Yep. Some of the mods that mod 5+ communities are openly calling NATO fascist.
There’s a lot of pro-china sentiment where users encourage people moving to china, denying Tianmen Square events, and encourage full annexation of Taiwan.
It’s just lemmingrad 2.0
I block every .ml community on sight, as they’re laced with tankie propaganda/agenda.
I thought we got rid of fascist, right wing losers. Don’t you guys like your echo chambers? Then go to truth social or twitter. Don’t bring your garbage views here. Thanks
I don’t feel like I’m smart, I’d save average at best…but I truly do feel like the majority of the general public that I am around is less intelligent than I am
Why would that make sense? Yuki has 2 points this season, Perez has 5 podiums and like 156 points. Why would RB downgrade MASSIVELY?
lmao, I really am dealing with a bona fide genius here.
It’s just not worth devoting the time to argue with people like yourself who are so indoctrinated and misinformed. Your maladaptive thinking style can’t even begin to be reprogrammed until you yourself realize that you’ve fallen victim to this.
So there’s just no reason to devote time and effort articulating a well-argued retort with supporting evidence when your beliefs aren’t based in reality, you can’t effectively scrutinize accurate information, and your beliefs are so deeply internalized and unwilling to be challenged, that it feels like devoting the time of day to argue with a toddler who can’t grasp the concept you’re discussing.
The truth is, trying to debate people like you is a useless, fruitless waste of time. You’re going to reject information, truths and logic you do not like, and your delusional beliefs will remain insulated by rationalization and other maladaptive coping strategies to reduce the cognitive dissonance you experience when you have that momentary realization that your beliefs may not be accurate.
The truth is you’re just a waste of time for reasonable people to engage with. I’m not going to waste my time debating you here, but feel free to respond and get the last word in. I know that helps people feel like they’ve “won” an argument. You can respond with ad hominem, deflection, and baseless accusations against me like you’ve done to others. Doesn’t change the fact that you’re damaged goods no one here feels obligated or interested in engaging with.
That’s a lot of words for a post that essentially says nothing. Hopefully someone makes an AI version of Fragmaster’s nerd voice, so that insufferable post can be read out loud by it.
The funny thing is that all I said was NATO was bad because they tolerate fascist members and attacked a bunch of countries for no reason…which is all based on facts.
By the very same “by association, present or historical” “logic” you could say that the whole of NATO is Feminist (because some heads of state are openly Feminist women), Machist (some are pretty machist men), impeccably fair Democracies (take your pick), Communist (take your pick of members which were once Communist), Dictatorships with a Theocratic leaning (ahem, Turkey), Rich (take your pick), Poor (take your pick), an association of Small Nations (take your pick), an association of Large nations (take your pick), Social Democrat (take your pick), Socialist (the very Portugal you mention is governed by a party called the Socialist Party), Dead (most founding head of state are dead by now), Alive (lots of living heads of state), Anti-Nazi (lots of member states fough the Nazis), Pro-Nazi (some member states were Nazi), Mountainous (take your pick), Flat (ahem, The Netherlands) and so on.
This is because “by association” “arguments” just as the one which is the cornerstone of your comment are complete total jokes in logical terms - you can’t pick a trait of one member (worse, one it had long ago and doesn’t have anymore) and claim that “they’re all like that”.
Shit, that’s exactly the kind of “argument” the far-right newspapers in the UK use to demonize the poor: pick a single poor person who has abused the social security safety net and claim that “the poor” are all like that.
If you trully believe that line of yours, you’re either totally brainwashed or a moron (the latter very much in the medical sense).
”For association” was not the ”cornerstone” of my comment, although it’s pretty damning that the other founding nations would knowingly allow a fascist nation to join. NATO is an organization built on enforcing US hegemony. Fascist may not technically be the right term for that, but whatever. People call Russia fascist all the time even though that’s not really accurate either.
This time you’re conflating allowing an entity into a group with endorsing a specific characteristic of that entity.
Also you’re still keeping the whole “if they did so half a century ago, they approve of that kind of thing now” angle. That’s an “all present day Germans are Nazis” worldview.
It’s basically the guilt by association falacy but with “like” rather than “is”, i.e. NATO likes Feminist, Machist, pro-Nazi, anti-Nazi, Flat, Mountainous and so on countries because it let countries with such characteristic in.
The only situation were that wouldn’t be a falacy is if it was an organisation explicitly about that characteristic - i.e. an Association Of Democratic Nations - which let in a country with opposite characteristics, which is not the case here since NATO is a military alliance.
This time you’re conflating allowing an entity into a group with endorsing a specific characteristic of that entity.
