The last time they sanctioned Israelis it was like 4 individuals and they walked it back almost immediately. This shit only exists for the headline and will disappear until some reply guy throws it in a giant list of Biden’s “accomplishments” that they will post whenever someone suggests Biden isn’t doing shit to help Gaza.
Did you guys see the news? Prime Minister Netanyahu of Israel just announced that they are fully withdrawing out of Palestine, and doing whatever they need to do to create peace with the Palestinian people because some kids at Colombia were protesting! It worked guys!
Idiots. You gave up literally all you’re leverage for the chance to just speak to the board that merely advises the president on investments in 6 months time, when most people will have forgotten this and you won’t have the nation-wide momentum? And you didn’t even get charges dropped?
Absolutely fucking braindead. Like you just wasted ALL the effort of every student involved in this to do Absolutely nothing.
You know, you’re welcome to disagree on tactics, but I must ask you to show a bit of respect.
These protestors put themselves in danger. They made sacrifices for a cause you care about. Time may prove their tactics to have been in error, but they are not “braindead” “idiots” who accomplished “absolutely nothing”.
They know their situation better than you. They put their bodies and futures on the table, and they alone get to decide what trades they want to make. You are welcome to your opinion on what tactics others should use, and you are welcome to make your choice about what to do when it’s your ass on the front lines. But I don’t think you have any business talking big shit about people who are out there carrying the heavy loads.
I… I would love to see this as a compromise and start of mutual understanding, but the 6 month delay before the matter is even put through vote -if the case is even deemed “valid”- is nothing but lip service all the while the students protesting a pretty fucking obvious genocide are tagged and their most basic demanding action for consideration is criminalized, whatever the disciplinary action be.
To be in the very least open to compromise, the university would pardon the unapproved encampment considering it an urgent act in the face of mass human life loss. The consideration to even prosecute someone for demanding a reasonable hearing, which you accept, is blatant ill-will.
Besides, in these 6 months Israel would already be profiting a hell lot over new occupied land, sunning and tanning over dead bodies of thousands of children. This shit is even worse than the U.S. military setting up a damn prefabricated floating dock in 2 months.
Just a stick with carrot aroma, instead of the regular stick.
Even saying all that, hoping all the experience proves wrong this time and this sets off meaningful actions sooner or later.
No, they don’t deserve any respect for this. They are cowards, just like all the people that lost morale and broke when we were kettled at the BLM protest I attended in 2020. Nothing meaningful will come of this. They should have held out until meaningful action had already been achieved instead of agreeing to some dog and pony show in October with no amnesty for the protesters.
That’s a concern I share, but I think I’m the immediate moment, the activists have forced the university to break down a very significant barrier: their demands are legitimized by this. It becomes harder for other schools to justify a crackdown. And if this gets repeated, we move on to the next chapter of this story: university hearings across the country.
The goal is to change what is possible and put pressure on Israel and it’s material bankers. A large number of hearings does that. Crackdowns don’t really hurt the war effort or the profits of the military industrial tech complex.
It’s going to require a lot more pressure, but if this is not winning this particular battle, I’m not sure what that looks like.
Fordham also said they would allow the students to make their case to the CFO and the Board of Trustees, and the students(correctly) refused to take it as the school still hasn’t even called for a cease-fire. How can a plan to divest from Israel be taken seriously when they won’t even call for an end to Israel’s genocide?
I’ve been through exactly this situation when my university refused to negotitate with unionized faculty and drove the faculty to go on strike. The students tried to hold the board accountable for the absolute shitstorm they unleashed by 10+ years of gross mismanagement leading to this strike, but they had them get off the picket line and instead present their demands and concerns at a board meeting- where the board then ignored everything students said, told them “this isn’t your place to be speaking”, kicked them out, and went on for the last 4 additional years doing whatever the fuck they want.
Trust me, this tells other colleges nothing more than “let them talk so they shut up and get off the news”. That’s all any of them want. Board of Trustees are there to enrich themselves and do not exist to serve students.
The university did not agree to drop charges against forty students for rule violations, but the charged students themselves voted to accept the agreement under the belief that the overall offer was worth their own sacrifices.
