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Chickenstalker , to til in TIL a Canadian from Greece took an American version of an Italian dish and added tropical fruit to it and called it a Hawaiian pizza.

Pizza is American. They perfected it and deserves the full credit. Italians can cry with their hands.

RegalPotoo ,
@RegalPotoo@lemmy.world avatar

Describing American pizza and Italian pizza as being the same thing is imperialism

lvxferre ,
@lvxferre@mander.xyz avatar

<span style="color:#323232;">Aeneas and his chiefs,
</span><span style="color:#323232;">with fair Iulus, under spreading boughs
</span><span style="color:#323232;">of one great tree made resting-place, and set
</span><span style="color:#323232;">the banquet on. Thin loaves of altar-bread
</span><span style="color:#323232;">along the sward to bear their meats were laid
</span><span style="color:#323232;">(such was the will of Jove), and wilding fruits
</span><span style="color:#323232;">rose heaping high, with Ceres' gift below.
</span><span style="color:#323232;">Soon, all things else devoured, their hunger turned
</span><span style="color:#323232;">to taste the scanty bread, which they attacked
</span><span style="color:#323232;">with tooth and nail audacious, and consumed
</span><span style="color:#323232;">both round and square of that predestined leaven.
</span><span style="color:#323232;">“Look, how we eat our tables even!” cried
</span><span style="color:#323232;">Iulus, in a jest.
</span>

This is from a translation of the Aeneid, published in 19 BCE.

https://allthatsinteresting.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/pompeii-pizza-close.jpg

and this is from Pompeii, buried in 79 CE.

Pizza is at the very least Roman, if not older. (Potentially Greek.)

And before someone mentions tomatoes, pizza bianca is a thing.

Stovetop ,

Admittedly it doesn’t take much creative thinking to come up with the idea of “bread with stuff on it”.

It’d be pretty different from what we think of as pizza today though with no tomatoes or mozzarella.

lvxferre ,
@lvxferre@mander.xyz avatar

That’s why I mentioned pizza bianca / white pizza - it doesn’t include passata or tomato sauce, but it’s still pizza.

Cheese being added to the pizza is a bit trickier, but I’m tempted to say that the Romans already did this; they were big fans of cheese, and the white stuff in the afresco looks a lot like sheep cheese for me. And, well, cheese melting over hot bread is kind of obvious. Plus there are claims that mozzarella itself backtracks to those times, although it was originally made with sheep milk.

Stovetop ,

Likely not used on pizza though, I’d imagine. But a cheese like feta, which would have been more common, would probably still taste great.

lvxferre ,
@lvxferre@mander.xyz avatar

I could also picture them spreading some moretum (crushed cheese with herbs and olive oil, it’s rather tasty) over the dough. The white thing in the afresco is certainly not moretum as the later is green, but frankly that doesn’t sound too far from what I’ve seen people adding to pizza bianca.

kindenough , to til in TIL a Canadian from Greece took an American version of an Italian dish and added tropical fruit to it and called it a Hawaiian pizza.
@kindenough@kbin.social avatar

A fruit native to Brazil. We call it "pizza hawaii" in the Netherlands and it's tasty. Ananas, ham and cheese, perfection I say, pizza puritan snobs be damned.

nokturne213 ,

I personally cannot stand pineapple on my pizza (despite wanting to like it). And really do not care what other people put on their food.

BarrierWithAshes ,
@BarrierWithAshes@kbin.social avatar

I feel one day people will learn to appreciate Brazilian pizza. We're not in that time yet though.

lvxferre ,
@lvxferre@mander.xyz avatar

I’m not too sure if pineapples are native from the lands currently controlled by Brazil, Paraguay, or both. The Amerindians farmed them quite a bit, so they spread even to to a chunk of North America; and the native range of a relative hints me that the genus originated further west.

That’s just a guess though - the point is that nobody knows for sure.

metaStatic , to til in TIL a Canadian from Greece took an American version of an Italian dish and added tropical fruit to it and called it a Hawaiian pizza.
FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

THAT’S NOT A REAL PIZZA!

lvxferre ,
@lvxferre@mander.xyz avatar

The idea reminds me Roman (as in the city, not the empire) pizza al taglio.

I wonder how they’re baking the dough. A 100m large oven? Roll in, roll out? Multiple separated chunks? Baking it rolled, then unrolling it?

jawa21 ,

A conveyor would make the most sense.

lvxferre , to til in TIL a Canadian from Greece took an American version of an Italian dish and added tropical fruit to it and called it a Hawaiian pizza.
@lvxferre@mander.xyz avatar

It gets even messier.

