Honestly way less afraid of China snooping on my data than US corporations. Only one of those groups regularly colludes with the FBI/CIA/other three letter agencies.
Tankies failing to comprehend the fundamental difference between an actor who tries to make money off you and an actor trying to manufacture dissent and influence the public narrative
Point taken, though it’s still an American company they could crack down upon if they prove too dangerous too.
To be clear: I don’t want to get spied upon by anyone and I don’t use most of the American services for that reason. But obviously domestic bad actors are better than bad actors controlled by a foreign and hostile government
It would be a lot better if Congress could pass a comprehensive privacy bill, but we lack a functioning government so I guess this is the best we can do.
… it’s obvious because a domestic entity is subject to local laws, and can if push comes to shove be shut down or nationalized. A foreign one is essentially out of reach.
Why is it contentious that a government can better curb foreign interference if it is done on a domestic platform? Regardless of how shitty the United States are that’s a simple fact and also practiced by China, only to a much greater extent.
I have no horse in the race, I’m not an American. I don’t know or really care to what extent the corrupt shithole that is America can control its own corporations due to regulatory capture. That’s your own problem to fix.
All I’m arguing is that from the perspective of the us government it makes perfect sense to be wary of foreign influence before its own corps.
Didn’t tiktok just accidentally prove the American legislator’s argument by causing mass calls into the legislators office or something? Endless amounts of people who don’t even know why they are calling, just because “tiktok said so”. Are you telling me that isn’t a disturbing implication?
The existence of the article you’re literally commenting on directly refutes what you’re saying here. Like you’re in a thread because of news that demonstrates that the opposite of what you’re saying here is actually true.
If you need more examples - What happened to Facebook after the Cambridge Analytica scandal? They got banned by congress right? They got shut down? The government stopped them from continuing to manipulate the public?
It’s crazy to me that people such as you unironically believe the position you’re saying that American companies are easier to crack down on.
We are literally seeing concrete proof in action that domestic companies are much harder to crack down on or regulate. They are much better positioned to lobby and are currently using their immense political power to protect themselves while removing their foreign rivals. There isn’t even talk of taking action against them because they are so politically powerful.
Read the other comments, I don’t want to repeat myself for every idiot jumping on the dogpile. Why does every single China fan assume I love the United States and have a blind eye towards their bullshit? I’m not an American.
But I am not accusing you of anything…? Unless you think asking you to check If what you’re about to comment has been commented several times before is an accusation.
It’s okay though I’m just about done arguing over this topic. All responses can essentially be summed up with “but the USA do it too”.
You pretend you are objective, while insinuating the motive of USA companies is solely to make money and advertise, while China is the big baddie “narrative” manipulator, which is some alternate reality bullshit. China is not the country that has done foreign interventions and/or genocides in 100+ countries. Or stuff like the genocide in Myanmar which Facebook facilitated, or the intentional misreporting Reuters did during Tiananmen Square to make it look like those CIA paycheck “democracy” students who burnt PLA soldiers alive first were good people.
Why are you, again, telling me that “the United States do it too”? Does it not compute that it doesn’t have any bearing on this argument?
From the perspective of the United States government it makes perfect sense to be hostile towards Chinese influence before its own platforms. If they wanted to curb foreign interference there, they could, their failure to do so is just a symptom of regulatory capture. That’s the whole argument here.
It doesn’t matter for this argument what atrocities they committed elsewhere or how poorly the country is run in various ways.
Besides, China does the exact same thing itself. All foreign corporations in the country operate under strict regulations or as junior partners to Chinese companies, and can and will be kicked out for much less than what tiktok does. And those corporations are not directly tied to foreign governments as tiktok is.
There is no whataboutism in pointing out your argument is reversed and completely false. Also, “whataboutism” is a dog whistle word used by Westerners for deflection used to abrupt or end the argument when there are no real counterpoints. And since US government loves to demonize their “near-peer competitors” (official term) China and Russia, it is perfectly fair to argue with US in perspective.
will be kicked out for much less than what tiktok does
Tesla car cameras were being used by CIA to spy on Chinese military areas. Tesla got banned from roaming around military areas and still operates and manufactures there.
TikTok, regardless of the country of origin, is known to be spyware on a much greater level than everything else on this list. It collects every click, interaction, and even your clipboard, among other things, sometimes while not using the app.
Yes, this kind of data harvesting should be illegal for Google, Facebook, etc. Do something about it, US government. Unfortunately our next best option is to use FOSS where possible.
