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beef_curds , (edited )

Seeing liberals do nazi apologia in comment sections in 2023. This bodes well.

“Well ackshully, the Nazis are very nuanced… [goes into a wehraboo rant about the various nazi divisions]”

Edit: mods cleaned it up. Thanks mods. Still scary that’s going on.

blazeknave ,

I’m a Liberal. Fuck Nazis.

beef_curds , (edited )

Hell yeah! Thanks!

It’s just unnerving to see that even the people who invited him are apologizing and admitting it was a mistake, but online there are liberals running cover for a literal nazi.

These commenters don’t have to do that. It’s not even their L to take. They aren’t the ones who invited him. But yet, here they are so dug in they can’t admit a mistake that even those involved are admitting they fucked up.

It just makes me uncomfortable how unmoored some people’s ideology is.

blazeknave ,

Just saying, they’re not “liberals” if they’re Nazis. By definition liberals want representation and equity for all. (Even if we shoot ourselves in the foot to get it.)

rbesfe ,

Lots of people ITT not understanding the nuances of world war 2. Lots of Finns fought with the Nazis against Russia, doesn’t mean they supported the ideology.

realitista , (edited )
@realitista@lemmy.world avatar

So Zelenskyy’s crime here is not knowing the identity of every single member of the audience and every word the speaker will say? This sounds a lot like gotcha journalism to me.

Take a look at this video of the happening and tell me how exactly we get to pin the blame on Zelenskyy for this?

Armen12 ,

Ukraine is a Nazis wet dream, no matter how racist they are it just doesn’t matter. Nazis are getting away with saying horrible things about minorities these days thanks to this stupid conflict

Zippy ,

Definately unfortunate. Can’t even really blame any MPs to speak of. It does reflect on the person or MP that did not vet him properly and put forth for recognition in such a public way

As a side comment, you have to wonder about the soldier himself or his family that would have suggested he be recognized to begin. The government typically does not go looking for these individuals to dish out praise but usually they are made aware of someone thru a close family member or friend. Why would a family or the member himself want to be recognized for their service unless they are still proud of what that meant?

TheAnonymouseJoker ,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

Zelensky is a Nazi Zionist? Colour me shocked!

surprisedpikachu.jpg

sik0fewl ,

Certainly they mean against Nazis.

reads article

Oh what the fuck.

CanadaPlus ,

Jesus Fuck. I was expecting this was fake, but it’s not. Here’s the AP article, it’s image number 4 in the scroller thingy. Here’s that dude’s Wikipedia page.

It’s one thing when eastern Europe plays it fast and loose with that period of history, but I expect better from my own government.

Edit: It looks like they’ve already apologised.

Blursty ,
@Blursty@lemmygrad.ml avatar

The US never apologised did they?

Remember when they invited Nazis to Capitol Hill?

sik0fewl ,

Those were neo-Nazis, not Nazis.

polskilumalo ,
@polskilumalo@lemmygrad.ml avatar

And you imply there is a stark difference?

sik0fewl ,

Not at all. Only that there is a difference and the distinction is noteworthy when talking about actual WW2 Nazis.

ned4cyb ,

Zelensky had an Azov Brigade member aka Nazi scum to talk through video call in the Greek parliament early in the war, so that people would show compassion to a warrior and provide aid

Nakoichi ,
@Nakoichi@hexbear.net avatar

Didn’t just fight with Nazis. He was a member of the Waffen SS.

He literally was a Nazi.

KevonLooney ,

This shows how fucked up WW2 was. These guys were from Galicia in Poland.

When Poland was divided between Germany and the Soviet Union under the terms of the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact in 1939, the territory of eastern Galicia was annexed to Soviet Ukraine. In 1941 it was occupied by Germany.

So basically they had to choose between two imperialist powers who conspired to divide up their country.

There is no evidence of general war crimes. That’s why they were not prosecuted. Many peoples were forced by circumstances to fight alongside people they didn’t like.

Although the Waffen-SS as a whole was declared to be a criminal organization at the Nuremberg Trials, the Galician Division has not specifically been found guilty of any war crimes by any war tribunal or commission. However, numerous accusations of impropriety have been leveled at the division, and at particular members of the division, from a variety of sources. It is difficult to determine the extent of war criminality among members of the division.

en.wikipedia.org/…/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division…

gnuhaut ,

Many peoples were forced by circumstances to fight alongside people they didn’t like.

He volunteered to join the SS. Nobody was forced to join the fucking SS. Did you mean to say “really wanted to fight alongside”, and what’s your evidence for “people they didn’t like”?

Tarte , (edited )
@Tarte@kbin.social avatar

SS is not the same as Waffen-SS. The Waffen-SS again had foreign legions. These Waffen-SS foreign legions were volunteers at first, later a mixture of volunteers, voluntolds, conscripts and in the end pressured and/or forced conscripts.

I don’t know about the individual motives of the person in question. But the Waffen-SS foreign legions are too much of a mixed bag to generalize.

In Eastern Europe many joined the Waffen-SS foreign legions to fight against the occupation of their countries by the Soviets. Their values and goals didn’t necessarily align with those of the Nazis, except that they had a common enemy.

