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Brickardo ,

What a based man. As a wise Spaniard once said, “Malditas sean las guerras y los canallas que las hacen”.

Uncaged_Jay , (edited )

I understand being scared, but it would be hard for me to abandon my country in its time of need. Not for the government, but for the people that live there.

ETA: quite a few down votes, no one explaining why though

card797 ,

Cowardice. They won’t be welcome in the next country they flee to either.

Olhonestjim ,

Oh, that’s the only reason you can think of, huh? You must be a real tough guy.

card797 ,

Yeah I’m an alpha male. No. Jesus. I’m saying you can’t just run away when your home and entire life is under threat from a source of power. When would you stop running?

Olhonestjim ,

Please define cowardice. For instance, are these men cowards?

youtu.be/X-elmAeX_4U?si=OyzGqYLAcfK0B21L

doubtingtammy ,

War bad (Unironically)

Uncaged_Jay ,

Naturally war is bad, but you can’t stand and defend your own people?

Olhonestjim ,

Many people cannot, correct. And that does not reflect poorly upon them simply because you can’t understand it. That’s why boot camp weeds out so many people who volunteered but still can’t hack it. Many people don’t even realize they don’t have what it takes. And you think it’s a bad thing for wiser people to recognize it in themselves?

Uncaged_Jay ,

I can’t conceive of someone so fearful of war that they’d willingly leave others out to dry in this fashion while hiding behind the forces of another nation.

Olhonestjim ,

Perhaps you lack imagination.

Uncaged_Jay ,

Perhaps, or perhaps people like this just aren’t the types of people I associate with

Olhonestjim ,

Well it seems like you think you know these people you claim you don’t know. For instance, you keep accusing them of being fearful, and that being the only reason you can think of why people would not be willing to go to war.

Can you think of no other reason why people would be unsuited for the military and combat? Because I assure you, boot camp weeds out people who volunteer, and that the military finds unsuitable. Do you think cowardice is the only thing they look for?

Uncaged_Jay ,

Basic training was the easiest part of my military career. The recruits that went home did so because they got hypothermia or cracked the tops of their humerus, not because they couldn’t hack it mentally. If they wanted to weed out those unfit, then the individual who this article is about would be disqualified or an RTT in basic. I was discharged at the end of my contract because of physical injuries, so I understand being considered unqualified for military service.

I cannot think of any reason I wouldn’t defend my home, friends, and family against a foreign invader. If the US was being invaded and my family’s lives were at risk, you can bet your ass I’d be doing everything I could to defend my country.

Olhonestjim ,

Really? Because when I went to boot camp we lost almost 5% of the division due to mental health issues and behavioral problems. Only a couple of people got removed for physical issues.

Do you not believe in mental health problems or something? Is cowardice literally the only thing you think you understand?

Uncaged_Jay ,

When you went to boot camp (assuming you were/are a sailor based on verbage), you lost 5% of your division to mental health issues. It seems to me that people considered unfit for duty wouldn’t graduate basic training at all.

I think you’re missing my point. It’s not about being unfit to fight, it’s about the willingness to defend your home. I can’t get behind people that turn and run when the people that make up their country need them. I can’t support people that aren’t even willing to try given these circumstances.

Olhonestjim , (edited )

Correct, Boot Camp is a filter to get rid of people who are unfit for the military, and the quote on the article at the top says “I was not made for war.”

It sounded to me like you were smearing all those men who felt they were unfit for war as all cowards, and it still does. You and I both ought to know that not everybody is fit for war. If some of them are wise enough to realize that fact, that is not cowardice. Some people are not fit to fight and that doesn’t reflect poorly upon them. That’s simply how it has always been. Some are warriors. Some are not. If we dishonor those who are not, that reflects poorly on us, not them.

doubtingtammy ,

Every warmonger to ever exist:

Naturally war is bad, but

PolandIsAStateOfMind ,
@PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml avatar

quite a few down votes, no one explaining why though

It’s hard to take such declarations seriously over internet.

Olhonestjim ,

There are plenty of reasons that make a person unsuited for combat besides fear. The unwillingness to kill another person is a big one. The awareness that you simply don’t have that kind of thing in you. Seriously, there’s no call for you to smear them like that.

