I just learned this the hard way. I just got laid off and rejected the severance check because in order to get it, we had to sign a thing that said we waived our right to ever sue them for anything
I feel like ToS changes should require the user to accept before being enforceable with no right to suspend the user’s account if they don’t and when it comes to data it should only apply to data the user shared after the changes…
I wish they could compete with apple on quality, but it’s just not there.
They value engineering too much and design too little. It results in not only shittily-designed products, but also shittily-engineered ones too because they over-engineer everything.
They are opposing it so much it is drawing scrutiny on the extremely aggressively antitrust chair Biden appointed, Lina Khan, a person who literally wrote a lauded economics paper about how amazon became a monopoly using anticompetitive practices and illegal tactics.
Get pissed at the government if you like, but at least get your facts straight first.
My article is from 3 days ago. When was your source in Wikipedia from?
EDIT: From your own source
The FTC formally withdrew its challenge to the acquisition on July 20, 2023, though they have announced their intent to refile at a later time.[78] The FTC reopened its case against the merger on September 27, 2023, though was unable to block the merger from occurring.[79]
So they withdrew their challenge in July and stated they would refile. They did refile in September, and are currently appealing a decision to allow the merger by a judge as of Dec 6th.
The FTC has been actively fighting this merger every step of the way and has yet to stop.
It’s not fully “closed,” no matter what Microsoft claims. Its been approved by a lower court judge, and the FTC are currently appealing that judgement.
Fighting the merger in court 3 separate times sure is different than “letting Microsoft buy Activision” though, isn’t it?
The FTC tried & failed. They’ll most likely fail here too. It’s tough for courts to rule against what the FTC sees as unfair competition when even the judges are likely Amazon Prime & Big 3 ecosystem subscribers.
I’m not a lawyer or legal expert but my layman’s understanding is the laws on antitrust are a 100 years old. Most of these companies skirt them “technically”. There is thing about proving consumer harm and some of these, in the short term, are arguable better for consumers. Likewise proving an actual monopoly with old time definitions is hard because in a lot of cases there is technically competition.
Let me end by saying, I think it’s horse she and they are plenty anti competitive practices out there, but the FTC is fighting with a hand tied behind their back with the laws in place.
I can’t imagine any law that would preclude the status quo, as Microsoft doesn’t own a controlling stake in OpenAI anyway. It sounds like the FTC is picking its targets based on market cap only.
Nothing matters anymore. Lie on your resume. Don’t shovel the snow. Be absolutely naked. Throw your careers to the wind. Bathe in the pale moonlight amongst the corpses of oligarchs.
Appointing Lina Khan to head the FTC is one of the only good things Biden has done while in office.
However, the FTC has been defanged and neutered by the courts and Congress. To say nothing of the full court press the media, especially mainstream business publications, have engaged in to attack her and limit her influence and reduce her political capital.
So unlike most of Biden’s top level appointments, I actually don’t doubt her intentions, or her goals, but I also don’t hold out much hope as to what she’ll be able to accomplish, though not for any lack of effort on her part.
You know… in all my time upon this earth, I cannot look back and think of a single instance where I thought: “Gosh, this advertisement which has inserted itself in between me and the desired content has actually made me want to go purchase that product.”
I have a couple times but every single time it turned out the ad was blatantly misleading or simply lying. Fuck ads and every person involved in that industry.
Ads are effective, sadly. And why so much money is poured into them. I believe there are a few effects at play but the direct, see and ad and want to go buy it now is only one ofbhem that mostly only affects some people, or a lot of people occasionally.
I think a bigger effect is familiarity. You are far more likely to pick a product you are familiar with or have seen before over something younjave never heard of. Even if you have only ever seen it on advets and completely forgotten that you have ever seen ads for it. So even if you don’t think they work on you they likely do without you realizing, at least enough of the time on enough people that make them worth while running.
These subconscious effects are indeed the most effective ways for an ad to work. However, if an ad is obnoxious enough for you to remember, it can get you to actively avoid the advertised product as well.
Just because I have heard of NordVPN doesn’t mean I’ll necessarily use it (in fact I use arch mullvad, btw.)
Let’s see some numbers that ads work. You can’t just calculate how life would be without ads, but I wonder what would happen if ad expenses for all companies would be capped somehow. When cigarette companies were severely limited in terms of advertising they saved a ton of money. Of course people already knew their brands, but still.
I think ad space sellers wildly overestimate the effectiveness of ads and google has made it far worse with targeted ads. People have gotten used to saying things like “ads work” and “brand recognition” but does anyone know the numbers? Or is this just repeating some phrases you’ve heard?