Yeah I remember when TikTok was first getting popular in the States, and some reverse engineer I followed on Twitter posted his findings about it, and it was honestly pretty terrifying. Like unfettered access to your device, regardless of permissions granted, and remote code execution capabilities kind of terrifying. I don’t think Spotify does that lmao
Ahhh, typical Hexbear, jumping to the conclusion that I am racist because I said TikTok is bad without any citations. See the other reply in the thread for the citations.
TikTok is not the only company that uses its pixels throughout the internet. The report found Google, Meta and Microsoft, among others, use these trackers.
Your first link has a sentence expressly disproving your own thesis, so in addition to concluding you are a racist, I can also now conclude that you didn’t read your own sources.
Goalpost shifting, your original post said that TikTok is known to be spyware on a much greater level than anything else on this list.
Your statement isn’t true even if you prove that Tiktok is the worst offender on the list. You need to prove that Tiktok is worse to a much higher degree than anything else on that list. Your own source straight out says that at least 3 of the other companies on the list engage in similar practices.
TikTok is not the only company that uses its pixels throughout the internet. The report found Google, Meta and Microsoft, among others, use these trackers.
Nothing beats Instagram, Facebook, Google, Microsoft or Twitter in spyware. Have you heard of the Snowden revelations? These companies provide all their data to US spies.
TikTok, regardless of the country of origin, is known to be spyware on a much greater level than everything else on this list. It collects every click, interaction, and even your clipboard, among other things, sometimes while not using the app.
Can you provide concrete proof that this is the case, when compared to other Western social media platforms? You sound like a scientologist.
ABC News does not provide the “cybersecurity report” they “obtained”. Usually this is a sign of Washington ordering news outlets to do their thing. Wired looks the same. And going by the video format of WSJ tabloid, it also has nothing of substance that technically breaks down things.
The fundamental difference is who is in control, and for what purpose.
American spyware is controlled by corporations, and is all about selling you shit you don’t need.
Chinese (and Russian) spyware is–apparently–controlled rather directly by their respective governments, and is being used to suppress democracy and increase polarization in the US and EU.
I don’t like any spyware. But the latter category–spyware that’s functionally state-sponsored–is clearly more immediately dangerous. The former is more like a slow-growing cancer.
I mean, that’s part of the reason that I’m here, rather than The Place That Shall Not Be Named. That, and because my account was permanently banned because I suggested torching the house of a someone flying a nazi flag.
All of the US corporate social media platforms are part of the US military-industrial-intellegence complex now. Look at their boards of directors and executives. Look at the Twitter Files. Look Hamilton 68.
Id be surprised if all admins of every instance that’s federated with Lemmy are all on the same page, let alone looking for narrative driven bots.
I see “Ukrainian combat footage” with hundreds of upvotes and no comments, there was also an article speaking positively about facebook that had lots of upvotes and no comments (it’s in my history of you look, because I commented lol) - those look like red flags to me
I don’t find the first strange, but I also find combat footage both interesting and not worth commenting on. Plus I think a lot of people just upvote Ukraine stuff and move along because there’s no more conversation to be had in general.
That second one does seem a little weird, but Lemmy’s more than capable of licking corporate boot when you phrase it correctly to them. I’ve always found that strange in general.
Twitter files are mostly a tool for Elon Musks policy. Wiki entry shows enough of why they are problematic. The Hamilton 68 controversy isn’t a big thing like you are pretending. If anything their database was misunderstood. businessinsider.com/what-is-hamilton-68-russian-o…
Glad to see the first comment in this chain being one calling out the usage of the Twitter files as a serious supporting point for anything but a point of deflection by Mr “I don’t use pr firms”.
Immediately emptied out a salt shaker on how I viewed everything else in the original comment :| homie thinks the Twitter files are relevant… ehhh I probably don’t have much interest or respect in any of their other opinions
guess I’m being downvoted by the tinfoil hats in here anyway. Same as the twitter users, it’s often not bots that are the problem but rather dumb people :-(
I’m not defending China here, but since Snowden we now know that American corporate spyware does serve the government. And they are suppressing democracy - this isn’t a democracy yet, and peaceful protests for democracy are met with violent police resistance - Occupy, BLM, etc.
I sincerely hope that Lemmy can grow large enough to serve as a staging ground for democratic protests in America, just because it’s not corporate controlled.