It kind of is. Would they have allowed a communist nation to join? I highly doubt it. They could’ve easily said, ”no, you’re fascists, go away.” It’s not like getting fucking Portugal to join was essential.
Also you’re still keeping the whole “if they did so half a century ago, they approve of that kind of thing now” angle.
Hungary and Poland are fascist.
The only situation were that wouldn’t be a falacy is if it was an organisation explicitly about that characteristic - i.e. an Association Of Democratic Nations - which let in a country with opposite characteristics, which is not the case here since NATO is a military alliance.
I would agree with this, because at face value it’s true. Liberals are always calling NATO a group of civilized, European, democratic nations though, so you can’t have it both ways.
Well, that’s the thing: you can accuse some (maybe most) leaders of NATO countries of being hypocrites and I’ll agree with you on that.
In fact said leaders are equally hypocrite in exactly the same way also outside that NATO context: look at Macron’s authoritarianism in France imposing his will by decree and supporting the most violent thuggish police in all of Western Europe, or the long long history of the US invading countries for their oil whilst claiming it’s to “free their people” or Britain’s harping about Democracy whilst being “strong allies of Saudi Arabia” (and having one of the least democratic voting system in Europe).
(Mind you, so called “Communist” or ex-“Communist” [I’m sorry but no country still in the “Dictatorship Of The Proletariat” stage with an elite that controls it and self-proclaimed as representatives of the Proletariat has actually reached Communism as per Marx’s definition, so there is not a single genuine Communist nation in the World] are just as hypocrite: look at China’s treatment of Tibetans and support for the next door de-facto Kim Monarchy and at how Russia has been breaking world record after world record in hypocrisy of late)
However that wasn’t your original accusation: your original accusation was that NATO is a Fascist Organization.
Claiming an entire organisation is Fascist is worlds away from saying that some heads of state in it are hypocrites, including in the context of NATO.
Claims that NATO is Democratic are bullshit. Claims that it’s Fascist are even more bullshit.
The same Iraqis that no longer have to worry about Saddam doing stupid shit? Who can now elect their leaders again? They don’t think the US is the best but they sure aren’t in the same category as the Serbians.
Anti US people are so used to the US fucking up they forget that we actually do a good every now and then.
Are you seriously saying that the Iraq War was anything but a major fuckup by the US? Sure, they can elect their own leaders for a massively corrupt government, and many people are suffering because after the US invasion a lot of infrastructure was privatized in suspect deals. Iraq still can’t produce as much electricity as before the war. Listen to Blowback season one if you want some real info on the buildup and the war.
You’re right in that there are a few million Iraqis that don’t have to worry anymore. That might be because they’re dead, but semantics 😉
What about that last sentence makes you think that I think it was all flowers and sunshine?
At the end of the day they have a better government and if they hadn’t partnered with the American soldiers then we’d have fought AQ there for twenty years just like the Taliban in Afghanistan. I don’t have any concept that all Iraqis love the US. But the Iranian backed militias ain’t the majority opinion either. So yeah. There was a good thing done in there.
A country being in a dictatorship is an excluding factor for making good decisions. Plus, when Portugal left the dictatorship in 1974 it stayed and to this day remains in NATO.
And 1974, post-Revolution, Portugal, which was naturally very leftwing (it came pretty close to becoming a Communist dictatorship), could’ve and yet didn’t left.
It’s a ridiculously uniformed and childishly-simplist opinion (or just straightforward astroturfing paid by either the Putin or the CCP dictatorships) to claim that all NATO is Fascist by pointing out that more than half a century ago one of its founder (which by now has been a Democracy for almost half a century) was under the yolk of a Fascist Dictatorship hence all NATO was and is Fascist.
It’s funny how “guilt by association” and “the present is the same as the past” are core argument techniques of autoritarian lapdogs on both the Left and the Right.
“Being a Democracy” is not a significant military criteria.
It’s you who are comming up with your own “selection criteria” which you then claim NATO is supposed to follow (even though the criteria you made up at times go against NATO’s very clearly and firmly stated aims), and then arguing that they don’t follow your criteria hence are whatever you feel like to label those who don’t strictly follow criteria you decided they’re suppose to follow.
That fantastic and circular line of thinking is all you, and quite unrelated to the real world.
NATO has nothing to do with that. Not unless Turkey asks for an Article 5 conference. Talk about the specific countries sure but NATO has one purpose. It is a military defense pact.
Depending on what app you are using. I can select a post that comes from a community on an instance, and I can pick to either block the OP or the Community.
People outside the west have different views on a military organisation led by colonialists who have a track record of invading and destroying the world? How can this be!