I don’t know the numbers myself, but I’m quite skeptical.
Except how is ROI estimated? I can imagine it being done both intelligently and stupidly and so I’m curious how well it is actually done.
Part of what I’m sceptical about is that it seems like a practice driven either by a lot of FOMO and vague thinking or a system where it only makes sense to run ads because everyone else is.
This is all measured and not really estimated. If you think that any substantial chunk of that 484Billion is being done ‘stupidly’ then you’re just making presumptuous incorrect guesses without knowing much about the industry.
Revenue (sales) - Investment (total costs) = ROI There is ROAS which similiar: Revenue - Ad Spend = ROAS You can measure things in more detail like CPA (cost per acquisition) to work out how much ad spend you have per sale, again this is a measurement not an estimation.
Where previously there was mass advertisements to millions of people like TV or radio ads which were only affordable to large companies. Advertisers now can target the exact type of person they’re trying to market to for their niche which is a lot cheaper and so more accessible to smaller businesses. To me that makes business sense to do if I can optimise to the right ROI, and nothing to do with FOMO or vague thinking.
Unfortunately I’m genuinely curious. Honestly is a little disheartening though that the first piece of technical pushback has you bailing out. “Correlation is not causation” being stats 101 and all.
If you do have any more to say though I’d happily read it! If not …, all the best.
Just because I have heard of NordVPN doesn’t mean I’ll necessarily use it (in fact I use arch mullvad, btw.)
No it does not mean you will pick it. It means you are more likely to pick it. Given all else being equal you are vastly more likely to pick something familiar than something unfamiliar. And it all comes down to trends and statistics. The hope is that more people will go for your brand that leads to more sales then the cost of the marketing in the first place. You might not go for NordVPN for other reasons, but can you say that about every product you have been advertised to? If anything the more you know about a product the less advertising will affect you in the familiarity sense - these adverts are not so much meant for you as they are for people not familiar with VPNs at all.
But there are a lot of studies on the topic like this and this meta analysis that seem to conclude that advertising is effective. And there are a lot of studies on what various aspects of adverts make them more effective. I am yet to see any research that says adverts are ineffective overall, though I have not dug that deeply into it.
Good products are worth sharing to help shape future products. Grass roots only works if the product is worth using. Vote with your wallet to help shape future products. While the previously poster can be viewed as an “ad”, the post is same as a next door neighbor bringing it up. Mullvad doesn’t do affiliate marketing or pay influencers.
I used to use Mullvad but now I use a different service, but especially like to support open source products.
Companies have tested this. A DIY chain ran an ad and people complained it was annoying, so they stopped running it. Their sales started to decline. Started running the ad again and sales went up.
Probably you’re not the target audience and just collateral damage in the ad war, but for the population in general they work.
A DIY chain is the ad I’m most unlikely to see. The only ads I see are usually the same 5 auto makers advertising the same bland cars on a cliff or in a desert. The vast vast majority of ads don’t work and waste everyone’s time for a small bump in sales and recognition. Especially since the variety of the US market is dominated by so few billion dollar businesses. Like Walmart still advertises. Walmart. The company that owns like 40% of grocery sales in the US and can’t pay their workers a living wage. They’ll gladly stop you from watching your shows though because their marketing department needs a salary.
The fact that companies pour millions into ads means it works for them. Don’t assume that just because you and I (and probably most users on here) aren’t susceptible, it doesn’t mean the majority of the population aren’t too.
There used to be a business joke you’d hear in the ‘60s, often attributed to John Wanamaker, a pioneer in marketing:
“Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is, I don’t know which half!”
The joke highlights the dilemma many businesses face in evaluating the effectiveness of their advertising spend. It’s remained relevant in the advertising and marketing industries, reflecting the challenges in measuring the impact of advertising efforts.
I think ad space sellers wildly overestimate the effectiveness of ads and google has made it far worse with targeted ads.
Companies are not just pouring money down the drain and paying zero attention to what comes back up. If that were true the advertising industry would be dead instead of the insane massive monolith that it actually is.
Yeah, I like to think I’m immune to advertising until I see one that makes me think “damn, I haven’t had Burger Restaurant in a while.” The worst part is that I’m fully cognizant of what’s happening, and yet I still want some and it’ll make me think about it for a while afterward, simply because I’m familiar with the food and how it (usually) tastes.
