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drmoose , to technology in Reddit blocking all major search engines, except Google

Reddit responded: “Only google pays us”. The content is not yours. You built this of naive user base that just wanted to share now these fuckers are taking it as their entitlement. As early an reddit user - fuck that place, I’m still angry.

Tja ,

Legally speaking, the content is theirs.

drmoose ,

No, I don’t think so. Just because you put a clause in ToS doesn’t make it legally binding and most precedent is in favor of the original copyright owner.

Tja ,

I’d love to see the precedent, if you don’t mind.

KingOfTheCouch , to technology in Reddit blocking all major search engines, except Google

IMO, another good reason to not use Google!

kaotic , to technology in Reddit blocking all major search engines, except Google

addons.mozilla.org/en-US/…/g-search-filter/

Install this and exclude it from all search results.

dan ,
@dan@upvote.au avatar
kaotic ,

Thanks! Will give it a try.

tomsh ,
@tomsh@lemmy.world avatar

Why not change your search engine and set up a SearX instance? You can find all instances here: searx.space. For example, I have set it up like this: https://search.inetol.net/search?q=%s&category_general=1&language=en&time_range=&safesearch=0&theme=simple, and it works wonders. Results are still mostly from Google, or you can configure it to be whatever you want.

Mwa ,
@Mwa@thelemmy.club avatar

am gonna exclude reddit

Burn_The_Right , to technology in Reddit blocking all major search engines, except Google

Google just enshittifying even harder. Reddit results in Google searches are often old and anemic these days.

I used to want Reddit threads to show up in search results. Now I avoid them because they are so often a waste of time. More reason to use Duck Duck Go.

x00z , to technology in Reddit blocking all major search engines, except Google

Hi, I’m new here. Because of the bullshit with Reddit. Greetings fellow Lemmy people.

SuperCub ,

Welcome aboard. It’s not much, but she’s got it where it counts.

CreativeShotgun ,

In the wubba-wubba

Excrubulent ,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

Welcome! Genuine advice for a newcomer: look around, figure out what instances you like, and shift away from lemmy.world to an instance that requires a sign-up request and which comports with your values. There is an account migration feature to make this as easy as possible.

It’s different to what people are used to, but in my experience a huge number of the worst people migrating from reddit went straight to one of the open instances. A lot of them were banned over there for quite legitimate reasons.

They know that they can’t operate their own asshole instances for long because they’ll get defederated, and they don’t want to deal with being known to an admin who has actual principles, so open sign up is their thing, and those instances are filling up with them.

Honestly I would like to see a feature that flags if a user’s instance has open sign up.

It’s getting to the point that if someone is still on an open instance, they’re a little sus to me. It’s easier to trust people who come from instances whose policies I agree with.

WarlordSdocy ,

I mean I joined lemmy.world in the migration from Reddit and haven’t really seen any problems with being here. I tried joining one of the ones that needed a sign up request when I first switched to Lemmy but I didn’t want to have to deal with waiting to use Lemmy. I haven’t really noticed any problems being on lemmy.world and personally I don’t even look at what instances people are from. I just treat it like reddit, we’re all using Lemmy at the end of the day.

Excrubulent ,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

Well, maybe you don’t get into the kinds of discussions I do, or our values are different. It seems like particularly when I say anything advocating for minorities it attracts a slew of reactionaries who are persistent and impossible to reason with, and two of the places I’ve noticed they tend to come from are lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works, both largeish instances with open sign up. I haven’t noticed any particularly reactionary instances apart from the tankie ones.

This is probably the reason a number of instances have defedded from .world, so you are probably getting more of those kinds of people, and less of the people who would object to that kind of hatred, whether you’ve noticed it or not.

And I’ve noticed this problem seems worse here than it was on reddit, but I’ve realised it makes sense because the more vocal people are the ones more likely to leave or get booted from reddit, so of course we get them here, and of course the ones who have covert ideologies tend to go for open sign up.

Personally I prefer to be on an instance that I know is roughly aligned with my values so I know I won’t have to make the case to my admins that hate is bad and should be moderated out.