Microsoft has collaborated closely with US intelligence services to allow users’ communications to be intercepted, including helping the National Security Agency to circumvent the company’s own encryption, according to top-secret documents obtained by the Guardian.
The files provided by Edward Snowden illustrate the scale of co-operation between Silicon Valley and the intelligence agencies over the last three years. They also shed new light on the workings of the top-secret Prism program, which was disclosed by the Guardian and the Washington Post last month.
Well yeah, by default Microsoft holds your encryption keys. Why wouldn’t they be able to unencrypt it? Implement Customer Key if you want to hold your own encryption keys.
Even if the corporation that holds onto the genetic data isn’t selling it for profit (which I doubt), they still likely have terrible security on their servers. How many data breaches have there been over the years?
Also, you don’t actually need to share your own data to be vulnerable. Some stupid relative sharing their genetic information is enough to have some ideas about you. I’m fortunate that it’s hasn’t caught on in my home country.
At first I thought you were being serious, but I think this is a joke? That Americans don’t care how many companies spy on them as long as it’s not the government?
Which, is laughable because of course the government has contacts at everyone one of these companies and they’d gladly hand over your data then go to court to protect it
No, you're misunderstanding. The Chinese government has significantly more influence and power over Chinese companies than the US federal government has over US companies. People are acting like both are the same, but they are not.
This is sort of true, though it’s hard to make a clear distinction between US capitalists and the US government when the capitalists control the government, and have since the 1776 bourgeois revolution.
It should be a known fact at this point that US companies share all the data the goverment wants, i don’t think the greater influence matters in this case.
All of the US corporate social media platforms are part of the US military-industrial-intellegence complex. Look at their boards of directors and executives. Look at the Twitter Files. Look Hamilton 68.
You're also misunderstanding. I won't deny that US companies seek profit wherever they can, even from unethical sources. I also don't doubt their involvement with law enforcement and intelligence agencies. But a company seeking profit through a partnership with the United States federal government is not the same as the totalitarian Chinese government requiring oversight of Chinese companies.
It might not seem like a big difference to you, but it's an important one to me.
If you find it upsetting that the Chinese state imposes its will on the Chinese capitalist class, then you must really like capitalism, where the capitalist class imposes its will on the state.
This meme is a bit dishonest because its about Chinese government harvesting this data not about companies harvesting it. Both are bad but ones substantially worse.
How the Chinese government having my (Westerner’s in a NATO country) data is any worse than Western (and thus subpoenable by the Western governments) corporations having it?
Cause somebody is selling the Chinese king false dreams of invading America. And maybe having documents on every American citizen would be helpful post invasion.
You’re on the same “Risk Board game” like the rest of us. If you’re not in the American sphere of influence then NSA is just taking all your metadata the harder way.
If this is your basis of evaluation of spying, this is straight up xenophobic and racist. Why? Because you (and Anglos) intentionally abuse the language barrier as a way to obfuscate the difference between spying and regular internet activity. This is reddit tier bullshit that almost every “investigative” YouTuber and blogger does.
Calling people "Anglos" as if their race somehow defines their worldview is racist. Expressing concern because an application with alleged ties to an authoritarian regime is sending data to an endpoint within said regime's borders might be silly, but it has nothinvg to do with race. With respect, that right there is some Israel "pointing out our human rights atrocities is antisemitic" level of bullshit.
World systems theory woukd suggest that the inner core should have shifted in the 21st century to include at thd very least China. Western powers may have been dominant in the mid to late 20th century but that is decidedly no longer the case; China fits every metric offered by the theory.
I doubt OP meant that anyway, given that their statements were directed at individual actors and not national powers.
Regardless, expressing concern because an app that both has ties to an authoritarian regime AND is effectively banned in that regime is understandable. Screaming RACIST at anyone who dares criticize China and calling them Anglos is both ridiculous and racist itself.
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They were physically relocated to the US so that the US can access the data, as people like Edward Snowden and Mark Klein have shown us. I’m sure the US knows precisely what data is and isn’t being sent to China.
Is it illegal for Swedish companies to store user data? Is it illegal for them to sell user data? Do they have very strict rules about showing users every time and how data they generate is saved?
Is there some way to trick the chatgpt training bots by intentionally mislabeling data? Like can I upload some furry pornography tasteful erotica and label it “AP US history assignment - Civil War”?
So much data to infer from your music tastes. Listening to music about breakup? You had a breakup yourself. Listening to classical music? You’re a top earner. Listening to Eminem? You like mom’s spaghetti.
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