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rambling_lunatic ,

Mutual aid but worse

grrgyle ,

Like you do it for mutu bux that can be redeemed in the local swag shop for things like seeds (good for 1 growing season) and good-feels (license to make a pop-up community garden in the square (garden for display purposes only))

TheFriar ,

Community land trusts seem like a creative solution at the moment. We definitely don’t need a fucking tech company with their hands in the mix though.

yewtu.be/watch?v=h46WVCr4zk0

Gork ,

It’s the Libertarian® Paradise™

TexasDrunk ,

There was a commenter the other day (I wish I could remember who) that said something along the lines of libertarians regularly reinvent things we already have.

petrol_sniff_king ,

youtu.be/fibDNwF8bjs

Doesn’t call out libertarians specifically, but it’s appropriate. :p

Also, hello Piped bot.

stringere ,

Also, hello Piped bot.

Yo

petrol_sniff_king ,

I’m surprised I haven’t seen it yet.

aidan ,

The difference is generally they make it voluntary

Phil_in_here ,

What if we privatize government?

JoYo ,
@JoYo@lemmy.ml avatar

this is how to fight gentrification but sure white girl call it taxes.

grrgyle ,

I’m curious what you mean. I’ll admit that I wrote it off as plain platform capitalism, just from the headline. But sometimes people come up with these things with good intentions

JoYo ,
@JoYo@lemmy.ml avatar

lemmy.ml/comment/10373382

grrgyle ,

Hmm interesting. Sounds a little bit like a woke HOA, but maybe that isn’t awful

Link for the lazy: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_land_trust

JoYo ,
@JoYo@lemmy.ml avatar

Yah I’ve asked a few real estate agents and lawyers the difference and I still can’t reconcile them.

I’m look at establishing one in Anacostia to build the area up without pushing out the wonderful public services here.

Omgpwnies ,

This doesn’t fight gentrification, it is gentrification. The people who would be able to pay into this scheme aren’t the types who need to worry about their neighbourhood becoming so ‘improved’ that they can’t afford to live there anymore.

captainlezbian ,

Exactly. I live in an area being gentrified. I hate that anything nice means I won’t be able to keep living here but I can’t afford to live somewhere with nice things

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I used to live in a part of L.A. that’s been gentrified. Rent is literally double what we were paying.

captainlezbian ,

Everywhere I move in Ohio winds up gentrified if it isn’t bumfuck nowhere. Like fuckin hell there’s not even bus service out this far and the landlord is trying to gentrify. I used to live in a place with street dealers, apartment fires, and pest infestations and now that neighborhood has luxury housing. This wasn’t long ago, they were building it when I moved out mid pandemic

JoYo , (edited )
@JoYo@lemmy.ml avatar

The only way that neighborhoods can protect themselves from gentrification is through community land trusts. These are horribly complex to setup and require the purchase of property which is very time consuming. The communities that need CLTs the most are the least likely to have the resources to form one.

randon31415 ,

Every politcian: So how do we funnel this money to kill foreigners while profiting by taking kickbacks from weapon manufacturers?

ripcord ,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

Pretty sure it’s only the last part that matters.

Killing the foreigners is usually way secondary.

IsThisAnAI ,

Choosing to pool resources for specific needs is a pretty long shot from a huge generalized fund that you must pay into. But yeah, sick burn.

Signtist ,

Except when you get more and more people in the group, the wants of any given individual get outweighed for larger, more generalized expenses. This is literally the same concept as taxes, just applied to a small enough group that an individual gets a real say in how the money is spent.

But if it works well it’ll inevitably get popular, attract more users, and the voice of the many will drown out the voice of the few, with out-of-touch treasurers spending the money unwisely, becoming exactly the same in every way as taxes.

snooggums ,
@snooggums@midwest.social avatar

We regularly have votes on taxes for specific things, like a half percent sales tax for a major project that will be collected for a few years in a limited area on top of the regular sales tax.

KevonLooney ,

Rest assured, this person has never voted in a local election. If they vote at all, it’s President or Governor only. Maybe a Senator.