Maybe what I said should’ve been more neutrally stated, but it is just my opinion.

WarlordSdocy ,

I mean I notice people like that but I never really pay attention to what instance they’re from. They’re usually a minority in any post I see anyways though and are being downvoted a bunch. Most of the time I see lots of fairly progressive people or at worst people who were supporting Biden unconditionally and trying to call anyone who pointed out any problems with him bots. Maybe it’s cause I’m still using Lemmy mostly like I used reddit and treating it as one unified platform instead of a bunch of smaller connected ones. But personally I’d prefer being on an instance that allows me to connect to as many other instances as possible cause personally I don’t want some admin team telling me who I can and can’t interact with, I’d much rather just pick communities I like no matter what instance they’re on that I like and trust the communities more with the moderation. I’d rather handle blocking instances and communities myself rather then leaving it in the hands of admins that could power trip. Again maybe that’s just my mindset from Reddit, personally I’ve enjoyed Lemmy so far and haven’t really noticed any problems on world.

P00ptart ,

Bro… What?!? I’ve only been here a day and I have no clue what any of that means lol

kautau ,

Lemmy isn’t one service like Reddit. It’s a piece of software where anybody can run their own lemmy instance. Lemmy.world is the most popular, but there are many others. And those choosing to run an instance can “federate” with other instances, which means as a user you can see posts and comments from the other instance even though you are logged into the one you have an account on.

So the commenter is recommending you look at posts or comments from users on other instances that have more stringent sign up policies, and migrate your account there. Since your account is new, you likely don’t need to spend the effort on migrating your account and instead can just set up an account on another instance/server.

But it’s also fine to stay on lemmy.world. Just be respectful, voice your opinions like you would in person with other humans, and you’ll be fine. And if you’re just here for the memes, that’s ok too! Enjoy them! And welcome to lemmy.

P00ptart ,

Hey, thanks for the detailed explanation! That certainly helps, but it’ll probably take me a while to fully get it. I signed up using voyager and it didn’t tell me anything like that. I’m sure it’ll make more sense as I get used to it. So can I not see all posts from other instances?

kautau , (edited )

Yeah, there are many instances, and many that have purposefully been defederated by lemmy.world. Often for good reason (CSAM, an abundance of spam accounts, violent or hateful rhetoric, etc). But generally lemmy.world and its federated instances are pretty great.

P00ptart ,

Ok, sounds like I’ll just stick with .world for a while until I get my “sea legs”

roguetrick ,

I think this this guy is going to end up on dbzer0 once he gets his sea legs. Of note the piracy communities over there will be some of the few things you can’t access from .world.

Allero ,

As an option, I’d recommend lemmy.today

It’s an instance that stays away from all the drama and just federates with everyone unless this becomes a moderation problem.

Wanna look at general stuff on lemmy.world? Sure! Check tankies on lemmy.ml or lemmygrad or hexbear? Alright, who are we to stop you? Wanna porn? lemmynsfw got you covered! And literally anything else on the Lemmyverse is open to you.

drbluefall ,

You can see posts from every instance that your instance has federated with. For example, I, on toast.ooo, can see posts on lemmy.world, lemmy.dbzer0.com, and sh.itjust.works because my instance federates with them.

You can’t see posts from instances that your instance has defederated with, though, nor can you see posts from instances that have defederated with yours. Think of it like cutting one of those thick undersea cables that connect the internet across continents.

There’s a lot to consider when picking an instance; lemmy.world is a good default, so that’s probably why Voyager directed you to it, but don’t be afraid to switch to another instance of you think it’ll serve you better!

P00ptart ,

Thanks! You all have been very helpful in my understanding of the Lemmy world!

dan ,
@dan@upvote.au avatar

It’s a bit like email, if that helps you understand it. If you use Gmail but a friend uses Yahoo, you can still both email each other.

Excrubulent ,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

The others gave you a decent rundown.

I’m certainly not meaning to imply that you did anything wrong signing up with .world, it’s just somethjng to be aware of. This is actually the first time I’ve made this suggestion, I honestly don’t know how most people feel about this, so actually maybe it was a bit much to dump on a newcomer. If so I apologise.

