@roguetrick@TheSlad I occasionally talk to groups kids or sometimes adults about dinosaurs. A lot of them are still surprised to learn that all birds actually are dinosaurs (descendants from the only lineage(s) that managed to survive the K-Pg extinction event).
Surprisingly (or perhaps not surprisingly) people’re often resistant to the idea that birds are dinosaurs, i.e. that not all dinosaurs died out. The fact that many were feathered is helping shift the paradigm
I kinda see your point but still oppose such restrictive policies. It’s not worth it. If you sacrifice freedom to gain security, you will lose both in the long run.
Did you consider that the luggage needed time and personal space for a while? Of course you didn’t. You only think about yourself. “No one should have to wait for their luggage” my ass.
If you work with LaTeX for five years and still have no idea what a hbox is or what that message means, you should not consider naming this “experience”.
I already explained this in my post of yesterday in this thread. I’ve been the TeX admin at our university in my student times. I’ve been creating styles and \shipout macros. I know this stuff inside out. Heck, I’ve even read good parts of the source to understand some finer points.
But of course, how else could you describe yourself as having experience with TeX? /s
I think our TeX savvy lemming here confuses a knowledge level in the expert/consultant sphere with “having experience”.
Having worked with LaTeX on and off for 15 years, and on occasions developing TeX macros (ie copy pasting stuff from stackoverflow and shotgun debugging it until it sorta works) and creating various graphics with PGF/TikZ, I would describe myself as having extended experience with the TeX environment. But I still can’t tell you exactly what causes \hbox underfull without looking it up… Probably because it’s never caused a failure to output my documents.
Well, you can use a tool, and acquire just enough knowledge to use it without too many accidents. And then simply give up on progressing any farther. Or you can keep digging into the mountain of knowledge to improve your skills farther and deeper. It is always your choice.
“Using LaTeX” and and “programing with LaTeX” are very different things. For most people, LaTeX is a means to an end, for you LaTeX is your whole job. You’re the exception, and exception can not be an example.
Linux is honestly great, literally the only things holding it back is programs supporting it. I’m painfully tied to a select few windows programs for work and hobbies, Wine tries its best but programs need to start supporting linux before proper adoption can kick off.
I have found that steam proton is a powerful wine machine. I’m not sure if it would help with any of the programs you are trying to run as it does have limits, but I’ve been shoving a ton of .exe files into steam and they usually work flawlessly.
I’m lucky where I’ve been able to get everything I need to work on Linux. It’s also very simple to get the stuff that I thought was windows only to work on Linux. Hell I was able to get some random Elden Ring program needed for a mod to work.
Thankfully though it’s not hard to find what will and won’t work on Linux. I’m on an Arch distro so AUR is a life saver. I’d say 8 or 9 times out of time someone has already got a repo for what I need.
And the reason those few programs don’t support Linux is because they don’t think we have enough users. So don’t hold up on using linux for that reason, it’s just a circle.
Yes, I’ve been trying hard to squeeze some linux into my life, currently trying to turn an old laptop into a little music machine for jamming with on me midi keyboard. I’ve run across quite a few issues just trying to get specific software working. I did cave at one point and try to use windows 10 but their installation media tool would fail every time I tried and the hardware is too old for windows 11 lol. It also triggered my gag reflex just thinking of all the ads it would feed me and all the bullshit I’d have to disable to make it respect my privacy. A number of different distros just worked flawlessly, though, and if all I needed to do was simple computer things and web I’d be laughing.
Some software is always going to have problems. Specially if the developer never had to work with linux.
In my case I think of it like my choice of Linux like how people may choose other lifestyle. It’s not about having superior experience in everything, but about general good experience and self satisfaction.
Just think of it this way, people in the 90s were happy with the softwares they had, so if some subset of software is not available to me it’s not end of the world. On the flip side many softwares are only available to me because of linux, my favorite is poppler-tools that allow me to merge PDFs and other pdf related tasks that in windows you’d need to pay Adobe for. If you compare and want things that you can’t have it’ll always make you unhappy. Everytime you search for a tool, search in linux websites or search source codes and you’ll be happy to ignore any tools that have a lot of licensing complications and windows only support. Not saying that’s the way to do it, but that’s how I do it.
