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blog.cloudflare.com

Moonrise2473 , to technology in Cloudflare's recent blog regarding polyfill shows that Cloudflare never authorized Polyfill to use their name in their product

It’s always a danger when a malicious company purchases a famous open source project.

Like that israeli adware company that bought simple mobile tools

pineapplelover ,

Reminds me, I should donate to Fossify

Moonrise2473 ,

I donated to the Tibor guy and I feel betrayed for how he managed the situation

Cube6392 ,

I feel for the guy. Had health issues and needed money fast. I kinda don’t blame him. Like I get its disappointing and I also won’t blame people being mad at him, but I’m more mad at the overall system of how things get funding

Moonrise2473 ,

I’d also have accepted the money if I were him but at least I would have wrote a blog post explaining the situation, that now the apps are dead and controlled by a bad actor and need to get uninstalled as soon as possible.

Not almost denying it while continuing to get money on his Patreon from unaware users

Potatos_are_not_friends , to technology in Cloudflare's recent blog regarding polyfill shows that Cloudflare never authorized Polyfill to use their name in their product

Whenever I see those “All the companies that use us” banner, I shrug.

If I was a scammer, why wouldn’t I include a dozen companies?

avidamoeba , to technology in Cloudflare's recent blog regarding polyfill shows that Cloudflare never authorized Polyfill to use their name in their product
@avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

Nice. Unfortunately this won’t tackle the mountains of sites that use bundlers.

valaramech ,
@valaramech@fedia.io avatar

Direct linking via a specific CDN was the problem. This is solved by bundlers, not caused by it.

The polyfill.js is a popular open source library to support older browsers. 100K+ sites embed it using the cdn.polyfill.io domain. ... However, in February this year, a Chinese company bought the domain and the Github account. Since then, this domain was caught injecting malware on mobile devices via any site that embeds cdn.polyfill.io.

avidamoeba ,
@avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

I read the story and specifically the bit about the Github account. Isn’t this the Polyfill lib’s Github account? Because if that’s the case, how would a bundler solve the issue? The new owners could modify the original source, then the CICD jobs would happily publish that to registries and from there down into the bundles. Is it a different Github account they’re talking about?

i_am_not_a_robot ,

Code pulled from GitHub or NPM can be audited and it behaves consistently after it has been copied. If the code has a high reputation and gets incorporated into bundles, the code in the bundles doesn’t change. If the project becomes malicious, only recently created bundles are affected. This code is pulled from polyfill.io every time somebody visits the page and recently polyfill.io has been hijacked to sometimes send malicious code instead. Websites that have been up for years can be affected by this.

avidamoeba ,
@avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

Perfect. This is consistent with what I was thinking and that Cloudflare’s changes won’t fix any recent bundles that might include malicious code.

i_am_not_a_robot ,

Built bundles are not affected. The service is supposed to figure out which polyfills are required by a particular browser and serve different scripts. Because it’s serving different scripts, the scripts cannot be bundled or secured using SRI. That would defeat the purpose of the service.

lazynooblet , to technology in Thanksgiving 2023 security incident
@lazynooblet@lazysoci.al avatar

They was a really good read

eager_eagle , to technology in Thanksgiving 2023 security incident
@eager_eagle@lemmy.world avatar

tl;dr of the damage

no Cloudflare customer data or systems were impacted by this event. Because of our access controls, firewall rules, and use of hard security keys enforced using our own Zero Trust tools, the threat actor’s ability to move laterally was limited. […] No services were implicated, and no changes were made to our global network systems or configuration.

The only production systems the threat actor could access using the stolen credentials was our Atlassian environment. Analyzing the wiki pages they accessed, bug database issues, and source code repositories, it appears they were looking for information about the architecture, security, and management of our global network; no doubt with an eye on gaining a deeper foothold.

smileyhead , to technology in Cloudflare is free of CAPTCHAs; Turnstile is free for everyone

Don’t like it.

I use VPNs, Tor and nonpopular browsers and I need to have a way to proof I am not a robot other than staying in the crowd.

makeasnek , to technology in Cloudflare is free of CAPTCHAs; Turnstile is free for everyone
@makeasnek@lemmy.ml avatar

Cloudflare MITMs a good portion of internet traffic. They can even see inside SSL tunnels for most websites you visit. It’s an absolute privacy nightmare.

stifle867 , to technology in Cloudflare is free of CAPTCHAs; Turnstile is free for everyone

How does any of this fit into the reality that you can pay $1 per 1000 captchas for a real, actual human to solve them? It seems like so much effort is put into this cat&mouse narrative with bot makers, ignoring the reality that sometimes labour is actually much cheaper.