Not including amnesty as a prerequisite is wildly irresponsible. What leverage do they have now? The board can simply say “no”, and send the cops in to arrest anyone who tries to restart the protest.
This isn’t negotiating, this is the students unilaterally giving up everything in exchange for… The ability to ask again, but quietly and in a circumstances where there is no consequences for saying no?
Yeah this was a pretty weak outcome. Im not sure they were enough of a crowd to keep the camp up for much longer and against police, but the result is basically worthless :/
Then they’ll have a situation no better than Columbia. The deal is we won’t protest if you divest. If either party reneges on that deal we go back to where we were before the deal. That’s the consequence of saying “no”.
100%. That said, if divestment happened today, withholding Brown’s share wouldn’t be enough to get Netanyahu to stop bombarding Gaza. This is about principle, trust, and politics more so than ongoing support at this point.
Its true that the witholding of a couple bucks coming from brown university wouldnt do anything directly by itself. However it would still be a big political statement that would make for a decent political wakeup call, if coupled with dozens of other universities and entities doing the same.
So while this one protest by itself is not a huge loss, what it stands for is peoples willingness to watch people die, doing nothing until after its too late.
I would amend that to say that this is about the future and eventual end of the occupation. I think it’s more material than you describe, but it’s a slow process.
What are you talking about? The occupation includes the West Bank and East Jerusalem. It predated Hamas, and continues – brutally – in regions in which Hamas doesn’t operate.
While the war in Gaza draws attention, folks in the West Bank have had homes firebombed with children inside and watched lynch mobs run whole towns off their land with military escorts. And that doesn’t even get into how Palestinian citizens of Israel are treated inside Israel. They’re legal citizens, but live with curtailed rights under a literal second-class of citizenship in a police state. They get disappeared, raped, and killed in prisons without charges over social media posts criticizing the government. What the hell does that have to do with Hamas?
We need to acknowledge that all these people are living under a military apartheid system, and demand negotiations for the formation of a democratic one-state solution. We already live in a one-state reality, just without civil rights for half the population.
The school’s deal is that the board will say no to the students and then the school will be prepared to put down any further protests without issue.
If the school intended to meet the students demands and divest, they wouldn’t need to charge 40 of them and get time to prepare to silence a future protest since there wouldn’t be a future protest.
The school’s ceasefire requirements are as serious as Israel’s “you give up the hostages and disarm, then we maaay consider not resuming the genocide after 2 weeks” peace offers
If the Palestinians show anything, no justice, no peace comes to mind. Say Brown does this assuming the fire is still there, people won’t stay silent for long. If a party chooses the path of the authoritarian they need to carry a pretty big stick. And even then, as Israel keeps showing, it doesn’t work.
Also, if you follow some links in the article, Israeli divestment has been an big, ongoing movement at Brown. This isn’t a flash in the pan. It’s a big step forward along what has already been a long and brutal road.
It’s not going away. And I truly believe that these students will win.
Well, this is Brown we're talking about. The students probably got too high and just accepted whatever deal was thrown at them without thinking about it.
They just need to be sure to let them know that this is a 10 day cease-protest trial period and that after that 10 days is up they will be moving the protest to the front lawns of the board of trustees.
Naturally when people called her out for being wrong she quickly set up a strawman to keep herself from having to admit any ignorance or fault. What a stupid hill she has chosen to die on, she could have been universally beloved if she just kept her shitty views to herself.
Weird. I feel kind of ambivalent, but not dysphoric or anything. Like I could just as easily have been born into a different body and felt no worse off.
I went through a bi panic in college and did a bunch of thought experiments with myself, mainly because I want getting action from either gender to try and test that out.
I think it’s important she’s called out. Her works are deep in the hearts of 3 generations and her shitty takes need to be addressed so those fans don’t make the same choices.
Just like Bill Cosby, its important for everyone to know how much a skeezebag he is because he shaped the lives of so many people
I just saw a teacher dunk on a kid in a tiktok video because he couldn’t explain why/how JK Rowling is a terf. Only for it to end with “I guess I was wrong, maybe she isn’t bad for the Trans community” in no part of that video did the teacher let his own beliefs be challenged or allow the kid to research to support his own position.