Modern tomato sauce used in pizza is a variation of the sauce in southern Italy. People were cultivating tomatoes there after they were introduced by Spain, that controlled both that region and the North American lands formerly controlled by the Aztec city-States (nowadays by Mexico).

Where are tomatoes from? South America. Yup. The lands are today Peru’s and/or Ecuador’s. Likely domesticated way before Cuzco/Inca expanded over the region. In the meantime, the pineapples being put over the pizza are from another region, the Paraná basin (currently controlled by Brazil and Paraguay).

Then you got the dough. Wheat was domesticated somewhere in the Fertile Crescent; I think that the lands currently controlled by Iraq should be a safe bet. In special, Eastern Rome (aka Byzantium) used to control Naples too, spreading πίτα/pita (a type of flat bread) again into the region. (I say “again” because the Aeneid already talks about pizza, in Republican times.)

Cows (for the cheese) were domesticated a bit further to the west, probably what’s today controlled by Syria… well, at least one of the times, because you can almost hear haunting zebu moos from what’s controlled now by Pakistan. (I believe that most domestic breeds should be a cross between both, with varied amounts of zebu x taurus. And perhaps a third stock from the Maghreb.)

humorlessrepost , to til in TIL a Canadian from Greece took an American version of an Italian dish and added tropical fruit to it and called it a Hawaiian pizza.

And some countries put canned corn on pizza and call it “American style” because Americans love corn.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I was once in a Filipino grocery in L.A. and they had corn and cheese ice cream. I don’t mean they had corn ice cream and they had cheese ice cream, I mean they had an ice cream flavor called “corn and cheese.”

cheesymoonshadow ,
@cheesymoonshadow@lemmings.world avatar

Filipino here, grew up with the stuff and never realized how weird it could be perceived as until now. It’s more like a cheesy vanilla flavor with bits of corn.

We also have a creamy vanilla sort of popsicle with red mung beans in it that I suspect we got from the Chinese.

ultranaut ,

Cheese + vanilla + corn?!

BakerBagel ,

I put a little vanilla in my corn pudding for holidays. I could also throw cheese in there if i was so inclined.

ultranaut ,

I guess I can see that, I’ve just never experienced the combo. Cheese and ice cream together seems like a challenge to pull off.

cheesymoonshadow ,
@cheesymoonshadow@lemmings.world avatar

By vanilla I just mean like the basic white soft-serve ice cream.

Duranie ,

“cheesy vanilla flavor with bits of corn”

That is seriously not helping lol. I will concede though that it could be one of those things better tasting than you would imagine. Like the first time I tried the off the cob version of elote (Mexican Street corn.) A cup of hot corn with mayo, cheese, and chili powder? I thought it sounded bizarre at the time but holy shit - I ate the hell out of it and wanted more lol.

cheesymoonshadow ,
@cheesymoonshadow@lemmings.world avatar

Combining different tastes and textures is a huge thing in Filipino cuisine. In the ice cream, the sweetness of the ice cream and corn is complemented (and arguably enhanced) by the saltiness of the cheese. The corn also provides a little crunch. I think it’s that same combo in elote that makes it so good.

One of my favorite snacks from my childhood that I still enjoy to this day is green mango with bagoong (fermented shrimp paste). The green mango is crunchy and sour while the bagoong is salty with a good dose of umami.

jopepa ,

I’d try it

CptEnder ,

Me loading my .45 1911

“Shame”

ArcaneSlime ,

Them, producing insane quantities of 1911s in huts in the jungle with stolen electricity: “Kahiya”

mateomaui , to til in TIL a Canadian from Greece took an American version of an Italian dish and added tropical fruit to it and called it a Hawaiian pizza.
BarrierWithAshes , to til in TIL a Canadian from Greece took an American version of an Italian dish and added tropical fruit to it and called it a Hawaiian pizza.
@BarrierWithAshes@kbin.social avatar

This is why I can never hate on hawaiian pizza. It is a true-born Canadian pizza, birthed from these frozen wastes.

Can_you_change_your_username , to til in TIL a Canadian from Greece took an American version of an Italian dish and added tropical fruit to it and called it a Hawaiian pizza.

And then the Hawaiians replaced the ham with spam.

Neato ,
@Neato@ttrpg.network avatar

Honesty that’d probably be better. Ham is so bland on pizza; it can’t compete with the sauce. I always do pineapple and pepperoni. The spice from the pepperoni cuts through the sweetness really nicely.

xploit ,

That’s why you need some nice smoked ham or honey roast or similar…agree though, most places just use most bland crap they can find cheap

owenfromcanada ,
@owenfromcanada@lemmy.world avatar

Nah, swap the ham for some bacon. It can stand up to the sauce and the pineapple. And still technically ham.

scottywh ,

Bacon, pineapple, and jalapeno is what’s up

ArcaneSlime ,

Add some jalaps to that and you have my favorite pizza.

mateomaui ,

I admit that I haven’t tried the hawaiian pizza at every joint around here, but the ones I have tried or noticed still use ham.

