Is a Chinese celebrity dissident really a con man?

LarkinDePark , 1 month ago

Always the same story.

Still, the damage is done. Some people still believe in the Uighur genocide and that the USA was concerned for Muslims in Xingjiang.

muhyb , 1 month ago

Yeah, sure. Those “re-education” camps are not real. You Lemmygrad people believe in something else.

en.wikipedia.org/…/Persecution_of_Uyghurs_in_Chin…

carl_marks_1312 , 1 month ago

Those are vocational training centers and.noone disputes their existence, lib. Also it’s funny you’re sharing the Wikipedia link that used to be called “Uyghur genocide” but had to change title due to lack of evidence

muhyb , 1 month ago

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carl_marks_1312 , 1 month ago

CCP doesn’t like minorities, especially Turkic minorities. What they do is mere assimilation and it doesn’t fall far from genocide

The fact that Xinjiang has one of the worlds highest mosque densities and having arabic description everywhere contradicts your assessment.

Lack of evidence is a cool term, because it’s total controlled under CCP. They don’t allow foreign media there. Hmm, what could be the reason I wonder.

Israel has banned aljazeera and other news outlets and organizations critical of them from their territory, yet are not able to hide the genocide on the Palestinians.

Considering this your assessment is also laughable

muhyb , 1 month ago

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carl_marks_1312 , 1 month ago

How about send me a map of those mosques then?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mosques_in_China

At least do some basic investigation before you opine

muhyb , 1 month ago

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carl_marks_1312 , 1 month ago

Thank you for acknowledging that the situation isnt black and white, also I aplogize for commenting with an overly hostile tone.

Since it’s impossible to prove a negative (the burdon of prove lies with the accuser/west), there’s a context that you might be missing and be interested. Here’s a comprehensive contextualization from the Chinese perspective utilizing western sources:

www.qiaocollective.com/education/xinjiang

geneva_convenience , 1 month ago

The scale of the genocide is likely exaggerated but the base evidence checks out.

Similar to Hamas committing some war crimes on oct7 and the west making up the other 90%.

carl_marks_1312 , 1 month ago

the base evidence checks out.

Do you mind sharing a source?

geneva_convenience , 1 month ago

Sure here’s a great video with a timestamp of evidence www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz9ICFDk8Js&t=1643s

carl_marks_1312 , 1 month ago

Ugh BE. Heres an analysis on the video tho

medium.com/…/breaking-down-the-bbcs-visit-to-hota…

geneva_convenience , 1 month ago (edited 1 month ago)

When Buayxiam (another Uyghur instructor) tells him about how their goal is also to get rid of religious extremism, she’s met with a very solemn WE CALL THAT BRAINWASHING from Sudsworth.

What should be done then? If there are Chinese citizens who subscribe to jihadist ideologies, shouldn’t an attempt be made to change their minds? Is that brainwashing?

Ah yes just a reeducation camp for terrorist jihadis. “Imperialist try not to paint Muslims who they want to suppress as terrorists difficulty level impossible”.

I’m not sure what the comparison to Guantamo after that is supposed to mean. I’m sure the Uyghur camps are better than Abu Ghraib and Guantanmo but that doesn’t mean much.

If there was nothing to hide they would have allowed the BBC to visit a facility of their choosing and other human rights organisations to enter and examine the area. Not allowing people to inspect only makes things look more suspicious.

The article further mentions a journalist confusing the location of a mosque they claimed was destroyed. That might be true in one instance. This FT article is filled to the brim with them though and it doesn’t look faked.

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/6b56df9d-b262-49ab-8708-fc90d3ea527b.png

carl_marks_1312 , 29 days ago

Imperialist try not to paint Muslims who they want to suppress as terrorists difficulty level impossible

I mean you did have terrorist attacks in China. Also the US delisting ETIM as an terrorist organisation tends to encourage that.

I’m not sure what the comparison to Guantamo after that is supposed to mean.

At least recite the full question being asked

What should be done then? If there are Chinese citizens who subscribe to jihadist ideologies, shouldn’t an attempt be made to change their minds? Is that brainwashing?

Or should they be considered a lost cause and sent to a Guantanamo type location?

I’m sure the Uyghur camps are better than Abu Ghraib and Guantanmo but that doesn’t mean much.

Vocational Training Centers where you learn mandarin and less radical interpretations of islam are indeed better approaches than Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo.