Ok, fellas: the intention of the author is inaccessible, the intention of the work can be interpreted, her public persona is that of a transphobe who always finds new lows to fall to in her brigade. You can still read HP and recognize that she is a shitty person.
I gotta say, I’m dealing with cognitive dissonance right now. I remember having bookmarked her Harvard commencement speech and listening to it from time to time, admiring the principles and standing up for the good of all people. I felt someone who wrote those books would HAVE to have a keen understanding of right from wrong and fighting the good fight.
So these recent years with her position on this have been confusing and sad for me. I hope she grows and learns from this.
In her mind she IS fighting for “right vs wrong”. She’s just REALLY fucking wrong about which side is “right”. One of the biggest things I’ve learned in life is that EVERYONE thinks that they’re the hero. That they’re doing good and the “others” are the bad guys. Rowling is a piece of a shit but she THINKS she’s the good guy and that’s the most dangerous part of all.
I disagree. I have felt like crap many times when I did what I consider the wrong thing. She knows what she is doing which pretty much only leaves sociopath or sadistic. Either way time to stop apologizing for her.
No one is apologizing for her. You felt like crap when you did something wrong because you realized it was wrong. Good people make mistakes and learn from them. People should be like you. She thinks she’s doing right and is a pig headed bigot. People should not be like her.
How did you determine that? Not trying to be snarky and I think it is important to give everyone the assumption of good faith (once) but I really don’t see any effort on her part that confirms this.
She hasnt even done the fake non-apology celebrity thing where she pays a charity and says she has to learn more. she has repeatedly doubled down.
I’m heavily confused by this. If she thought she was doing wrong she’d do the whole apology tour. Which she hasn’t, as you said. Your two paragraphs don’t play well with each other. She has exactly doubled down, which means she thinks she’s right so I have no idea what point you’re trying to argue.
I do something wrong, I know it’s wrong. Someone calls me out on it.
Yeah you are right = lose face admit that I wasnt being a good person.
No, I am right = don’t lose face and say it enough no longer feel guilty. Because now you get to feel like you are the real victim here. And a victim can never be wrong.
This is why you keep getting these well liked rich fucks bitch about how much harm has been done to them by being cancelled. That woman quite literally has a net worth equal to what I will earn if I worked for over 10,000 years. And yet she is the victim in this? Hell I bet every single trans person combined net worth in the UK isn’t equal to her own.
She knows she is wrong but she thinks if she keeps saying 2 + 2 = 5 she will win.
Yes, that’s…that’s what I’m saying lol. Which is why your argumentative nature of the post confused me. And still does. Well, sorta. She DOESNT know she’s wrong because she 100% believes she’s right and everyone else are the “bad guys”. That’s my whole point. She DOESNT GET that she’s wrong. It’s everyone ELSE who is wrong.
It’s weird to me because I don’t view her in the same way I do, say, Republicans or Trump or Bannon or Miller or Putin, etc. For all intents she is a bleeding-heart leftist who vehemently opposes the narrative of the right’s fearmongering in respect to most other issues. If she was just another greedy sociopathic republican-type then I wouldn’t be the least-bit surprised.
So I’m not convinced she’s a psychopath sociopath on par with the aforementioned; from what I can tell I do think she’s deeply confused and has some personal trauma that feeds a puritannical belief in feminism.
If she was a leftist, Harry wouldn’t have become a cop. Hermione wouldn’t have been ridiculed about SPEW until she gave up. And so on.
Unless she is the most pessimistic leftist who can’t even dream of a world where things change for the better when she creates that world all by her own.
What gate-keeping philosophy suggests all leftists must oppose cops – did I not get the memo? I didn’t realize she’s a Thatcher plant because Harry went to work for the Ministry and overhaul it for a place of good lol.
In a capitalist society, cops are mostly busy with protecting rich people. I don’t think a material analysis of what cops are and do will result in anything that redeems the institution as it is now.
