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Trincapinones ,

Could anyone tell me why the fuck this isn’t a war crime?

Steve ,

Thats the fun part, it is.

jetliswar ,

No it isnt. Incendiary weapons are legal if not used on civilians and couple of other rules.

TheTechnician27 ,
@TheTechnician27@lemmy.world avatar

Correct.

themoken ,

Whew, for a second there I thought someone was burning people alive in an illegal fashion.

LesserAbe ,

This is gruesome for sure. That said, most ways of killing people in war aren’t good ways to go. Killing is going to cause suffering.

Ideally we wouldn’t kill. And then if we do it hopefully it’s quick and doesn’t prolong suffering. And then if we’re pushed to the point that it’s us or them hopefully it’s them.

Krauerking ,

People that are trying to murder and kidnap civilians from another country? Why do you like abusers so much? Want to be like one some day?

Trincapinones ,

Soldiers are just people forced into this shit, the people that could deserve this are the higher ranks, but they are too busy being safe and cozy

TheTechnician27 ,
@TheTechnician27@lemmy.world avatar

The Russians presently in Ukraine are contract soldiers that voluntarily enlisted for the invasion.

rbesfe ,

Soldiers can drop their weapons or frag their officers at any timd

Krauerking ,

Yeah that’s also easier said than done. Try saying you think that you don’t like pizza very much at a Mets game and people will want to attack you.

You will get shot for dissenting, even just suggesting it. They want like minded.

I agree that they can make a choice but it’s also not easy to go against the general movement of a group. Or else we in the west would have changed more as well.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Heck yeah chemical warfare. When is Agent Orange making a comeback

mEEGal ,

no need, there’s not enough foliage in Ukranian forests. plus winter is coming, so…

now let’s talk about nerve gas

Bernie_Sandals ,
@Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world avatar

This is not chemical warfare…

The only one committing chemical warfare in Ukraine right now is Russia. You probably wouldn’t know about that though.

ExtremeDullard ,
@ExtremeDullard@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

I hate Putin and any Russian war sympathizer as much as the next guy, but…

My grandfather got a white phosphorus burn during WW2. He told me it was the most terrible pain he ever felt in his entire life, you can’t extinguish it, and he wouldn’t wish it on his worst enemy. I heard the same kind of stories from people who got napalm burns in Vietnam.

I’m pretty sure thermite munitions are in the same category of basically inhumane weapons regardless of the circumstances, right up there with NBCs, mines, napalm and white phosphorus, and I can’t say I fully side with the Ukrainians on this one. I mean I understand why they do it, but I also remember my grandfather’s leg and the horror of what he told me.

TheTechnician27 ,
@TheTechnician27@lemmy.world avatar

Russia is welcome to withdraw from its genocidal, imperialist, unilateral invasion at any time.

metaStatic ,

"it's not a war crime if we're defending ourselves"

TheTechnician27 , (edited )
@TheTechnician27@lemmy.world avatar

Do you put “sitting in the comfort of the first world trying to be the moral arbiter of a people desperately defending themselves from a fascist war of extermination” as one of your hobbies on your dating profile?

Edit: This reply was so ridiculous that I actually completely forgot to mention that this isn’t a war crime under international law.

AsherahTheEnd ,

Do you put “I support war crimes against humans if their government is bad” on your dating profile? You make yourself out to be a barbaric monster.

TheTechnician27 ,
@TheTechnician27@lemmy.world avatar

“if their government is bad”

Russia has long since moved to sending contract soldiers into Ukraine. They either support Putin’s war on principle or because of greed from Russia’s ballooning sign-up bonuses. I don’t honestly care what happens to people who voluntarily signed up to commit a genocide when it’s them or the innocent people protecting themselves and everything they love from being genocided.

AsherahTheEnd ,

Whatever you say, bloodthirsty monster. Keep cheering about the killing of poor people, I guess.

metaStatic ,

if there is ever an exception there is always an exception

AsherahTheEnd ,

In response to your edit… Do you truly consider the use of thermite as a weapon valid and okay? Like, literally melting people to death? You think that just because it isn’t technically a war crime that it’s a-okay to fucking BURN PEOPLE ALIVE? Despicable. Absolutely despicable. Your morals make me sick.