This is where I’m trying to get to. Any new software I try to make sure is foss and linux where possible. It’s just a bit of a pain with music because there’s a lot of tools I’ve bought over the years and would like to continue using.
Lots more is holding it back, but I’d agree apps is a huge issue.
It’s still has significant issues with being end-user friendly. Needing to use command line for some things that should be a right click, not supporting right click, ambiguities galore when looking at a package repository, odd defaults in packages that one really wouldn’t expect to have to check (e.g. Selecting RDP connection in a Remote app, but it defaults the security to something other than RDP?)
As for apps, there’s problems like Libre Office devs refusing to support tables in the spreadsheet app, saying data management should be done with a database tool. While they’re not wrong, it takes a LOT more effort to setup a DB than to simply click “make table” in excel, which millions of people are familiar with. I create tables every day for run-of-the-mill stuff that simply doesn’t need a database. No one has time for that.
Or you plug in the most prolific wireless mouse on the planet, that’s been around since 2000 (Logitech), and it doesn’t work. Now pick any random piece of hardware and this is the stuff you run into. You go down the rabbit hole of searching for a solution
Or CAD (which falls in your app argument).
Linux is great for many things (things I run, UnRAID, TrueNAS, Proxmox, etc), it’s just not a great general purpose desktop for the average user, yet.
I create tables every day for run-of-the-mill stuff that simply doesn’t need a database. No one has time for that.
It seems that your issue isn’t the lack of tables in sheets but no easy way to create a simple db.
If we want to break Microsoft’s monopoly than we can’t do that by reimplementing Microsoft’s monopolistic ecosystem. And that creates the opportunity to correct questionable and arbitrary Microsoft decisions.
People are used to MS Office now but so were they used to typewriters a few decades ago. And if we’re changing OSes we don’t have to stick to one office suite.
A very simple problem that I absolutely hate in LibreOffice that I can’t find a solution for. When typing in a formula in a spreadsheet and then trying to autocomplete it, you cannot use ‘Tab’. If you want to do a vlookup and start typing “=vloo” and then hit ‘Tab’ it just changes to the next column. Working in Excel at work and then switching to Calc at home is jarring and terrible. That option can’t be changed as far as I know. It’s a complete dealbreaker for me between the two. Luckily I don’t need to do much in my personal life on spreadsheets anymore or need to use my home PC for work like I used to.
Yeah, there’s still some other little things, but it’s surprising just how good the out of the box experience is, especially considering how little support the project has had from hardware and software vendors.
I understand the face value of it, but I really hate the argument of (basically) “Linux isnt going to take off until it just becomes Windows (or emulates it perfectly click for click)”
People always act like Linux is less buttery smooth two click accessible as a style choice, but cranking out a system like that and keeping it up costs money. If Linux dedicated to supporting every dongle on the planet themselves and all this other shiz, they’d have to monetize too.
So much less now needs the terminal. Personally, I don’t get why people don’t mind doing a search to find where windows hid some particular setting 3 submenus deep, but lose their fucking mind over the thought of doing a search to double check which command they need.
Linux doesn’t need to change, people’s priorities need to shift. This obsession with free services and not having to know shit about how shit works is how we got here, and shaking that is the only way out. For example, People will recognize that google is bad but if you point out you can get a domain and basic email hosting for $20/yr or whatever, its always “sucks teeth yeaaaaa but i dont have $20 for something like that and idk how stuff works” conveniently, you dont need to “yeaaaaa, but nooooooo”
Like, I hate cars, but I can’t imagine not knowing how to change a tire or my oil, etc basic stuff, but there are people who call AAA when they get a flat. Its nuts to me.
Linux wont take off until the friction for new users is low enough that the layman can resolve issues without resorting to techniques outside of their understanding and patience. Even as someone who uses linux, there are a ton of things that should have a GUI / just be a context menu entry. If you can get the same amount of work done with a button click rather than typing out a complicated command line string, you might as well use the GUI, right click menu, etc. and make it easier for the typical person. People these days can barely use tablets, and those already dumb things down to icons you tap. Unfortunately, making it accessible to the lowest common denominator is what makes things popular a major factor in making things popular
But you can do nearly everything with the GUI in Linux for a while now. The level of stuff you would need to use the terminal for is the same level on Windows you would need the command-line for, or (SHUDDER) the registry.