But, joke’s on you, Burger Restaurant! I’m fucking broke, son! Now we’re BOTH having our time wasted
Well, things affecting you unconsciously should be plain illegal. Though that’s how ads are supposed to work since like 50s and earlier, and I think I remember a Colombo episode where what you said is mentioned.
Have you tried to find a principle by which one can filter out this particular thing (advertising namely)? Like the “25th cadre” etc. Before saying it’s unenforceable and terrible to make illegal.
There are regulations about what you can and can’t put into edible products. There are regulations about what you can and can’t use as fuel. There are regulations on materials used in construction, so that they wouldn’t be as toxic as 50 years ago, on paints, on glue and what not.
Though, of course, there’s a solution from another direction which is fundamentally better, simply abolishing trademark laws. But that’d be kinda revolutionary and highly unlikely to happen anytime soon.
Sorry, I was more talking about this in particular:
Well, things affecting you unconsciously should be plain illegal
It is far too general a statement to be enforceable. There are things you can better enforce that focus on the negative effects of marketing, but things affecting you unconsciously is to vague and affects both positive and negative behaviours.
There are regulations about what you can and can’t put into edible products. There are regulations about what you can and can’t use as fuel. There are regulations on materials used in construction, so that they wouldn’t be as toxic as 50 years ago, on paints, on glue and what not.
These are all specific things though, not general broad reaching unenforceable statements. Which I agree with, there is a lot you can do with regulation that prevents bad behaviours of corporations, but these are generally specific things that are trying to solve some actual problem. And in this case you need to specific what things you are trying to prevent.
Even for just adverts, trying to ban all adverts that affect you unconsciously would be a ban on all adverts and marketing. Is that reasonable? I would not say so. It would be better to go after specific things like the regulations around advertising cigarettes. Or more relevant to today, maybe something around the shear amount of information advertising agency collect on you, IMO that is one of the bigger problems with them these days. Or the shear number of them that you get shoved into every aspect. Or putting adverts in products that you have already paid for. Those would be far more reasonable things that you could enforce.
Even for just adverts, trying to ban all adverts that affect you unconsciously would be a ban on all adverts and marketing. Is that reasonable? I would not say so.
I would. Never in my life has an advert made me buy anything I need.
When you need something, you go and find it. And when it finds you, then it needs you and not vice versa.
When the process is “I identify a need, I look for something matching characteristics I need and then I purchase it”, the results are better than it is “I look at something and suddenly have an urge to buy it most likely formed by many adverts seen, heard etc”, in the latter situation I usually realize that I didn’t need the thing at all.
Thus adverts belong to expositions and catalogues and lists you go and find, and not anywhere else.
Depends on your legal preferences, of course. Most of my life I’m a libertarian, so naturally against banning anything consensual, but also against trademark protection, and abolishing trademark protection would reduce the usefulness of ads.
Or more relevant to today, maybe something around the shear amount of information advertising agency collect on you, IMO that is one of the bigger problems with them these days.
Can’t fight that anyway.
Or the shear number of them that you get shoved into every aspect.
I have a better idea - you can be required to watch through ads to get to the page\video\etc you’ve come for, but don’t get stuffed with them in the middle, that becomes illegal. Like those license agreements for software which nobody reads.
IRL that would be - no big unavoidable ads on billboards, but you can come to something like a gazette stand and look through brochures.
The point is that if you look at an advert, you do that consciously, with intention to do just that.
That’s even explainable to geriatric lawmakers.
Or putting adverts in products that you have already paid for.
Yes, that’s a good idea and an already popular one.
That’s not really how they work, or that is not the only way. Their point is to put the logo, slogans, company etc into your memory. This way when you’re shopping for something specific, then the brand pops out to you because you’ve seen it and it gives you a sense of familiarity and hence, higher trust.
Ads work. These companies wouldn’t spend millions in them otherwise. Consumer behavior is among the most studied psychological phenomenoms in the world. If you show an ad to one person it’s near impossible to tell if it had an effect or not but show it to a thousand people and you’ll see it.
Yeah I feel mostly this way too, but the data is solid, ads are effective. Even on me, very rarely. And I’m the type of person who doesn’t ever click ads, out of spite. Even if it’s exactly what I was already looking to actively buy. But every now and then they give me an idea that I pop open a new tab, research, and then buy.
You are not the target market. Advertising is a massive industry for good reason. It works. I know because I own a business and brand name recognition is everything. When people buy things they most often don’t do any research, they just think of the first thing that comes to their head and that’s usually what they buy. Or the first thing that comes up in their product search.
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