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sab

@[email protected]

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sab , to youshouldknow in YSK: Your Lemmy activities (e.g. downvotes) are far from private

This completely goes against the entire philosophy of the Fediverse

Care to elaborate on that? As far as I know this is built in to all the ActivityPub applications.

sab , (edited ) to youshouldknow in YSK: Your Lemmy activities (e.g. downvotes) are far from private

Also, there’s way too much trust in instances.

I say there’s too much care about votes. Because someone can just give themselves infinite votes from their private instance, it makes it all the more worthless.

Instances should have their own settings on what instances are allowed to keep a local copy.

There’s a setting for that, it’s called the allowed list - configures who are allowed to federate with you. Beyond that - if it’s out, it’s out.

sab , to youshouldknow in YSK: Your Lemmy activities (e.g. downvotes) are far from private

For transparency, this is what a Like payload looks like. The first part is just context for the activitiypub protocol and is pretty much the same for each message. The second part contains the actual data of the message, and the most personal detail in it is the url of your own profile, and the url of the post/comment you like:

<pre style="background-color:#ffffff;">
<span style="color:#323232;">{
</span><span style="color:#323232;">	</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#183691;">"@context"</span><span style="color:#323232;">: ["https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams", "https://w3id.org/security/v1",
</span><span style="color:#323232;">	{
</span><span style="color:#323232;">		</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#183691;">"lemmy"</span><span style="color:#323232;">: "https://join-lemmy.org/ns#",
</span><span style="color:#323232;">		</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#183691;">"litepub"</span><span style="color:#323232;">: "http://litepub.social/ns#",
</span><span style="color:#323232;">		</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#183691;">"pt"</span><span style="color:#323232;">: "https://joinpeertube.org/ns#",
</span><span style="color:#323232;">		</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#183691;">"sc"</span><span style="color:#323232;">: "http://schema.org/",
</span><span style="color:#323232;">		</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#183691;">"ChatMessage"</span><span style="color:#323232;">: "litepub:ChatMessage",
</span><span style="color:#323232;">		</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#183691;">"commentsEnabled"</span><span style="color:#323232;">: "pt:commentsEnabled",
</span><span style="color:#323232;">		</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#183691;">"sensitive"</span><span style="color:#323232;">: "as:sensitive",
</span><span style="color:#323232;">		</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#183691;">"matrixUserId"</span><span style="color:#323232;">: "lemmy:matrixUserId",
</span><span style="color:#323232;">		</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#183691;">"postingRestrictedToMods"</span><span style="color:#323232;">: "lemmy:postingRestrictedToMods",
</span><span style="color:#323232;">		</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#183691;">"removeData"</span><span style="color:#323232;">: "lemmy:removeData",
</span><span style="color:#323232;">		</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#183691;">"stickied"</span><span style="color:#323232;">: "lemmy:stickied",
</span><span style="color:#323232;">		</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#183691;">"moderators"</span><span style="color:#323232;">:
</span><span style="color:#323232;">		{
</span><span style="color:#323232;">			</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#183691;">"@type"</span><span style="color:#323232;">: "@id",
</span><span style="color:#323232;">			</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#183691;">"@id"</span><span style="color:#323232;">: "lemmy:moderators"
</span><span style="color:#323232;">		},
</span><span style="color:#323232;">		</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#183691;">"expires"</span><span style="color:#323232;">: "as:endTime",
</span><span style="color:#323232;">		</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#183691;">"distinguished"</span><span style="color:#323232;">: "lemmy:distinguished",
</span><span style="color:#323232;">		</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#183691;">"language"</span><span style="color:#323232;">: "sc:inLanguage",
</span><span style="color:#323232;">		</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#183691;">"identifier"</span><span style="color:#323232;">: "sc:identifier"
</span><span style="color:#323232;">	}],
</span><span style="color:#323232;">	</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#183691;">"actor"</span><span style="color:#323232;">: "--URL OF THE USER PROFILE--",
</span><span style="color:#323232;">	</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#183691;">"object"</span><span style="color:#323232;">: "--URL OF THE POST OR COMMENT--",
</span><span style="color:#323232;">	</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#183691;">"type"</span><span style="color:#323232;">: "Like",
</span><span style="color:#323232;">	</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#183691;">"id"</span><span style="color:#323232;">: "-- URL TO THE INSTANCE THAT PASSED THE MESSAGE--",
</span><span style="color:#323232;">	</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#183691;">"audience"</span><span style="color:#323232;">: "-- URL TO THE COMMUNITY THE POST IS PART OF--"
</span><span style="color:#323232;">}
</span>
sab , to youshouldknow in YSK: Your Lemmy activities (e.g. downvotes) are far from private

I don’t think email is a good example because you’re in complete control of who you send an email to.