In fact, I would argue that doing things in Linux via the GUI is easier than even on Windows. I’m speaking as a user of KDE Plasma. I personally dislike Gnome.
Personally, I don’t get why people don’t mind doing a search to find where windows hid some particular setting 3 submenus deep, but lose their fucking mind over the thought of doing a search to double check which command they need.
Because they like to believe that the former is how smart computer users do things.
I’m sorry, your standard 2000 era Logitech mouse doesn’t work? I find that hard to believe. I’ve been using Linux as my only desktop Os and Logitech mice both since 2000, and if there is one thing that always has worked, its the mice.
Or you plug in the most prolific wireless mouse on the planet, that’s been around since 2000 (Logitech), and it doesn’t work. Now pick any random piece of hardware and this is the stuff you run into. You go down the rabbit hole of searching for a solution
Have you not heard of logiops? Sure it needs a bit of config file editing, but now I’m a click and a shake away from switching activities, and music and… Honestly, it rocks
Needing to use command line for some things that should be a right click, not supporting right click, ambiguities galore when looking at a package repository, odd defaults in packages that one really wouldn’t expect to have to check (e.g. Selecting RDP connection in a Remote app, but it defaults the security to something other than RDP?)
Sounds like you’re using a GNOME Desktop. You should give KDE Plasma a try instead. KDE Plasma basically gives you a Windows-esq experience without trying to install something like GNOME extensions.
For a regular user there’s not much point into going into the command-line anymore.
there’s problems like Libre Office devs …
Sure but there’s also alternatives. LibreOffice doesn’t try to emulate Microsoft Office and they never really have. They won’t even try to be compatible with MS Office but rather they do with OOXML which Microsoft created for other Office suites to be compatible with it but then just never supported it very well. Some alternatives do however. WPS Office is perhaps the most popular alternative for this that does try to be compatible with MS Office and emulate its feel and features but ONLYOFFICE is also a contender.
Needing to use command line for some things that should be a right click
Right click where? All major DE’s/WM’s implement stuff in their own way. The problem here is we don’t (and won’t) have a unified GUI that everyone uses, unlike the other two main OS’s. (Note: I don’t see this as a problem, more as a result of the FLOSS ecosystem being such a rich soil to build stuff on.)
There’s also Xfce4, MATE, Cinnamon which come ith man, OS installers as an option. Not to mention various smaller projects (e.g. LXDE or whatever the cool kids use nowadays). Personally I’ve been spoilt by Awesome WM since 2008 and can’t live without terminal/shell.
Needing to use command line for some things that should be a right click, not supporting right click
You can do nearly everything you need to via the GUI on the major distros (the ones that most people would use). There’s plenty of things on Windows you must use the command-line for.
And anytime you need to use the Run dialogue it’s the same argument. It’s the same “issue” of having to type instead of using your mouse.
And if you don’t need to use the command-line on Windows, it’s the registry. The awful, terrible, horrible, disgusting registry.
I’m not actually sure what on earth you mean with “not supporting right click”. Maybe you’re thinking of older Mac versions?
it’s just not a great general purpose desktop for the average user,
I think the biggest shift in the last 20 years is troubleshooting in Linux and windows.
20 years ago and I had to troubleshoot issues and Linux. It genuinely required a good bit of computer knowledge to get it done. Sometimes hours of work to figure out how to get a webcam to work Or how to fix grub?
Windows back then used to be so easy. And there was usually something that would do a quick fix.
However, now and I run across a windows issue. It’s a nightmare. I can put hours of work into trying to fix a driver issue or an issue with updates and get nowhere. Then go to reinstall the operating system and have to spend more hours just to get it installed.
Now in Linux, not only do I rarely have issues but also fixing those issues are pretty straightforward. And if I can’t fix it a reinstall takes minutes and I’m back up and running in no time.