Edit: The Waffen-SS was part of the German war machine and they did commit plenty of war crimes. I was commenting to differentiate between two different criminal organizations here (SS/Waffen-SS) and to explain how the recruitment changed as the war went on. It was a mistake on my part to omit this, given the sensibility of the topic. Please do not take my comment as an attempt at whitewashing the numerous crimes of various Waffen-SS units.

gnuhaut ,

Ah you’re right, there were also conscripts in some Waffen-SS units. Looks like this guy volunteered though, as it says in the article:

A blog by an association of its veterans, called “Combatant News” in Ukrainian, includes an autobiographical entry by a Yaroslav Hunka that says he volunteered to join the division in 1943 and several photographs of him during the war. The captions say the pictures show Hunka during SS artillery training in Munich in December 1943 and in Neuhammer (now Świętoszów), Poland, the site of Himmler’s visit.

In posts to the blog dated 2011 and 2010, Hunka describes 1941 to 1943 as the happiest years of his life and compares the veterans of his unit, who were scattered across the world, to Jews.

I guess they couldn’t confirm that this is definitely that same Yaroslav Hunka, though that would be some coincidence. Not only did he volunteer, he loved it. And what even is that comparison? That doesn’t sound like a person who has learned anything.

Their values and goals didn’t necessarily align with those of the Nazis, other than they had a common enemy.

You call it “not necessarily aligned, other than”. I call it very much aligned. The difference in opinion can’t be that big or important if they’re willing to kill and die under Nazi orders.

Tarte , (edited )
@Tarte@kbin.social avatar

The difference in opinion can’t be that big or important if they’re willing to kill and die under Nazi orders.

That’s a valid point. They also did commit war crimes, including dozens of massacres. I am certainly not trying to whitewash the Waffen-SS foreign units. They are to blame for what they did, including those of them that were coerced or conscripted.

I was talking from a historical perspective and trying to provide some needed context about those organizations and why it’s incorrect to equate membership in a Waffen-SS foreign legion with membership in the SS. Both organizations are guilty of war crimes and atrocities. With the Waffen-SS it’s less certain if each and every member is guilty and to which degree. I cannot say much about Yaroslav Hunka, whose name I have heard for the first time here. From what is in the article, he sounds guilty as fuck.

I have also updated my above comment to clarify this.

Blursty ,
@Blursty@lemmygrad.ml avatar

why it’s incorrect to equate membership in a Waffen-SS foreign legion with membership in the SS. Both organizations are guilty of war crimes and atrocities.

I’m still not clear on what the significant difference is.

With the Waffen-SS it’s less certain if each and every member is guilty and to which degree.

Couldn’t you say this about literally any group of mass murderers? Why does this not apply to the SS?

Tarte , (edited )
@Tarte@kbin.social avatar

One was a military fighting unit including foreigners (but not limited to them, recruitment was very varied) that fought at the frontline, the other was mostly for internal „policing“ and holocaust organization (strictly volunteers and considered „elite“). Just because both are bad and share a similar name doesn’t mean you can use the names interchangeable.

Edit:

Why does this not apply to the SS?

Because they all volunteered and murder on an industrial scale was their purpose and official task. The Waffen-SA committed war crimes, too, but it was not their main purpose and on a wholly different scope.

I can muster some sympathies for i.e. a foreign prisoner of war that was conscripted into the Waffen-SS, or a foreigner who wanted to free his home and misguidedly sided with anyone who was willing to fight against Soviet occupation. I do not hold the same sympathies for Germans who applied as volunteers to join the regular SS because they really wanted to help exterminating Jews (and others) at home and in the occupied territories.

iridaniotter ,
@iridaniotter@lemmygrad.ml avatar

My hot take is that if you sell your soul to the Nazis to fight for independence, you should be dealt with like a Nazi.

Tarte , (edited )
@Tarte@kbin.social avatar

Not that hot of a take. They committed plenty of war crimes of their own and some were dealt with accordingly after the war. Sadly, not all war criminals were put to trial for various reasons and now it’s oftentimes too late.

Gadg8eer ,
@Gadg8eer@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Oof, yeah. That puts a kink in it.

Tbh, maybe we should just ask “Does (insert ideology here) tell me to kill the preteen (or for recent events, anyone under the age of majority) children of the supposedly evil people?” and if the answer is yes or “not specifically but I have no recourse if they suddenly tell me to kill kids” then (insert ideology here) is evil.

bdonvr ,

TL;DR - Not all Nazis

In any case they weren’t formally accused of war crimes, but that doesn’t mean they weren’t committing atrocities in Poland

PolandIsAStateOfMind ,
@PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml avatar

They spend half of war hunting partisans in Poland, Slovakia and Yugoslavia. They have immense amount of blood of heroes and innocents on their hands.

Blursty ,
@Blursty@lemmygrad.ml avatar

choose between two imperialist powers

Jesus Christ. Learn what imperialism is FFS. I can’t keep cringeing on this ignorant shit.

CollisionResistance ,

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