LufyCZ ,

It’s about creating at least a small barrier for not-very motivated people.

If a script kiddie wants to create a couple accounts and spam a bit, paying for and integrating such a service might just discourage them from actually taking the time.

Just a small cost if you’re dedicated though, for sure

hedgehog ,

Given that it gets rid of captchas, it neatly evades that issue.

Their goal wasn’t to improve bot blocking, though, but to deter real people less and bots just as much, and it seems they’ve achieved that.

nucleative , to technology in Cloudflare is free of CAPTCHAs; Turnstile is free for everyone

Getting sick of these strange new hCaptchas. Click the thing that’s only appearing once? Click I this exact order 😱🥺😅😂🤞. Click the stadiums from SimCity?!? Hopefully websites switch to turnstile fast.

kadu ,
@kadu@lemmy.world avatar

I fail hCaptcha a surprising number of times, and I’m sure it’s actually doing that on purpose so we help it label more images for AI training.

It’s like “select all flowers” and then you have 7 AI generated horses, and one AI generated flower. I pick the flower and “try again!” with a new set of images.

nucleative ,

Yeah. Its better than reCaptcha - do I click those 3 pixels of the traffic signal it not!?! - but it’s still an obstacle that dimenishes the experience.

elouboub ,
@elouboub@kbin.social avatar

Wow, people will complain about literally anything. "I hate Google's Recaptcha" --> hCaptcha. "I hate hCaptcha" --> turnstile. Inevitably it'll be "I hate turnstile".

nucleative ,

Yes. Obstacles on the pathway to what I’m clicking in to are obnoxious. Hopefully turnstile isn’t an obstacle.

Jaydeep , to technology in Cloudflare is free of CAPTCHAs; Turnstile is free for everyone

I absolutely hate it, in tachiyomi, it just keeps reloading the page instead of giving me a captcha to solve…

BloodSlut ,

Same, I cant get to or log in to multiple sites with Firefox because of this.

It does seem to be able to work if I use a private window, though. So Im not exactly sure what’s causing the issue. Maybe something to do with cookies? But ive messed around with that and havent been able to get anywhere.

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@kbin.social avatar

You could check if it's the fault of an extension by launching Firefox in safe mode (shift-click the Firefox icon when launching).

BloodSlut ,

Thats a good idea. Ive tried doing it with certain other extensions (content blockers, user agents, script and tracker blockers/modifiers, etc.) disabled but something completely unrelated may be interfering.

ayaya , to technology in Cloudflare is free of CAPTCHAs; Turnstile is free for everyone
@ayaya@lemdro.id avatar

I’m not actually sure it’s particularly effective at stopping bots, considering how easy it is to spin up a docker container that can bypass it. Ironically FlareSolverr wasn’t able to solve CAPTCHA so now with them gone it works even better.

Windex007 ,

Yeah, I’m pretty skeptical of the premise… it’s looking for browser “abnormalities”? I mean… there wasn’t a strong motivation to correct those abnormalities for bots when it didn’t matter. Now that it does, I just suspect they’ll correct those abnormalities.

Just because the abnormalities were present in the past doesn’t imply that it’s intrinsically more difficult to emulate browser behaviour than it is to defeat captchas. There just hasn’t been a reason to do so up until now.

ryannathans ,

Ok so bypass it

verysoft , (edited )

I mean it's always going to be an uphill battle, but I'd rather it stop some bots and be easier for me than them making me do a million captchas, that dont even work half the time, that still don't stop many bots.

DogMuffins ,

I’m curious how easy it would be to bypass with significant volume though?

Like a few requests might get through but it would get fairly easy to detect dozens of requests from the same bot i think?

It’s also doing some “light” proof of work - this would be a PITA if you were trying a bot net attack or something.

httpjames ,
@httpjames@sh.itjust.works avatar

Nothing can stop 100% of bots. The goal with captchas like Turnstile is to use a significant portion of your resources to the point it’s expensive and slow to perform an attack.