Young Tibetan boys were regularly taken from their peasant families and brought into the monasteries to be trained as monks. Once there, they were bonded for life. Tashì-Tsering, a monk, reports that it was common for peasant children to be sexually mistreated in the monasteries. He himself was a victim of repeated rape, beginning at age nine - Melvyn Goldstein, William Siebenschuh, and Tashì-Tsering, The Struggle for Modern Tibet: The Autobiography of Tashì-Tsering (Armonk, N.Y.: M.E. Sharpe, 1997). Gelder and Gelder, The Timely Rain, 110.
The Tibetan serfs were something more than superstitious victims, blind to their own oppression. As we have seen, some ran away; others openly resisted, sometimes suffering dire consequences. In feudal Tibet, torture and mutilation–including eye gouging, the pulling out of tongues, hamstringing, and amputation–were favored punishments inflicted upon thieves, and runaway or resistant serfs. Journeying through Tibet in the 1960s, Stuart and Roma Gelder interviewed a former serf, Tsereh Wang Tuei, who had stolen two sheep belonging to a monastery. For this he had both his eyes gouged out and his hand mutilated beyond use. He explains that he no longer is a Buddhist: “When a holy lama told them to blind me I thought there was no good in religion.” - Gelder and Gelder, The Timely Rain, 113.
Whatever wrongs and new oppressions introduced by the Chinese after 1959, they did abolish slavery and the Tibetan serfdom system of unpaid labor. They eliminated the many crushing taxes, started work projects, and greatly reduced unemployment and beggary. They established secular schools, thereby breaking the educational monopoly of the monasteries. And they constructed running water and electrical systems in Lhasa. - Greene, A Curtain of Ignorance, 248 and passim; and Grunfeld, The Making of Modern Tibet, passim.
Heinrich Harrer (later revealed to have been a sergeant in Hitler’s SS) wrote a bestseller about his experiences in Tibet that was made into a popular Hollywood movie. He reported that the Tibetans who resisted the Chinese “were predominantly nobles, semi-nobles and lamas; they were punished by being made to perform the lowliest tasks, such as laboring on roads and bridges. They were further humiliated by being made to clean up the city before the tourists arrived.” They also had to live in a camp originally reserved for beggars and vagrants–all of which Harrer treats as sure evidence of the dreadful nature of the Chinese occupation - Harrer, Return to Tibet, 54.
American Internet MLs when someone defends colonization by criticizing the prior systems of the colonized people: "Let colonized people dedcide their own fate! >:( "
American Internet MLs when someone criticizes China’s colonization of Tibet: “[5000 characters criticizing prior systems in Tibet]”
I just want some consistency. Why is it liberation when China does it to Tibet but colonization when America does it to Afghanistan/South America/everywhere else? Fuck em both bro
Also have you ever noticed that criticisms of Tibet’s former systems always rely on the secondary source of The Timely Rain, an account written by foreign travelers in Tibet? (Or, as MLs might call someone who travels to China today to do this, “colonizers”?) Why is that perspective okay with you, enough to justify China’s actions?
Colonization is not just forcing culture or language. The material basis of colonization is imperialism i.e. forcing an unequal exchange between the colonized and the colonizers. There is no unequal exchange between Tibet and China as they are the same country. Capital and labour flows freely in and out, with the majority of the Tibetan population living outside Tibet. The majority of the Tibetan population has a positive opinion of the Chinese government, the same can’t be said of any colony. And on top of that the Tibetans are free to practice their culture(except the feudalism, pedophilia, and torture part of course).
NATO, a defensive alliance that’s been activated once ever? Whose historic motivator is right now invading a European country and constantly threatening several more?
and reddit meta twitter etc are all pro-american who defend America’s imperialism and war crimes.
soooo…
edit: imagine believing a platform many US representatives and other Western countries use is or was ever anti-american.
y’all forgive american crimes because china gives you a moral high ground while you’re unaware of the american red scare propaganda still happening today. fucking morons
You guys hit fast. It’s funny how the CCP argument against any kind of criticism is always to point out Western flaws like we don’t already do that enough! Grow a brain moron. That’s called whataboutism, did your state provided handbook provide any other strategies?
i just find it very cute that anything china related is big spooky.
screams satanic panic, red scare, lavender scare bs
i don’t live under china. why the fuck would i care what they do more than my own government??
my government imprisons more people than anyone in the world. my government is turning ever fascist and our police are only ever more militarized and useless for rhe common man. wages are struggling here. infrastructure is failing.
please tell me how i should care that some fuckin coders are associated with the Chinese government.
China might be more open and you might think they’re more dangerous but i know which country has a more dangerous intelligence apparatus that absolutely has overthrown countries and left plenty in chaos.
I don’t give a shit about criticisms of America, why do you people always default to whataboutism. I can criticise america all day. The bottom line is that there are plenty of really bad things about China that a whole Lemmy instance worth of people are desperately trying to deny and explain away!