Hot take but I think that probably over-generalizes the role of police and is particularly centered specifically around American cop culture and not, say, European or Scandinavian ones.
Thus I remain unconvinced that this is what they are destined to do. If good cops exist, then it’s a matter of altering the system and model to promote good instead of bad seeds no differently than paying teachers better, or giving nurses more training.
That’s not how it works. Not in America and not here in Germany. Good cops only exist until one of their comrades fucks up, then they’re bullied out of their job unless they cover for them.
Trans-exclusionary radical feminists (TERFs) are a thing. I’m not sure why but it is. There are many. From what I’ve seen it’s mainly women who are SO heavily misandrist and hateful of men they think any trans woman is still a man and therefore out to rape and kill them by design, but I haven’t looked that deep into the bigotry.
On your link there, I’m sorry to say the author is making a very silly argument. It boils down to ‘if you see a specific race in this racist caricature then you’re the real racist’. This would only be true if racist caricatures were a new thing never seen before. It’s akin to saying ‘oh i didn’t mean black people when i screamed the n- word. You’re the racist for thinking the n- word refers to black people’.
That’s an extreme example but you see my point that there’s a history that’s being ignored.
I disagree. The Potter goblins are diminutive, hooknosed, saurian creatures, with creepy long fingers and crafty natures. They have exceptional financial skills and stop at nothing to acquire or protect money and precious objects. It is antisemitic that anyone would encounter such a character and think: “Aha, a Jew!”
No, John Jon Stewart looked at the Harry Potter goblins and saw an offensive Jewish caricature. As an ethnically Jewish trans woman I agree with him. Rowling’s goblins and her Holocaust denial are harmful. I’m a huge Harry Potter fan too, so I don’t begrudge anyone for enjoying her content or even paying for content. I of course appreciate when people avoid those things. Profits from her games, books and movies go to funding anti-trans causes which make her content harmful. All I ask is that when Rowling does something harmful, like Holocaust denial or fund anti-trans causes people agree that what she is doing and her content is harmful.
The author once again attracted attention after donating $97,000 to For Women Scotland. The funds are earmarked for a legal challenge set to be heard in the UK Supreme Court. The objective of the lawsuit is to redefine the word “woman” such that it applies exclusively to cisgender women. The proposed redefinition stands to harm transgender women who have undergone gender-affirming procedures. Rowling publicly supported her donation, stating: “You know how proud I am to know you. Thank you for all your hard work and tenacity. This truly is a historic case.”
LGBTQ+ activists are warning that redefining the word “woman” paves the way for discrimination and prejudice against transgender or non-binary individuals.
I do not think J.K. Rowling is anti-Semitic. I did not accuse her of being anti-Semitic. I do not think that the Harry Potter movies are anti-Semitic.
John Jon Stewart said the goblins are an offensive Jewish caricature. None of these statements contradict each other. The point is, no one looked at the goblins and thought they were Jews as the author of Please shut up about the Harry Potter Jew-goblins suggests. It is not antisemitic to point out that the goblins are collectively an offensive Jewish caricature. edit: typo, adl.org/spelling-antisemitism-vs-anti-semitism, typo, Jon not John
I didn’t say they were, but I do think it’s an important distinction because the entire purpose of highlighting this in context of J.K. Rowling is to accuse her of explicit antisemitism. Whereas Jon (not John) continued to write:
“tropes [like the goblins bankers] are so embedded in society that they’re basically invisible.”
This means, indeed, that two things can be true at the same time: Rowling subconsciously used a Jewish caricature (as did Tolkien before her), and (2) Rowling is not Antisemitic.
Many people – not you, necessarily – equate the two.
Perhaps; though that’s not a reflection of her – but as Stewart points out society as a whole and the power we give to racist stereotypical tropes in the first place – it’s a convenient target for those who are already looking to hate on her for other more substantive reasons.
On a separate note, do you not think it’s a stretch to lump her in with holocaust deniers this quickly? Isn’t it a little too soon to categorize her lack of understanding that the concept of trans or books being burned occurred under nazis versus those who deny millions were murdered in general? If anything, doesn’t that water-down the category of Holocaust Deniers?