PugJesus , to world in 100 years ago, Vladimir Lenin died
@PugJesus@kbin.social avatar

Now, I don't mean to be negative, but as this happened 100 years ago, can it really be said to be... news?

aleq ,
@aleq@lemmy.world avatar

News isn’t that he died, it’s that he did so 100 years ago.

sachamato , to til in TIL a Canadian from Greece took an American version of an Italian dish and added tropical fruit to it and called it a Hawaiian pizza.

I go to Italy often just to eat real Italian food. I understand that for Italians, the hawainana pizza is an aberration, like many other things if not cooked as they traditionally do. And I respect it, because it’s a key part of their culture. Still, I have a right to eat and like whatever I want, so I also expect respect on that sense. Some people will do this and some others won’t. I think it’s a personal choice to decide respecting others opinions.

supercriticalcheese ,

They don’t have to serve you what you want if it’s not on the menu, they can try to accommodate if they really want but that’s about it.

But if you don’t have the ingredients they cannot really do that can they.

Sagifurius ,

I get that shit ALL the time. I have 34 wing flavours, a number of them address the sweet n savoury/sour thing I personally detest. I don’t carry the disgusting bulk sweet n sour sugar sauce common to this region and continually get people staring at the 34 flavours and and ask “do you have honey mustard or sweet n sour”? No. I don’t. That’s not what I’m doing here, if I had that, it would be listed. Literally every other place has that, I’m fucking trying to impart some taste to the region no matter how miniscule.

Guntrigger ,

I enjoy that this rant started out like we should all know that you have a wing restaurant.

Tristaniopsis ,

Traditional schmaditional. They never had tomatoes, peppers, potatoes, corn or a bunch of other things until Meso-America was ransacked.

masterspace ,

Discovering that tomatoes were new world fruit really torpedoed any chance of me respecting Italian traditions

Tristaniopsis ,

Well… a tradition’s gotta start sometime.

Look at that fucking Elf on the Fucking Shelf shit. It’s marketing tag on the box is (or was) “a tradition”.

Yeah. A tradition for ONE fucked up family who then cashed in HARD and forced their sick gaslighting on the gullible public. /rant

Pooptimist ,

They make pizza dulce with Nutella, so I can get my pizza with pineapple

gyrfalcon , to news in 100 years ago, Vladimir Lenin died
@gyrfalcon@beehaw.org avatar

Hi! This submission is not well suited for the World News community. Depending on the type of discussion you were going to have, it would probably be better suited for our Humanities and Cultures community or our Socialism community. I am going to remove the post here, but please consider resubmitting to one of those communities. Thanks!

baseless_discourse , to til in TIL a Canadian from Greece took an American version of an Italian dish and added tropical fruit to it and called it a Hawaiian pizza.

AAAAND it is inspired by north American Chinese food.

Inspired in part by his experience preparing Chinese dishes which commonly mix sweet and savory flavours,

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaiian_pizza

spittingimage , to til in TIL a Canadian from Greece took an American version of an Italian dish and added tropical fruit to it and called it a Hawaiian pizza.
@spittingimage@lemmy.world avatar

Just think, if you open your mind and let other cultures be your inspiration, you too could invent something as reviled and divisive as Hawaiian pizza.

Nobody ,

Multiculturalism was a mistake.

neo2478 , to til in TIL a Canadian from Greece took an American version of an Italian dish and added tropical fruit to it and called it a Hawaiian pizza.

Whats a Canadian from Greece? Was the guy Greek living in Canada? Doesn’t that just make him Greek? Or was it a person born in Canada with Greek ancestry? That would not make him from Greece.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

He was born in Greece and became a Canadian citizen. That made him a Canadian from Greece.

neo2478 ,

Now, were I a smarter man, I would have realized that. Thanks for the correction.

GladiusB ,
@GladiusB@lemmy.world avatar

I dunno everything is Greek to me…

Sagifurius , (edited ) to til in TIL a Canadian from Greece took an American version of an Italian dish and added tropical fruit to it and called it a Hawaiian pizza.

The Germans seem to think they invented it. Order it in Sweden, and it’ll come with bananas.

Guntrigger ,

Don’t forget the curry. The bananas always must come with curry, but the cardamom goes in the pastries.

Retrograde ,
@Retrograde@lemmy.world avatar

nausea intensifies

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