Uncaged_Jay , (edited )

I’m sorry, I can’t agree with that statement for several reasons.

  1. the vast majority of military members are not in direct combat roles in this day and age. There are plenty of roles where one isn’t infantry, be it intelligence, air defense, logistics, maintenence, etcetera.
  2. these aren’t people, these are monsters invading your homeland that will subject you to their government at best and slaughter you at less than best, and far worse at their worst. If you can’t pull a trigger to defend your family and friends from that, but you’ll leave them out to dry in front of an invading force while you hide behind the forces of other countries, where do your principles lie?
ipkpjersi ,

As if those Ukranian men aren’t being forced into infantry when conscripted, give me a break. You really think they are given a choice what role they want?

Uncaged_Jay ,

Ukraine has shown extensive combat effectiveness via their use of rocket propelled munitions, I’m sure more and more of these individuals will be trained on HIMARS and Patriot systems now that the US has permitted their use against targets inside of Russia

Stalins_Spoon ,
@Stalins_Spoon@lemmygrad.ml avatar

bot behavior

Floey ,

Why don’t you go fight instead of talking big.

Uncaged_Jay ,

Already have, got the injuries to prove it

NecroParagon , (edited )

I agree with you but I also understand why this is happening. I would be hard pressed to say I would be made out for military service even though I have great respect for those in the military. Cowardice is one reason and a very relatable one at that. To say people aren’t fleeing because of cowardice at all is naive. But to judge them for that is unfair. I think we all agree there.

That being said, people in your comment chain aren’t taking into account the fact that the very fabric of the Ukrainian society is under threat of total eradication. Historically that brings out a higher calling in people to defend their own homes, their loved ones, and their neighbors.

At any rate, the fleeing of these men bodes quite poorly for the future of us all.

I’m tired of people acting like Ukraine isn’t holding back the fascist tide of Russian imperialism to the benefit of us all. If they were to give up today it would spell the end of their civilization, and a start to many great problems for the rest of us. Our peace is paid for in Ukrainian blood right now. Russia is sabotaging several foreign powers with intention to finish this genocide and expand the war. America, Germany, Sweden and elsewhere have been hit. And people act like we’re not going to have to put our own soldiers on the line at some point. And the less Ukrainians in the fight, the sooner that will be.

Give me the downvotes. I’ve studied Russian history.

Edit: I’d also like someone to give me an alternative to conscription in their case. I see no other option.

LesserAbe ,

When the country is doing stupid shit like invading Iraq I’m opposed to the draft. When it’s defending against an existential threat which is on native soil, I don’t have as much sympathy for people avoiding the draft.

reagansrottencorpse ,

You would if it was you being sent to the meat grinder.

EasternLettuce ,

Very brave stance coming from someone online

ShinkanTrain ,

Go take their place then.

CMDR_Horn ,

Ukraine allows for foreign volunteers. Feel free to help out.

nekandro ,

So when are you booking your flight to Kyiv?

LesserAbe ,

Do you think there are situations where conscription is appropriate?

LarkinDePark ,

No. People should fight for what they believe in, not got someone else’s beliefs. If you can’t convince them then that’s your problem.

HumanPenguin ,
@HumanPenguin@feddit.uk avatar

Not disagreeing. More devils advocate.

But are you basically saying if your home is attacked by another nation. One much larger and using draft to fill the ranks of attackers.

You are happy to allow your leader to fail to convince people to save your and your family/childrens lives.

Because at the end of it. That is why many folks support draft for a nation under attack.

I personally always think it is best as a last resort. Trained full time pros are genrally better at the job. But in an attack like this the amount of work needed to build and manage defences needs a huge labour force. Even modern tech warfare needs huge labour.

It is the idea that everyone needs the actions of these people to survive. That makes the vast majority express views like Ops original comment.

LarkinDePark ,

But are you basically saying if your home is attacked … You are happy to allow your leader to fail to convince people to save your and your family/childrens lives.

How can expect anyone to take you seriously with this stupid shit?

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/3f2beb2f-f57e-432b-9a47-9b789a22afa8.png

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