TheTechnician27 ,
@TheTechnician27@lemmy.world avatar

isn’t technically a war crime

You’re acting like this is some sort of situation that brushes up against being a war crime but falls just short because of some small, pedantic technicality, but no. As you can plainly read, this isn’t even close to a war crime under international law, which is the entire way a war crime is defined, because it’s, you know, a crime. You can’t just hallucinate up international conventions on war and then act all offended when someone points out they don’t exist.

This isn’t just “not technically a war crime”; this is unambiguously not a war crime and was never in any danger of even approximating one.

FlashMobOfOne ,
@FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

I mean, our money is funding this war instead of our own health care, so yeah, I think our people have every right to criticize if they want to.

And besides, it wasn’t that long ago that people were saying these same things about Iraq and Afghanistan, and we later learned our money was grossly misused and corruption rampant.

Stories have already circulated about corruption in the Zelensky government.

LesserAbe ,

Wow, stories have circulated you say? /s

Unlike Iraq and Afghanistan, which were immoral American misadventures, this is a Russian misadventure, and supporting the Ukrainians is pushing back against aggression.

bradorsomething ,

Honestly the Ukrainian brutality has been pretty constrained over time compared to the civil war. Russia started full 1865.

RizzRustbolt ,

“They started it!” is not a valid reason to commit a war crime.

TheTechnician27 ,
@TheTechnician27@lemmy.world avatar
magnetosphere ,
@magnetosphere@fedia.io avatar

Not alone, it isn’t, but there’s much more to take into account. Russia’s invasion was illegal to begin with, and they have committed numerous war crimes along the way. Most importantly (to me), Ukraine isn’t using this to attack, but as defense on their own soil.

These factors, along with others, make it a morally complex issue. Honestly, I don’t know where I stand.

FlashMobOfOne ,
@FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

As an American, I gotta say, this is probably a sentiment we ourselves shouldn’t be getting behind. War crimes are committed in our name with our weapons every single day.

TheTechnician27 ,
@TheTechnician27@lemmy.world avatar

No, I definitely think we should be getting behind this sentiment. The US’ invasion of Vietnam was the same brand of bullshit that Russia is doing to Ukraine, and the Vietnamese had every right to do what it took to US troops to defend their homeland. The illegal invasion of Iraq caused the needless deaths of hundreds of thousands and was perpetrated knowing that its premise was objectively false. The US right now is militarily supporting genocide in Gaza.

FlashMobOfOne ,
@FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

What’s your thought process going to be when the war comes to the US?

TheTechnician27 ,
@TheTechnician27@lemmy.world avatar

I haven’t been able to get my hands on a copy of your fever dream geopolitical fanfiction to understand how the war comes to the US, so I don’t feel comfortable answering yet.

FlashMobOfOne ,
@FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

History is littered with fallen empires.

Assume Russia, China, and others decide to make war on the US and attack our country directly.

What is your thought process going to be on war crimes and chemical weapons?

TheTechnician27 ,
@TheTechnician27@lemmy.world avatar

Did a writer’s position come open at Bethesda and you’re canvassing people for material to use in the interview?

Randomgal ,

That’s what Putin said about Ukraine.

TheTechnician27 ,
@TheTechnician27@lemmy.world avatar

Breaking news: fascist oligarch produces paper-thin lies to justify a war of aggression. Local Lemmy user learns what a firehose of falsehoods is. This and more news coming up at 11.

hoch ,

After seeing countless attacks on Ukrainian civilians, I really don’t care what happens to the invading forces anymore. Remove them from Ukrainian territory however you want, I really don’t care.

nandeEbisu ,

It does sound borderline war crime, but then again the US buried thousands of Iraqi soldiers alive in the first gulf war, but our lawyers also did the mental gymnastics to justify it not being one beforehand so presumably they have some justification so its just barely legal. latimes.com/…/la-xpm-1991-09-12-mn-2959-story.htm…

That being said, its not like Russia is being super careful about its rules of engagement.