You completely abandonded your original argument and then now suddenly claim that “it doesn’t matter”.
It is quite interesting how your MO aligns perfectly with Sartre’s description of the MO of antisemites:
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
What I’m curious about is why being pro Marxism-lenin for some reason in you people’s minds necessarily translates to defending state atrocities no matter what?
And how have you read Twitter and Reddit and concluded that they’re overwhelmingly “pro American”? You must be the first person in the history of the Twitter sphere that’s interpreted the modern liberal movement in that way lmao
I mean, general Twitter is at this point just because the majority of people still on there are conservative idiots. But that's not really representative of any group outside of Twitter.
youre pearl clutching over someone’s upbringing/political leanings /who fuckin knows why they support that.
this person is involved with Lemmy, do you know how small lemmy is compared to basically anything? reddit, Twitter, ford f150 owners, Netflix subscribers.
there are people who are all sorts of political positions in any one of those listed above.
does that truly affect your day to day life? fuck no
this boohoo about these chinese ties are for pearl clutching pussies foh with your bullshit
And this is the kind of strawman tankies always end up resorting to when being criticised for their support of authoritarian regimes.
No, criticism of China in no way means automatic support for the US, and the fact that you seem unaware of that shows everything about the foundation your beliefs are build upon.
eat ass ive seen this same thing brought up several times now. some admin or coders political crap is irrelevant especially when you consider everything else at play its fucking stupid.
I love how you’re here expecting to be taken seriously, but you actually can’t present an argument without lacing it with profanities and insults.
Of course someone so rage-filled is playing the whataboutism card so hard and repetitively. Why does anyone care what you think? You can’t even string together two sentences without devolving into spitting bile at people who simply disagree with you.
There are plenty of reasons to be anti-china. Pointing those reasons out doesn’t imply a stance toward America either way. Any assumption is projection on your part.
lol fuck off. I’m from Philly, I’m a line cook. This is my language if bad words make you unable to see a point or hear information tossed your way, that’s your problem sister.
the thing is the amount of times i have heard this same silly irrelevant point brought up makes me think its smear at this point. so fuck china but lemmy should probably be more critical of the west especially with meta and twitter definitely making moves to discourage people from leaving
and if calling you a stupid itty bitty titty pussy baby makes that hard for you to hear cry about it?
imagine actually thinking bad words indicate anger
If you can’t learn how to talk to people, you’ll spend your days shouting into a void and wondering why people don’t listen.
I’m not saying I’m offended, I’m saying that you’re never going to change a single mind by prefacing your point with slurs and insults. You’re arguing like a child and making enemies before they even have a chance to hear what you’re saying.
Personally, I don’t care. You’ve already lost any chance you’ve had of changing my mind. This argument ended before it started because any point you’re going to try to make is laced with the insinuation that I’m a stupid asshole.
If your goal isn’t to change people’s minds, more power to you I guess. But you don’t exactly command respect by slinging curses like a 14 year old who just discovered the word “pussy” on the internet.
Now, if you don’t want to take my constructive criticism for what it is, that’s your problem. Please do insult me 10 more times, and then find out by my lack of response how much I care.
fuck off idiot i live in America that government is more of a threat to me. handing financial collapse after financial collapse over to banks so citizens can foot the bill while melting away rights and allowing infrastructure to degrade.
y’all do not see anything china does america absolutely does the exact same shit. i live in america so they are worse. the bully on my block is worse than the boogeyman y’all keep crying about
this discussion is not about fucking genocide my god.
this is pearl clutching over someone’s political bullshit. these people’s stance do nothing, they mean nothing.
america is literally still enslaving black people through the prison system stemming from a crack epidemic they themselves forced upon the black community. why the fuck do i heae more about these shits political stances than actual issues happening in English speaking, western countries?
America IS making a lot of mistakes and im more in danger from the American government than the Chinese government and truthfully at this point more of the world is at threat of America than from China.
also the fact y’all think the chinese government abd the American government are at odds and never work together is very funny. the intelligence agencies across the world are bros my friend
my belief is i live in America and so why do i care what the chinese government does so much when my own government is worse to me and for the people around me.
i don’t have to defend shit. america is a bigger threat to my existence than china simple as.
i live under one government, that one is the bigger threat to me. i also know that government illegally bombs countries, abuses pow, imprisons it’s citizens illegally and runs a dangerous intelligence apparatus
funny how it starts to be unclear which country I’m talking about huh? like i said, i live under one of those governments. that one is the bigger threat to me.
hahahahahaha you know they sell your data and fb has given information that lead to people being arrested for absolutely goofy shit like drug possession and abortions
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