If there was nothing to hide they would have allowed the BBC to visit a facility of their choosing and other human rights organisations to enter and examine the area. Not allowing people to inspect only makes things look more suspicious.

Why would they let the BBC that obviously doesnt give a shit about mulims (see reporting on Palestine)? Why would they let western think thank financed NGOs in?

Most Muslim countries see no wrong doing neither axios.com/…/un-statement-china-uighurs-xinjiang

This FT article is filled to the brim with them though and it doesn’t look faked An analysis of 2,312 mosques once featuring Islamic architecture shows that three-quarters have been modified or destroyed since 2018.

Does the FT article mention that the highest density of mosques is in Xinjiang? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mosques_in_China

2,312 aint that much in China

geneva_convenience , 29 days ago

Just like those “terrorists” in the middle east that started attacking Americans in Iraq?

And Israel also just needs to fight those “Scary Muslamic terrorists”. Nobody is being oppressed here guys! It’s just “getting rid of terrorism”.

A Muslim that fights back against their colonialist oppressor. Suddenly the imperial oppressor has to get rid of those “terrorists”.

Does the FT article mention that the highest density of mosques is in Xinjiang? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mosques_in_China

You asked for evidence of the cultural erasure of Islam in China and the FT article provides it in spades. There are also videos of protests against the renovation of said mosques.

Vocational Training Centers where you learn mandarin and less radical interpretations of islam are indeed better approaches than Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo.

Where a family fully loses contact with their father for 8+ years because he suddenly “voluntarily signed up for vocational training”.

You have to choose between “the CCP is doing cultural Genocide against Muslims and they are all terrorists who need to be culturally assimilated”, or “there is nothing going on”. You can’t do both.

carl_marks_1312 , 29 days ago

Just like those “terrorists” in the middle east that started attacking Americans in Iraq?

The Americans invaded Iraq, Xinjiang is part of China since the quing dynasty you. Comparing apples and oranges.

Also are you denying that terrorist attacks were not perpetrated by the Etim??

A Muslim that fights back against their colonialist oppressor. Suddenly the imperial oppressor has to get rid of those “terrorists”.

What no theory does to a mf. Also portraying communists as an outside force, where have I heard this type of rhetoric before? (It’s from facists)

Where a family fully loses contact with their father for 8+ years because he suddenly “voluntarily signed up for vocational training”.

Without context this is meaningless drivel. Provide a source

You have to choose between “the CCP is doing cultural Genocide against Muslims and they are all terrorists who need to be culturally assimilated”, or “there is nothing going on”. You can’t do both.

Cultural genocide is when you have the highest density of mosques and the preserving of Uyghur Arabic and ethnic assimilation is when you teach another language (without banning the native one)

Who is saying that they are all terrorists? And who is saying “nothing going on”?

You re saying “religious extremism and terrorist attacks are good actually and needs to be respected”

geneva_convenience , 28 days ago

The Americans invaded Iraq, Xinjiang is part of China since the quing dynasty you. Comparing apples and oranges.

Someone drew some lines on a map 200 years ago when the concept of countries was invented. An entire culture should now be assimilated to match the lines on the map.

Israel must be a legitimate country too, someone drew some lines on a map. The British playbook strikes again.

Without context this is meaningless drivel. Provide a source

In the video linked previously right, right after the camp tour

Cultural genocide is when you have the highest density of mosques and the preserving of Uyghur Arabic and ethnic assimilation is when you teach another language (without banning the native one)

The most amount of mosques according to Google is indonesia. Source for your claim?

The articles about the mosque architectures being forcefully changed to be more “Chinese” against the will of the population does not support your claim.

Also are you denying that terrorist attacks were not perpetrated by the Etim??

I’m sure there was some seperatism. Which was subsequently exaggerated and hijacked as Imperalists to do push whatever agenda they want. The funniest part is how China literally did it together with America.

“How China hijacked the war on terror”

“Prior to 9/11, Chinese authorities had depicted Xinjiang as prey to only sporadic separatist violence. The Sept. 2, 2001 edition of Hong Kong’s Chinese language Ta Kung Pao newspaper quoted CCP officials in Xinjiang who stated “by no means is Xinjiang a place where violence and terrorist accidents take place very often,” and that the situation there was “better than ever in history.”

'Within months, China’s Xinjiang narrative lurched from that of a stable region withscattered elements of “separatists’’ to that of abattleground beset by al-Qaeda-funded terror groups. The U.S. governmentendorsed that rebranding by designating a then little-known entity, the East Turkistan Islamic Movement (ETIM), as an international terror group.”