Well OBVIOUSLY you need to set HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session\Windows\Microsoft\Win10\MSWindows\CockNBalls\BSODWord to 0 then restart your computer.
Except you already have that update installed, the box is not checked and the entry is still respected, nobody could possibly tell you why because that’s not how it’s supposed to work and everyone else works as stated! And now you have to live with the knowledge that your system is in some unobserved quantum superposition with a critical fix in place which may stop working at any moment for any reason and nobody can tell you how you even managed to get into this situation…
You forgot that you also need to create a new 32bit word entry with the value of the amount of system RAM in gigabytes times 2 divided by the square root of your age times 10.
Otherwise BSODWord won’t be picked up.
Edit: also you need to redo that every time your system updates because Windows update will reset all those values
As a part-time sysadmin at my small company. We use Altium and Solidworks, so we need windows.
I have 10x more windows problems than Linux problems like a bug for around 5 or so people where a windows update would disable the microphone, but every single microphone menu and setting would say it is enabled and working properly. You HAD to use their troubleshooter (which they are now phasing out, wtf) in order for it to be auto fixed. So soon it will probably be replaced by something else that won’t fix the issue.
0 information online about it, 501 different way to fix audio issues, none of which work.
Nowadays the only problems that I have with Linux are slight bugs or user errors, honestly.
This was one of the main reasons I made the switch.
when I was using win10/11 for whatever reason once or twice a year, always at least once a year, the wifi on my laptop would just working. just wouldn’t connect to anything. sometimes doing a hardreset would work but usually it wouldn’t. even uninstalling and reinstalling the drivers did nothing. Nope Windows would just randomly decide that this thing isn’t worth it’s salt and wouldn’t acknowledge it’s existance. the ONLY fix was to reinstall the OS. It’s not like I was doing anything, just Windows deciding it didn’t want to work.
Now on Linux everything just works. if I have issues it’s because of my own doing and they’re easy to work cause I know what I did wrong. worse comes to worse I got auto backups and just need to reinstall which takes all of like 5min. Or I can use it as an excuse to try another distro.
That’s my biggest issue, I’m just so addicted to tweaking the thing now that it’s a dangerous rabbit hole to go down cause I know i’ll end up breaking something. It’s fun though. Just constantly tweaking and adjusting to get it “just right”.
I went through that phase too! The tweak times are so much fun and breaking things is a good way to learn.
Now I am in a sane defaults mode. Where I just want everything to work well. Pop on so far has been rock solid. I actually have been trying to not touch the terminal to see how that feels as a user. In been 4 months and so far it hasn’t been a problem.
yeah that’s what I’m using. I have snapshots set up to automatically be taken. at first it wasn’t because I didn’t realize the cronie service wasn’t enabled, but now it’s all good. takes a snapshot monthly, 3 times daily, and at boot.
Nowadays I just roll my Linux installation back to before the updates using the BTRFS integration with the package manager. It works great and I’m never at a point where I can’t use my computer because updates broke it. Heck, even if I bork it myself it’s no biggie.
I wanted to dual boot Windows 10 for a few games after I switched off. I can’t get the damn drivers for my hard drives to work. I just gave up on Windows entirely.
For me, one of the other annoyances is that both Windows and Mac OS push their services. Windows it’s gotten ridiculous and on Mac. I just don’t have the compatibility with all the stuff I want to use. Like I’m not in the ecosystem so it just doesn’t work for me as an operating system
However, now and I run across a windows issue. It’s a nightmare. I can put hours of work into trying to fix a driver issue or an issue with updates and get nowhere. Then go to reinstall the operating system and have to spend more hours just to get it installed.
Now in Linux, not only do I rarely have issues but also fixing those issues are pretty straightforward. And if I can’t fix it a reinstall takes minutes and I’m back up and running in no time.
THANK YOU. I’m sick of this rhetoric about Linux being hard and user-unfriendly because of the command-line.
Windows is such a pain to use for a while now. You need a ton of post install scripts and hacks to make it even remotely usable and when something goes wrong good luck figuring out what. The event viewer is usually just a bunch of vague COM errors with an ID. Then when you look up that ID it’s barely more useful than “something went wrong”.
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