Doesn’t anyone who actively tries to defend literal Nazis by saying “wait wait guys the Nazis weren’t THAT bad” thedailybeast.com/jk-rowling-adds-holocaust-denia… warrent like…an immediate “this fucker is insane” thing? I mean if you’re trying to defend someone who is trying to defend WW2 Nazis I think you’re in the wrong camp is all
I think there is a considerable logical leap if not an outright non-sequitur between being misinformed on nazi atrocities / history, and "defending nazis"
I don’t think we can strawman what Rowling did with, "Nazis weren’t THAT bad."
I think it’s too early to put considerable weight on her intent or beliefs surrounding nazis on this singular tweet.
But yes, I do agree people who legitimately defend nazis are insane.
Categorically calling it holocaust denial to me diminishes the scale of damage caused by legitimate holocaust deniers.
I suspect there are many individuals who already hate Rowling personally for comments related to Trans rights are looking for things to an irrational degree.
That being said I don’t think I can add any more to this conversation that I haven’t already and so thank you for the discussion and oblige you with the final word.
Doesn’t she, as a public figure, whose tweets (xhits?) will reach millions, have more of an onus of responsibility on her to fact check herself? I do agree with you on the fact that she’s not ENTIRELLY denying the holocaust and to put her in the same camp as those who do DOES weaken what that means, 100% agreed on that. She’s not a holocaust denier, she just denies some specific things that happened in the holocaust. It’s still SUPER shitty and SUPER wrong but yes, agreed, she’s not going around spouting “it never happened!” shit. I just came into this conversation but I appreciate your input all the same
society as a whole and the power we give to racist stereotypical tropes in the first place
Ignoring racist stereotypes in fiction isn’t the solution. We should want to do better.
On a separate note, do you not think it’s a stretch to lump her in with holocaust deniers this quickly?
No. Holocaust denial is holocaust denial. It’s never too early to call it out.
Isn’t it a little too soon to categorize her lack of understanding that the concept of trans or books being burned occurred under nazis versus those who deny millions were murdered in general?
No. Valuable research was lost that could have benefited millions of people. Not to mention trans people were killed by the Nazis. The fact millions of Jews were killed does not diminish the harm in denying that other groups were targeted by the Nazis.
If anything, doesn’t that water-down the category of Holocaust Deniers?
Although Jews were the group who had the most causalities, the Holocaust affected many different groups of people. Denying any part of the Holocaust is harmful and calling that out in no way diminishes the seriousness of Holocaust denial.
I appreciate the sources and acknowledge everyone from Jews to Communists to Gypsies, LGBTQ, to the Handicapped and so forth were ostracized, discriminated upon, and murdered by the Nazis. What I note does not detract from that; merely to say that someone not recognizing what is frankly not a mainstream fact about the Holocaust does not make them a holocaust denier; it may make them holocaust illiterate. So I mean it’s good to be proactive with this stuff but it’s also important to give people the chance to take a step back and give people a way out instead of compelling them to become what you repeatedly label them as. Reading too much into a single tweet when there – to my knowledge – hasn’t been a response or clarification from Rowling – is jumping the gun. I admire the confidence in your convictions but I don’t agree with your conclusions.
Despite your argument’s insistence to the contrary nowhere in my argument do I accuse Rowling of being anything. Whether or not Rowling is ignorant is irrelevant. Her actions are what matter. When presented with new information about the Holocaust her response was not to become more informed, but to deny the information. That is Holocaust denial and it is harmful. edit: typos
I will wait until she dies so she can’t profit from it. I know it’s a drop in the bucket but it’s my drop.
She had a choice. Her Twatter account could have just been happy stuff about Harry Potter. She repeatedly choose to create this situation. So fuck her she isn’t getting a cent from me.
That’s kind of an individual thing. Like, I get it, I get what you’re saying, but, when I think about the books (which I used to love), I just didn’t think of them fondly anymore; I can’t think of any of those characters without that irritation and disappointment coming up.