‘Despite those inconsistencies, Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage in September 2002 officially designated ETIM a terrorist entity. The U.S. Treasury Department bolstered that allegation by attributing solely to ETIM the same terror incident data, (“over 200 acts of terrorism, resulting in at least 162 deaths and over 440 injuries”) that the Chinese government’s January 2002 White Paper had attributed to various terrorist groups.’

'That blanket acceptance of the Chinese government’s Xinjiang terrorism narrative was nothing less than a diplomatic quid pro quo, Boucher said. “It was done to help gain China’s support for invading Iraq,” Boucher told the South China Morning Post. ’

carl_marks_1312 , 28 days ago

Someone drew some lines on a map 200 years ago when the concept of countries was invented. An entire culture should now be assimilated to match the lines on the map. Israel must be a legitimate country too, someone drew some lines on a map. The British playbook strikes again.

Ok thanks, at least I now understand your (anarchist?) perspective. Generally I’m with you with abolishing borders, but don’t see it realistically happening over night and the entire world at once. A socialist state needs to exists to protect it’s people from imperial forces. Also I’m going to disregard you call for the ETIM to have their own state (i.e. East Turkistan) with borders.

In the video linked previously right, right after the camp tour

Give me a timestamp. Not gonna watch BE kissing the imperial boot for one hour.

The most amount of mosques according to Google is indonesia. Source for your claim?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mosques_in_China

“In of 2014 there were 39,135 mosques in China,[1][2] in 2009 an estimated 25,000 of these were in Xinjiang, a north-west autonomous region, having a high density of one mosque per 500 Muslims.[3]”

The articles about the mosque architectures being forcefully changed to be more “Chinese” against the will of the population does not support your claim.

The article handselected and made “An analysis of 2,312 mosques once featuring Islamic architecture shows that three-quarters have been modified or destroyed since 2018.” “Modified” being an obtuse way of saying “renovation”, so that the roof doesnt collapse and kills the worshipers. So not only do they hand sample a small amount of the total amount of mosques, they create an obtuse category of “modification” and destruction. I wonder why they don’t give the raw number of destroyed mosques if they seem to have the data?

I’m sure there was some seperatism.

If you’re at all interested at the context:

www.qiaocollective.com/education/xinjiang

The extent of terrorist violence in China during this period is not well known in the West. There were many attacks between 1990 and 2016 and not all of the information is yet available. A compilation of publicly-known attacks has been collected here. Some high-profile attacks are as follows:

➤ 2009 July 5 – The Urumqi Riots, 197 killed, 1700 wounded. Chinese investigations allege that the riots were enflamed by foreign entities such as the WUC to undermine regional stability and unity. As an aside, due to Facebook’s failure to provide information to the Chinese government following the attacks, Western social media was banned from China.

➤ 2013 October 28 – Tiananmen Attack, 5 killed, 40 wounded. Usmen Hasan, along with his mother and wife, drives a jeep through a crowd at Beijing’s Tiananmen Square before setting the vehicle on fire. Authorities find “extremist religious content” and a jihadi flag in the remains of the vehicle.

➤ 2014 March 1 – Kunming Train Station Attack, 31 killed, 141 wounded. Eight attackers burst into the city’s rail station, stabbing people at random before police arrive at the scene. Officials identify the leader of the group as Abdurehim Kurban, and state that insignias and flags worn by the attackers point to political involvement as “East Turkestan” separatists. The international community, including U.S. State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki, joins China in denouncing the attack as an act of terrorism.

➤ 2014 May 22 – Urumqi Attack, 39 killed and 94 injured as attackers drive two cars into a crowded marketplace and throw explosives towards surrounding buildings.

➤ 2014 July 30 – Assassination of Imam Juma Tahir at the Id Kah Mosque after morning prayers. Juma Tahir was the practicing imam of Id Kah, China

Which was subsequently exaggerated and hijacked as Imperalists to do push whatever agenda they want.

You keep using the term imperialist, it doesn’t mean what you think it means.

The funniest part is how China literally did it together with America.

Yeah America inciting the terrorist attacks, and when China doesn’t invade another country, they point the finger and say “genocide” and had to backtrack to “cultural genocide” because all evidence is paper thin. China not being able to prove a negative is in a losing position, especially against a hegemon