If they ever even flipped their ballot over they would see all the local government tax or regulation questions. Your example is very good. There’s usually some bond or tiny tax for a particular issue (schools, libraries, parks, etc.).

ripcord ,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

You’re probably right. And I think their point sucks anyway. But the vast majority of taxes DO go to things that people have no direct say on, and I get why that is frustrating (and why trying to let everyone dictate exactly how their taxes are spent would be impractical)

ThePyroPython ,

No, tech bros discover co-operative banking.

oo1 ,

yeah came here to say it seems more like bank or building societies.

InfiniteStruggle ,

Sure, but this time they can be sure their money goes to themselves instead of those pesky vulnerable sections of society.

ScruffyDucky ,

Or bank bailouts

jkrtn ,

This is the correct answer. I’m sure Repubs are somewhat willing to contribute to improving a group as long as they personally benefit from every contribution.

force ,

I’m not so sure considering the bizarre reality that many people on welfare also think people who take government aid are lazy and we should abolish welfare

Promethiel ,
@Promethiel@lemmy.world avatar

Those folks live amongst the rest of the poor undesirables silly. They don’t live in the privileged communities that would turn on them as the next ‘Them’.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

That’s the whole idea behind “philanthropic foundations.” Rich people benefit from “charity” by getting huge tax write-offs.

And then the government decides that society can depend on those charities rather than any sort of social safety net.

oce ,
@oce@jlai.lu avatar

They get a huge tax write-off but they are still giving up at least the same money aren’t they? The issue is rather that these foundations may benefit them in another way, for example by providing a salary to their family and friends, if I understand that correctly.

InfiniteStruggle ,

Exactly. A portion of the money is funnelled back to them. Social events for networking become tax write offs when they add a “Help the kids” box out front.

UpperBroccoli ,

Not necessarily. There are a lot of scams involving charity. Here’s a small, ad-hoc made-up example to illustrate:

  • Buy cheap artwork from obscure artist for $500
  • Wait a while
  • Buy an expert expertise that says your art is super revolutionary and worth $5.000.000
  • Donate that super important piece of art to some charity or museum or whatever
  • Write off $5.000.000 in taxes
oce ,
@oce@jlai.lu avatar

Is it really possible to write off based on estimated art value rather than initial price?

JareeZy ,

That is the unironic basis of my “enlightened centrists” friends beliefs. He doesn’t want the poor people he sees on TV and at the bus stop to benefit from his money. Nevermind that he received a free education and has all the benefits of living in a first world country. Only if he himselfs would benefit from a measure (e.g. fixing the streets in front of his house) would he be in favour of spending tax money.

EdibleFriend ,
@EdibleFriend@lemmy.world avatar

Yes we’ve had taxes but what about second taxes

iAvicenna ,
@iAvicenna@lemmy.world avatar

but this is voluntary! said the rich guy while frantically masturbating

Zachariah ,
@Zachariah@lemmy.world avatar

But this way third parties can get their cut.

andrew ,
@andrew@lemmy.stuart.fun avatar

Taxes have that feature too, sadly. No system is perfect.

bitfucker ,

Well, I guess it is fair for someone that manages those resources full time to get their payment for their management labour from those pool of resources no? The implementation is what must be very strictly looked out for and be as transparent as possible. It is why we have created a country along with its governmental system. Now, whether ANY currently implemented system is perfect or not is another debate.

Dampframme ,

But there’s also stuff like cum ex where the tax system gets exploited

HubertManne ,

yes but what about second third party pip?

Socsa ,

pip install local_park

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

at least we are somewhat choosing those

Aux ,

You don’t choose taxes, they are enforced.

lost_faith ,

You don’t choose to have roads, schools, water, etc… they are enforced

aidan ,

We individually aren’t, in theory the majority on any issue is.

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

which is better than just some trust fund kid heir

aidan ,

I’d prefer people making decisions for themselves as much as possible.

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

agreed. rich heir assholes shouldnt make decisions pertaining to our work and future, we should.

aidan ,

Agreed, but there is no we. You shouldn’t make decisions for me either.