I was super excited about having my kids read those books – and my oldest started the series, but then needed a break to mature a little before hitting book…3 I think? Idr. And now I just don’t really care whether they read them. (If they do choose to read them on their own, I won’t tell them about JKR until after they’ve finished them.)
However I have no problem setting aside the shittiness of Knut Hamsun or Henry Miller; I still really enjoy their books. Heidegger? Too shitty for me. Picasso: meh, he’s fine.
That’s My Hot Take: if it bothers you, acknowledge that, and don’t force yourself to be uncomfortable. But also don’t shame people for whom her toxicity is something they can set aside.
(As long as they are setting it aside and not enjoying the work because of her toxicity.)
That said: pirate her shit, you don’t need to give her money.
I can’t listen to many bands I used to listen because their members turned out to be really shitty people.
I mean, if I have to hone my skills at slap.bass in a rock context, Flea is my go-to choice, but Anthony Kiedis boasted about having sex with an underage girl and regularly dates girls 40 years younger than him, that soured the whole RHCP thing for me.
In short, my ethical and moral principles are worth more than aesthetic enjoyment.
Ethics are interesting because you can ignore them. It’s like, ethics exist within you regardless of whether you agree to them; if you don’t listen to that little voice, it gets easier and easier to ignore it. To put that in practical terms: murdering someone is pretty ethically difficult. Murdering a second time is less ethically difficult. It’s like we build a climate around ourselves; the more you listen to your ethical beliefs, the more repugnant the idea of ignoring them becomes.
That said, I’m not sure I’m on board with you on RHCP – but that’s maybe just me. I used to listen to them a lot in jr high (I’m old) when blood sugar sex magic had just come out. And while your opinion is totally valid, for me, like, I never thought he was much of an ethical role model. His lyrics are pretty misogynistic. (And, not great regardless, from a “objective artistic/poetic” perspective.) So like yeah he’s not a great person, but he never pretended to be, so to find out he isn’t doesn’t change much.
(As opposed to, say, Jowling Kowling Rowling, who used to talk about hating bigotry, but then turned out to be a super terrible bigot.)
Flea, on the other hand – I’ve never looked into him. I’m also a bassist and his influence on my bass education is so deep that I’m afraid to find out if he’s toxic lol. But he’s been in a band with Anthony Keidis for like 40 years, so, he’s probably not perfect.
(I’m not a slap or funk bassist, but what I learned from Flea was how to feel it. You can’t play Flea’s bass lines mechanically, they literally don’t sound correct; you have to feel the vibe, the groove has to move your fingers, not the time signature. That dude, ffs I hope he’s not an asshole, because he’s fucking incredible.)
Though IDK – after long careers together, from what I understand, people tend to see each other less.
For example, after the whole Me Too thing started, I heard an interview with Bob Weinstein, Harvey’s brother, the two of them started Miramax together and were basically partners. But he knew his brother was a piece of shit, and, at that time a few years ago, hadn’t actually spoken to him in “many years.” He didn’t dwell on the topic, he just said that, basically, and his tone was like, obviously disgusted, but he didn’t want to spend the time talking about that, so he didn’t.
He wasn’t exactly going to snitch his own brother into prison, and that’s asking a bit too much imo, but it shows ethical strength to not slip into that same kind of toxicity, especially when it’s so close to you, and probably so easy.
Sure but used book stores are great, you can find some weird shit sometimes. Serisously I once found an old ass copy of dianetics in the sci-fi section, old lady running the place found it great that I got her little joke.
It’s also possible for someone to be a shitty person and a shitty author. There are tons of discussions on just how badly written HP is and that would be true even if she suddenly stopped being a horrible person.
Yeah, 1-4 are fun “monster of the week” kids book with worldbuilding that falls apart if you look at it too much. 5-7 have “George Lucas” syndrome - editors couldn’t say “no” anymore. The Horcruxes and the Deathly Hallows were clearly last minute ass pulls.
Idk I read a lot of similar quality YA when I was a child. I don’t get the obsession.
I hate her much as the next guy but the books are really good don’t act like they are not there is a reason why they are famous. If you don’t like her but still likes her work just pirate it .
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