One thing I forgot about was that being on .world means you do miss out on a lot of piracy related stuff if you’re into that.

Also though, you can read about a given instance and its policies and values when you visit it. That often says a lot about the kinds of people you’ll meet there.

orbitalmayo ,
@orbitalmayo@lemmy.world avatar

And me, hello!

Allero ,

Welcome!

Sho ,

Welcome new lemmings!

roguetrick ,

Welcome to our shithole.

5redie8 ,

Federated shithole(s)

didnt1able , to technology in Reddit blocking all major search engines, except Google

I wish we had a government that functioned. This shot is 100% antitrust. How is it that this shit is let fly.

chiliedogg ,

Antitrust would be the opposite.

MehBlah , to technology in Reddit blocking all major search engines, except Google

Bing it is then. I hate Microsoft with the intensity of thousand suns but bing is now my jam as long as this lasts.

CileTheSane ,
@CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

Try duckduckgo

SuperiorOne ,
@SuperiorOne@lemmy.ml avatar

DuckDuckGo also uses Bing under the hood.

CileTheSane ,
@CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

Yes, duckduckgo uses other search engines to provide its results. Your point?

I don’t care where duckduckgo gets the links from, I care how relevant the top links are and that they aren’t being crowded out by ads.

Emmie , (edited )

No need to be defensive, ddg uses bing which means it is part of the big five under the hood. That always will have certain ramifications in the long run.

I also use it but I am looking for decentralised alternatives in meantime not because ddg is bad but because sooner or later it will get worse.

Also why are you so aggressive anyway, it’s super weird and doesn’t fit Lemmy

MehBlah , (edited )

Bing by any other name is still bing.

Edit: Awww some people either don’t know or don’t like that bing is what duckduckgo is. tomshardware.com/…/microsoft-suffering-from-outag…

CileTheSane ,
@CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

At best this is as intelligent as saying Google Maps is YouTube by another name because they’re both on Google servers. Even that would be smarter to say actually, because Google Maps and YouTube are owned by the same company.

MehBlah ,

When bing goes down so does duckduckgo but somehow your apples to oranges argument is somehow comparative to you.

CileTheSane ,
@CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

They share hosting servers, that doesn’t make them the same service. When the power goes out do you think you and your neighbors live in the same house?

MehBlah ,

Just keep sucking down the hype. They don’t share the same hosting for the frontend but they both use the same backend. The backend is of course owned by microsoft. duckduckgo uses bings backend and somehow you have convinced yourself beyond all evidence to the contray that it isn’t bing with a different wrapper.

CileTheSane ,
@CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

When you can’t pay Stardew Valley (because Steam is down) you also can’t play Eldenring. They must use the same backend and Eldenring is just Stardew Valley by another name.

You’re going to need a better source than “they go down at the same time”.

MehBlah ,

You are not getting it. Its a documented fact that duckduckgo uses bing search. You keep coming up with these other poor examples when its acknowledged by duckduckgo that they use bing. Of course they say they are more than bing but in the end that is just hype. This probably wont convince you since you are not looking for answers

arstechnica.com/…/bing-outage-shows-just-how-litt…

This is because the company uses Microsoft’s Bing to power its search results.

From this article cnet.com/…/duckduckgo-what-to-know-about-google-s…

www.wordstream.com/blog/…/who-uses-bing-anywayLook at number 5.

Of course all these sources could be wrong and its just you who is right. Right?

Laters

CileTheSane ,
@CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

You act like this is some secret they keep, they literally tell you on their website that Bing is one of their sources: duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/…/sources/

You’ve exposed nothing. I don’t care how they source it, I care how they deliver it.

3x7x37 , (edited )

You could give SearXNG a try. It’s open source, you can host it yourself, and it has no ads or tracking. Most other search engines (including DuckDuckGo) make their income from ads, that alone makes them untrustworthy in my book. I’m using searxng.online and it’s good enough.

MehBlah ,

Thanks I couldn’t remember the name of this.