DragonTypeWyvern ,

Don’t want to get war crimed, don’t do war crimes first.

Randomgal ,

I’m glad fire is easy to control and produces no byproducts that accelerate the climate apocalypse.

TheTechnician27 ,
@TheTechnician27@lemmy.world avatar

“Can you be a bit more environmentally conscious while you fend off the extermination of your culture, country, family, friends, and people? Thaaaaanks.”

papertowels ,

Are you really giving them crap for not thinking of mother nature as they defend their homes from invaders?

nkat2112 ,
@nkat2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

What if the Russians didn’t start a war?

AsherahTheEnd ,

So the people who didn’t “start the war” are welcome to utilize war crimes against their aggressors? Even if these soldiers are forced to be the aggressors due to their government? It’s almost like we take out our anger on the little people who are the tools instead of the government sending them. Maybe we should consider not embracing war crimes?

TheTechnician27 ,
@TheTechnician27@lemmy.world avatar

These aren’t war crimes under international law. But I guess that small little fact doesn’t really fit with your bad-faith argument.

ramenshaman ,

What if Ukraine didn’t start the fire?

TheTechnician27 ,
@TheTechnician27@lemmy.world avatar

Impossible. Are you meaning to suggest that it was always burning since the world’s been turning?

ramenshaman ,

Perhaps. Some would say they didn’t light it, but they tried to fight it.

(Thank you for getting the reference instead of just downvoting)

Krauerking ,

The self fellatiating “superior” pacifists in here bragging that they would never think of doing something so horrible as to defend themselves violently from a group actively trying to murder you or your fellow citizens and kidnap your children are a special sort of disconnexted from reality.

Abusers will continue to push what they can get away with and you are the types that would tell women to stay with their husbands that beat them and children to accept being raped because to fight back might make a mess of your peaceful idea of reality.

Also this isn’t boring you nonce.

magnetosphere ,
@magnetosphere@fedia.io avatar

The sad thing is that Putin doesn’t care about war crimes. He will sacrifice as many soldiers or civilians as necessary to get his way.

FlashMobOfOne ,
@FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

The sad thing is that, years after this war is over, we’ll probably learn our money and weapons were misused, just as we did with Iraq and Afghanistan.

People will remind you of that, and it won’t matter. You’ll still support whatever war we’re involved in, and all because the news network you watch insists that you should.

magnetosphere ,
@magnetosphere@fedia.io avatar

Unfortunately, that’s true of virtually everyone throughout the world. We’re all immersed in propaganda of one kind or another.

FlashMobOfOne ,
@FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

That’s true, but this same process has repeated itself often enough over the last 40 years that we can point to a few consistent historical patterns, I think.

magnetosphere ,
@magnetosphere@fedia.io avatar

The last few decades are the most memorable (and frustrating, since I think we really should know better by now), but I think one could argue that we’ve had pretty much the same attitude towards war throughout recorded history.

AsherahTheEnd ,

This is disgusting. Russia is the aggressor and Ukraine has every right to defend itself and fight back against Russia, but could we maybe remember the soldiers are still living, breathing, feeling humans with lives as complex and deep as our own? Maybe try not using horrible weapons like this against one another? I understand Russia has committed countless atrocities in Ukraine but this is absolutely evil. War is well and truly hell.

TheTechnician27 ,
@TheTechnician27@lemmy.world avatar

War is well and truly hell

For Ukraine? Yes. For Russia? They can leave literally whenever they want, and the Russians in Ukraine right now signed up to be there. The nanosecond the last Russian soldier leaves Ukraine and stops firing into their soil, this war is over. I don’t remember the bylaw for Hell where I can just walk out whenever the hellfire becomes too hot.

AsherahTheEnd ,

Whatever you say, bloodthirsty monster.

Zannsolo ,

Ehh, fuck’em. they can leave,surrender, or die but I have zero qualms with Ukraine defending their country.

Earthprototype ,

That’s awful! Please keep doing that.

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