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

there is a “we” whether you or me like it or not.

aidan ,

What is the we?

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

it depends on the issue at hand. if we are talking about climate change, its everyone.

decaying infrastructure on a given country? its inhabitants.

aidan ,

Well it’s not everyone, both those things effect people differently. Even if I live in a country with decaying infrastructure- if I barely go outside it doesn’t effect me that much. Or, I may value infrastructure or the climate differently than you.

umbrella , (edited )
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

it does. if you barely get out of the house you still need that infrastructure to get food, energy and sewer service delivered to you, regardless of how important you judge it to be. society is a big web of interconnected people and services.

aidan ,

There are plenty of people who homestead. Are they at least out of the we? And I never disagreed that most people rely on each other. Instead I disagree that that mutual reliance makes a collective of people with the same desires, interests, and goals.

umbrella , (edited )
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

im not really saying they have all common interests, but that they overlap.

someone who is completely off the grid will also get affected by the rest of the world’s industrial and energy policy due to climate change and polution too.

aidan ,

Being effected doesn’t mean there is a “we” that is justified in making decisions for others

umbrella , (edited )
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

no one person is single handedly making decisions for everyone else on a given subject. not on a system closer to the ideal.

on our current system, yes, a few rich people are deciding most stuff for everyone else.

aidan ,

no one person is single handedly making decisions for everyone else on a given subject.

No, as I said, the best you can get when you have a unrestricted democratic government is the majority making decisions for the minority. That’s still not good.

affiliate ,

they finally found a way to add a built in service fee to taxes. i just hope this new model is compatible with turbo tax premium

sudo42 ,

Every new business model now is just insinuating themselves into an existing structure so they can grift/leech money out for themselves. They call it “innovation “.

NeptuneOrbit ,

*HOAs which reinvented taxes

TropicalDingdong ,

So its taxes all the way down…

lawrence ,

previsible meme

ech ,

And death.

WarmSoda ,

Yay!

HobbitFoot ,

HOA’s reinvented municipal government in a way that let them be racist again.

Omgpwnies ,

and keep the taxes too

Socsa ,

That’s the hilarious part, they still pay all the same taxes. HOAs are both toxic and stupid.

TWeaK ,

Nah they do have some valid purpose, eg communal roads and facilities - at least in a country where the state refuses to adopt basic infrustructure for new housing developments.

HobbitFoot ,

Of the state refuses to adopt basic infrastructure. If the state did, then they would have to make it open to everyone.

TWeaK ,

Sure, but what’s wrong with that? I mean, roads are already open to everyone - your mailman can access them, visitors can access them, etc. If you extend it to ponds and parks and stuff, it wouldn’t be the end of the world for those to be public, either.

Maybe with pools and such it’s a different story, but there are ways of managing those without setting up a mini government rife for abuse.

HobbitFoot ,

I mean, roads are already open to everyone - your mailman can access them, visitors can access them, etc.

That is not the case for all HOA’s. For some, they have gated communities. For others, they are more than willing to enforce private property rights on people who don’t meet the “character” of the community.

If you extend it to ponds and parks and stuff, it wouldn’t be the end of the world for those to be public, either.

Sure it would. The wrong people might use it. After all, they aren’t building these amenities for everyone to use, just residents who either own property or are leasing property in a way that is approved by the HOA.

TWeaK ,

That is not the case for all HOA’s. For some, they have gated communities.

Yes, but they still allow mail deliveries and visitors in some form or another.

After all, they aren’t building these amenities for everyone to use, just residents who either own property or are leasing property in a way that is approved by the HOA.

Yes, but there are other ways to manage that then setting up an HOA which can be expanded well beyond the management of that communal property.

You only have to look and see how other countries do it to see that HOA’s are uniquely an American problem, one that has no justification in being as bad as it is.

hemko ,

At least there’s hope the money is not used to bomb schools in middle east

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

There are a lot of Israeli companies operating in America…

hemko ,

Okay fair. There’s a non-zero chance the money won’t be used to bomb schools in middle east

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