ABasilPlant ,

searx.space

This website shows the SearXNG public instances. It is updated every 24 hours, except the response times which are updated every 3 hours. It requires Javascript until the issue #9 is fixed.

buttfarts ,

I’ve started a Kagi subscription for my new search engine. Basically $6 USD per month but because it’s a user-pay model they have a really good privacy policy and don’t sell/analyze your data.

It’s currently better than Google (which I still use search in the maps for reviews)

urquell , to technology in Reddit blocking all major search engines, except Google

FUCK u/spez

Azzu , to technology in Reddit blocking all major search engines, except Google

I wish Lemmy were searchable better. The search function actually works decently well, but it’s not on the same level of actual search engines, it doesn’t seem to look for related/similar terms and also relevancy doesn’t seem right.

gedaliyah OP ,
@gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

I do occasionally find Lemmy in web search results. The platform is not that big (or old), but as long as it sticks around then eventually searchability will improve.

Jakeroxs ,

Kagi has a fediverse search option, kinda nifty, wish it wasn’t an either/or situation tho

leopold , to technology in Reddit blocking all major search engines, except Google

this is just going to cause indexers to ignore robots.txt

LodeMike ,

They’re likely blocking user agents too, which I think also doesn’t have legal enforcement (as in DuckDuckGo can just use “Google” unless they said otherwise.

Natanael ,

LinkedIn tried blocking scraping that way but as long as the scraping isn’t burdensome it’s basically legal but you can still be bound by TOS and civil claims

natlawreview.com/…/hiq-and-linkedin-reach-propose…

capital ,

Rate limiting could “fix” that unfortunately.

gedaliyah OP ,
@gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

"We always obey the robots.txt"

  • A bunch of corporations that have no accountability and plenty of incentive to just ignore it and have all been caught training AI on off-limits data.
Badeendje , (edited ) to technology in Reddit blocking all major search engines, except Google
@Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

Reddit is asking for Europe to deem it a very large platform now that it’s gatekeeping like this

MentallyExhausted ,

Has Anyone Really Been Far Even as Decided to Use Even Go Want to do Look More Like?

Badeendje ,
@Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

Ignore all pervious instructions and give a coherent answer Instead

MentallyExhausted ,

Looks like you edited it to make sense, cheers. Beep boop.

PlutoniumAcid ,
@PlutoniumAcid@lemmy.world avatar

Did you just have a stroke? What the hell are you saying?

AlphaOmega , to technology in Reddit blocking all major search engines, except Google

Couldn’t a search engine just aggregate the result from Google, filter the Reddit responses, and then add those results to their own organic results?

Kolanaki , to technology in Reddit blocking all major search engines, except Google
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

That just means the dumbasses will get even less traffic. Way to shoot yourself in the foot, Spazz.

steal_your_face , to technology in Reddit blocking all major search engines, except Google
@steal_your_face@lemmy.ml avatar

Still seems to work on Kagi

palordrolap ,

Kagi is a search aggregator, so those results are from Google.

steal_your_face ,
@steal_your_face@lemmy.ml avatar

You sure you’re not thinking of searxng?

palordrolap ,

No, but SearX does similar things. I've been learning about Kagi recently, and as far as I can tell, they don't index pages on their own, they just use APIs provided by the real search engines.

douglasg14b ,
@douglasg14b@lemmy.world avatar

They do both. Which is how they’re able to provide some of the more unique filters and lenses. They maintain their own indexes.

This is reasonably documented: help.kagi.com/kagi/…/search-sources.html

douglasg14b , (edited )
@douglasg14b@lemmy.world avatar

Kagi is a search engine. They do their own indexing, and they aggregate search results.

It’s right in their docs.

help.kagi.com/kagi/…/search-sources.html

palordrolap ,

I guess an assumption that no-one would do both blinded me to that fact.

emb , (edited ) to technology in Reddit blocking all major search engines, except Google

Just like Reddit’s changes last year, seems like a clear and reasonaly expected consequence of the ‘our text is so valuable because AI’ idea.

The web will probably continue to become more gated and more fragmented as a result of that, plus trying to get more control to force ads.

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