Turnstile runs many background checks on your browser, so headless browsers automatically become futile.

JavaScript PoW challenges are performed that take up multiple seconds of execution time, memory and CPU. This alone is a deterrent because sequential attacks become extremely long to execute.

Concurrent attacks are still unfeasible because Turnstile ups the difficulty if it detects something is up, and receiving requests from thousands of botnet IPs is bound to trip an alarm.

jsdz , to technology in Cloudflare is free of CAPTCHAs; Turnstile is free for everyone

I just tested my favourite cloudflare-blocked site and it still hangs on “verifying the security of your connection” in my figerprinting-resistant browser profile.

library_napper ,
@library_napper@monyet.cc avatar

Yeah I get infinite loops on half the Internet. It’s infuriating and should be illegal for them to deny my as a customer just because they can’t track me

redcalcium , to technology in Cloudflare is free of CAPTCHAs; Turnstile is free for everyone

Second, we find that a few privacy-focused users often ask their browsers to go beyond standard practices to preserve their anonymity. This includes changing their user-agent (something bots will do to evade detection as well), and preventing third-party scripts from executing entirely. Issues caused by this behavior can now be displayed clearly in a Turnstile widget, so those users can immediately understand the issue and make a conscientious choice about whether they want to allow their browser to pass a challenge.

Those of you that browse the internet with JS disabled (e.g. using NoScript), the time of reckoning has finally come. A huge swatch of internet will no longer be accessible without enabling javascript.

Cheradenine ,

Mull with RethinkDNS on mobile, ‘cool, so the internet just became less accessible’.

red ,
sik0fewl ,

Ya, I feel like disabling Javascript should not be "beyond standard practice".

red ,

As a web developer who’s worked in the industry for 16 years, every snowflake requiring me to work harder to support their “choices” is just an annoyance. I get wanting to reduce tracking etc, but in all honesty, the 0.0X% of users running tons of blockers and JS off are in reality just easier to track, in comparison to hiding in the mass of regular users who might be running an ad blocker (or nothing).

As long as your browser is making requests, you’ll never be invisible.

The change needs to come from regulation level imho.

LufyCZ ,

Couldn’t agree more.

It’s great you can do it and you’re free to, but not using javascript often means revamping the whole codebase and making everything 5x more complicated.

Which just won’t happen to make 6 users happy

red ,

Amen. We do provide text versions though, but a few JS-blocking users have complained about having a barebones experience.

DarkenLM ,

but a few JS-blocking users have complained about having a barebones experience.

Well no shit, have they ever wondered why the language was created in the first place?

red ,

It’s a god damn funny though.

iso , to technology in Cloudflare is free of CAPTCHAs; Turnstile is free for everyone
@iso@lemy.lol avatar

But how it works? I don’t see any explanation on the post nor CF web site. It looks magical.

30mag ,

For Turnstile, the actual act of checking a box isn’t important, it’s the background data we’re analyzing while the box is checked that matters. We find and stop bots by running a series of in-browser tests, checking browser characteristics, native browser APIs, and asking the browser to pass lightweight tests (ex: proof-of-work tests, proof-of-space tests) to prove that it’s an actual browser.

nyakojiru ,
@nyakojiru@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

But…. Lots of bots are made with RPAs …. With actual browsers , interface emulating human interaction. Sounds like a response to proton.me/blog/proton-captcha

flumph ,
@flumph@programming.dev avatar

Turnstile was announced over a year ago.

30mag ,

I don’t know shit about it.

iso ,
@iso@lemy.lol avatar

Thank you. I didn’t see this part. I guess its kind of like their privacy pass stuff.

ksynwa , to technology in Cloudflare is free of CAPTCHAs; Turnstile is free for everyone
@ksynwa@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Bots definitely can check a box, and they can even mimic the erratic path of human mouse movement

Damn I didn’t know that was being tracked too

Maven ,
@Maven@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Have you ever clicked a captcha and it’s just checked itself off for you?

That’s because your page use behaviour looked human enough it wasn’t worth the robot test

ksynwa ,
@ksynwa@lemmygrad.ml avatar

It has happened on rare occasions. Most of the time, no. But I didn’t think they had access to the mouse cursor trajectory.

stealthnerd ,

Yes your browser tracks all of this, movement, hover, clicks etc. It’s how pages are able to respond to various mouse gestures.

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