You can easily check which instances your server is federated with in the footer of your server. If any of those external servers have subscriptions to the community you’re posting in, they will receive an update, so it’s safe to assume it’s being sent to all of them.

sab , to selfhosted in if I selfhost, does that take any load of Lemmy?

Generally speaking, lemmy is much more cpu bound than it is bound by bandwidth - so the added bytes don’t matter that much. The example above was just for 1 community. Now imagine the user is subscribed to a dozen communities, but doesn’t even browse lemmy that day. That’s probably thousands of api calls made to keep his server on sync, and 0 requests saved.

Like the big instances have literally hundreds of thousands of workers running in order to get all the updates out. If one of those calls fails, it gets put back into the queue for retry.

OP asked if having his server added to the lemmiverse would alleviate the load “Like with torrent”. That is demonstrably not the case - it only adds more workload on the other servers, with a break even point that’s highly variable. Yes, your server will be nice and snappy, but the origin servers have to pay the price - death by a thousand papercuts synchronisation calls.

sab , to selfhosted in if I selfhost, does that take any load of Lemmy?

Yes. Once for every post, comment and vote.

So say you have your own personal instance, and you use that to follow community news on lemmy.world. If throughout the day that community receives 10 new topics, 50 comments and 100 upvotes, it would have to make 160 calls to your server.

So when you decide to read those 10 topics (if you even read all of them), you would then make roughly 10 api calls.

You would be saving those last mentioned 10 calls by using your own instance, but at the cost of 160 calls made throughout the day.

sab , to selfhosted in Suggestion for "relay" Lemmy instance for personal use?

My bad, I thought you meant the other crypto (as did everyone else, presumably). I know cryptography was first, but I think it’s safe to say that that abbreviation has been irrevocably tainted.

sab , to selfhosted in So how do I decommission a Lemmy instance properly?

I’m not sure when or if other servers will stop pushing, but did you unsubscribe from all communities before doing so?

Would be interesting to see if that would stop incoming traffic.

sab , to selfhosted in if I selfhost, does that take any load of Lemmy?

In effect, not really.

All the communities you’re subscribed to will now also have to push all their updates (posts, comments, upvotes) to your server, even when you’re not interacting with Lemmy.

As someone else mentioned, it would only be efficient once you have a decent (hard to pinpoint) amount of users on your server.

sab , to cat in is my bunny welcome here?

I’ll allow it.

sab , to selfhosted in Suggestion for "relay" Lemmy instance for personal use?

No down vote from me, but surely by now you know how people feel about crypto.

At any rate, I don’t think an immutable ledger is desirable for speech (what’s the point of moderation), perhaps more something like torrent would be preferable. And, as someone else mentioned, relay software already exists.

sab , to selfhosted in Suggestion for "relay" Lemmy instance for personal use?

I can say with full confidence that I have absolutely no idea.

I’ve heard this idea thrown around before, so I take no credit for it: One way to circumvent the issue would be to have actual relay nodes. As in: nodes that don’t hold contents or users themselves, but just “broadcast” incoming messages to several instances, so that the source instances don’t have to. This would of course have its own drawbacks and limitations, but it would alleviate the bottleneck.

I’m sure some kind of solution will be found though. Call me optimistic, but I think the lemmi/binniverse has a bright future ahead of it. I, for one, have burned my reddit bridges.

sab , to showerthoughts in We did it Lemmy!

That’s far worse! At least the lemmings reputation was caused by being chased off a cliff by Disney producers. A golum canonically has no free will.

sab , to selfhosted in Suggestion for "relay" Lemmy instance for personal use?

You definitely could, but it’s not really sustainable.

Worst case scenario: if everybody does this, and there’s 50.000 subscribers on a certain community, then that community will have to update 50.000 other servers whenever one user leaves a single message or vote.

Sure, your own server wouldn’t have a hard time, but it every popular server (with lots of subscribers) would. It would either take a long time for you to receive their updates, or you wouldn’t get them at all.

The best thing you can do, is join a medium size server: it won’t be as overloaded as a big server, and wouldn’t cause as much strain on the fediverse as a personal server.

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