Death toll tops 1,000 after Haj marked by extreme heat

iAmTheTot , 7 days ago

Just because lots don’t do doesn’t mean it isn’t a thing that their religion mandates. I can think of a few Catholics that don’t do things their religion mandates, too.

Mouselemming , 7 days ago

If a person gathers all their savings in order to make the pilgrimage, and dies there, what’s done with their body? You know the airlines aren’t going to refund those return flights, do they switch out the seat for a ride in the baggage compartment?

PanArab , 7 days ago

I don’t know. I guess they could be buried in Makkah or Medinah.

CliveRosfield , 7 days ago

My uncle died during a pilgrimage from a heart attack (he had prior health issues), you get buried there ideally.

PanArab , 7 days ago

It is more impressive that Saudi Arabia can manage to host 1.83 million in a week. Though perhaps it is now time to install more shades and outdoor cooling.

iAmTheTot , 7 days ago

I can’t help but wonder if even a single Muslim will question how their god could let this happen. I mean, their religion literally mandates that they make a pilgrimage there, and then a bunch of them die completing that mandate. Wild.

My heart sincerely goes out to the families, this is tragic.

PanArab , 7 days ago (edited 7 days ago)

their religion literally mandates that they make a pilgrimage there

No it doesn’t. Pilgrimage is one of those obligations that most people are exempt from unless they can. Perhaps they thought they were more physically fit than they really are. Someone who is sick, poor, or unable for whatever reason, is exempt.

My heart sincerely goes out to the families, this is tragic.

People who die during pilgrimage are considered martyrs, so it is not the worst outcome. There has always been a risk associated with pilgrimage. Right now it is as easy and comfortable as it ever been.

I wish people commenting here knew a bit about Islam before doing so.

iAmTheTot , 7 days ago

I would argue that Muslims are, by default, required by their religion to make the hajj. You make it sound as if it’s opt in, but their religion mandates it with some exceptions.

Not the worst outcome for whom? People are dead. I’ll bet there’s at least one child, sibling, or parent who isn’t terribly comforted by the idea that their loved one is a martyr.

While I wouldn’t call myself an Islamic scholar, I would say I do know a bit about it.

PanArab , 7 days ago

I would argue that Muslims are, by default, required by their religion to make the hajj.

No it does not. The verse is quite clear: {وَلِلَّهِ عَلَى النَّاسِ حِجُّ الْبَيْتِ مَنِ اسْتَطَاعَ إِلَيْهِ سَبِيلًا} {And for God is the duty of the people to perform the Hajj to the House, whoever is able to make a way to it} emphasis mine. If someone knows they can’t: sick, poor, etc… the verse says basically don’t go.

While I wouldn’t call myself an Islamic scholar, I would say I do know a bit about it.

Do you know that in certain cases Hajj is haram? Possibly risking your life is one reason why many have prohibited it.

Not the worst outcome for whom? People are dead. I’ll bet there’s at least one child, sibling, or parent who isn’t terribly comforted by the idea that their loved one is a martyr.

For the faithful it is not. I don’t know what to say more than this. They could have not performed hajj but they chose to oblige themselves.

iAmTheTot , 7 days ago

You realize that my entire comment basically boiled down to, “I wonder if this will make chime question their faith,” so imho replying that I shouldn’t feel bad for the faithful is a little bit missing the point.

If it’s not clear, I’m not a Muslim, and not religious at all. Even if all of the families are comforted by their religion, I will still feel pain for them.

PanArab , 7 days ago

I wonder if this will make chime question their faith

Why would they question their faith? The Quran clearly states go to pilgrimage only if you can. Perhaps they felt compelled to go, but surely they knew they didn’t have to.

People who are religious are generally not afraid to die. There are endless risks associated with pilgrimage beyond just a heat stroke.

TranscendentalEmpire , 7 days ago

would argue that Muslims are, by default, required by their religion to make the hajj. You make it sound as if it’s opt in, but their religion mandates it with some exceptions.

Nah dude, the vast majority of Muslims never go to mecca. It’s not a mandate anyone enforces but yourself. I think only like 9% of Muslims ever actually get to make the trip.

Bluefalcon , 7 days ago

Every religion should be required to do this. Meet up in a remote ass desert at the hottest times. Use no shade, proper clothing, or protection and just let God cook. See who they judge.

rab , 7 days ago

Mods are wankers

psvrh , 7 days ago

Apropos of nothing, Saudi Arabia is the definition of a petro-state.

Chickens. Coming home. Roosting. Etc.

nikita , 7 days ago

Your comment was probably off handed but I just wanna clarify that muslims aren’t to blame for our oil addiction, rich people are

psvrh , 7 days ago

I agree, but to some degree, people own their government, and this government is, more than many, responsible for much of the causes of climate change.

I’d say the same thing if Florida sinks into the sea, or South Texas and Louisiana are swamped, or north Alberta catches fire.

PanArab , 7 days ago

This is like blaming grape farmers for drunk drivers.

How is it our fault? We thought you will make jelly and fertilizers from it, instead you burn it to move your cyclist-crushing F-150s.

Bluefalcon , 7 days ago

Also remember the west (Brits and Americans) empowered them. Hell, most of the Saudi Family grew up in one of those places.

PanArab , 7 days ago

So is Canada. How’s your forest fires?

psvrh , 7 days ago

I won’t say I didn’t have a bit of schadenfreude when Fort McMurray burned.