think there are plenty of words that can be factual, but also unkind. And that is all that this is about. I would at the very least find it odd if someone used “human specimen” instead of calling me a man, though it is factual. I think trying to use the words that describe people the way they see themselves instead of hanging onto some logical ideal is a normal transition languages make over time and is a kinder way to be.

theywilleatthestars ,

When used as a noun they’re how you refer to non-human animals so when you use them for people it sounds that you don’t think men/women are human

notexecutive ,

If you say “This female” vs. “This woman”, it could be considered very rude. English is very context dependent.

gramie ,

One place where it makes sense to use the word female as a noun is when an individual word like “woman” doesn’t work. For instance, if there are girls and women together, neither “women” nor “girls” is appropriate. In that case, I think “female” is the only option. I’d be happy to hear if anyone has an alternative.

CiderApplenTea ,

In that case I still try to avoid “females”, instead I prefer using “ladies” or just “women”, even if there are girls present.

arin ,

Even if the girls are toddlers?

Zahille7 ,

Just say “ladies” at that point.

It’s not like it’s hard to do.

lolcatnip ,

Ok but what if they don’t hold any land or titles?

TheAnonymouseJoker ,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

“Female” is as offensive as “male” is. I see “male” being used all the time, so I will not refrain from using “female”.

pelletbucket ,

it’s supposed to be an adjective (female dog, female human, etc.) but people who want to reduce people to nothing but their sex will use it as a noun.

pixeltree ,
@pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

It’s super context dependent. Asking “How do I ask a woman out?” Vs “How do I ask a female out?” say very different things about you.

teawrecks ,

I’d say it’s off-putting for the same reason that using technically accurate biological terminology in place of sexy-talk can be off-putting. It could come off as impersonal or alien at best, and objectifying at worst.

Think of an alien in disguise saying “hello fellow humans”. Technically, it’s not wrong, it’s just weird.

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