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Berlin state bank freezes Jewish Voice account

On 25 March 2024, our account with the Berliner Sparkasse was frozen with immediate effect. In a letter, the Sparkasse informed us that it had taken this step as a precautionary measure and that we should submit numerous internal documents by 5 April to update our customer data. As a public corporation, the bank is bound by public law and may therefore not arbitrarily freeze accounts without providing an explanation, which it did not. It is also highly unusual that the required documents include a list of our members with their full names and addresses.

TheAnonymouseJoker ,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

Anglo fascism is not a conspiracy theory. That INGSOC phrase used back then had meaning, except it is more like INGFASH.

Omega_Haxors , (edited )

Germany never underwent denazification, and now they’re weaponizing anti-holocaust denial laws to protect the genocide in Gaza. If you so much as suggest that what Zionists are doing is an extension of the holocaust, or that the nazis supported Zionism, you’re an anti-semite. Meanwhile Zionists are mass murdering Jewish people and Palestinians alike with impunity, both of which are Semites, and you’re not allowed even allowed to acknowledge that fact. A lot of the loudest voices are Jewish activists and they’re just throwing the book at them.

EDIT: and conflating Judaism and Zionism is also anti-semitism, and if i’m not mistaken German law literally says the opposite.

nichtsowichtig ,

If you so much as suggest that what Zionists are doing is an extension of the holocaust, or that the nazis supported Zionism, you’re an anti-semite.

yes, because that is clearly antisemitic. Both of these things are factually wrong. And if that isn’t plainly obvious to you, antisemitism is at play here.

Omega_Haxors ,

Anti-semitism is so built into German government and culture that they genuinely think they’re good guys for defending Zionism.

I’m sick of having to explain this every single time some German comes along and gets offended that I would imply the links between Zionism and Nazism, but the Nazis literally supported Zionism because to them it was a method of getting Jewish people out of the country.

nichtsowichtig ,

I’m not offended, I am saying that what you wrote is anti-semitic.

The Nazis murdered the jewish people. They didn’t want to get them out of the country, they wanted them exterminated. They made an effort to bring people from everywhere in order to kill them.

NoneOfUrBusiness ,

I guess the Nazis never left.

Omega_Haxors ,

They’re in Feddit de and sh.ithole

agressivelyPassive ,

And I’m 100% sure this is simply a case of KYC or money laundering prevention going a bit wrong and professional victims try to frame this as some sort of conspiracy.

Yes, this sucks for the business, but it’s nothing too unusual.

gnuhaut OP ,

I don’t think so. And it’s not a business.

Our previous account with the Bank for Social Economy was closed in 2019 because of our support for BDS. This happened after agitation by Israeli journalist Benjamin Weinthal and pressure from the Central Council of Jews in Germany.

agressivelyPassive ,

And BDS is considered an antisemitic organization by several agencies. I don’t agree with that assessment, but that’s exactly what KYC is for. Banks don’t want to be involved with such organizations and it’s not necessarily their job or authority to draw the line. These banks are either AöR or cooperatives, they have an internal ruleset, set by the owners/members. And that ruleset probably has a paragraph about extremism and antisemitism. If the bank now lets this client openly operate with entities that are considered extremist, they are not compliant. Simple as that.

Again, I’m not a fan of the BDS categorization, but acting like the banks are somehow targeting that client specifically is plain wrong.

gnuhaut OP ,

Wait and your point is that a state-owned bank persecuting an org for its political position is totally normal there’s nothing to see here? 100% sure there’s no political pressure are you? You called them “professional victims” you fuck.

agressivelyPassive ,

Being insulting is probably a really good way to convince people.

Anyway, this is not “persecution”, it’s KYC and compliance. Banks don’t want to deal with extremist organizations. At all. And if your business deals with organizations that are considered extremist, banks don’t want you as a customer.

The reason behind that is simply that BDS is considered an antisemitic organization. Be angry at whoever decided that, but don’t blame banks for doing their job. I bet your opinion would be very very different, if the organization in question happened to be AfD related. And that’s what experts call double standards.

gnuhaut OP ,

And “professional victims” is not an insult? You fucking started with the insults. And again, it’s not a business. And yes, obviously I think racists should be persecuted, and anti-racists should not. That does not make me a hypocrite. Seriously your argument is that I should not complain about political persecution (or whatever you want to call it) by a bank because banks just routinely do that?

agressivelyPassive ,

Banks are businesses, no matter who owns them. Even stateiest state business is - as the name implies - a business. And businesses and internal rules. It’s not “racist” either.

Again, be angry at whoever made BDS antisemitic, not the bank.

On a more personal note: do you really think that your childish tantrums are helping your cause? I don’t even disagree with your point, but just try to explain the reasoning behind the situation and why your critic, and that of the paper here is wrong - and you call me names. Do you think that helps? Do you think, you’ll be taken seriously like that? Foaming mouths don’t seem very convincing, even if they do have good points .

dankestnug420 ,

Why are settler groups allowed to finance and collect donations without ramifications?

I also disagree with your conflation of the founder with the overall sentiments of the group.

agressivelyPassive ,

It’s not my conflation, it’s the “official” conflation in Germany, I wrote that several times in this thread.

Settler groups are, as far as I know, not automatically illegal or sanctioned. If there were persons that were sanctioned, this would look different, though. Also, a newspaper is just more public. If you don’t advertise that your account is used for potentially extremist reasons, you will probably be able to fly under the radar.

gnuhaut OP ,

And if your business deals with organizations that are considered extremist, banks don’t want you as a customer.

Spot the problem? You referred to the customer, in this case a Verein, as a business. You did that twice, and I twice corrected you that it is not a business. Now you’re lecturing me on the fact that banks are businesses. Why?

Again, be angry at whoever made BDS antisemitic, not the bank.

I’m not conceding the point that this is “not unusual” and no political pressure was put on the bank (which you said something like you’re 100% sure about, which you could not possibly know), but for the sake of argument, let’s say for a moment that it is:

It still makes no sense for you to call them “professional victims” for complaining about it. Like just because this is (possibly) legal for the bank to do, and they did so because of routine compliance shit and not because of pressure, does not mean it is not a political persecution. Even this scenario, they are actual real victims of political persecution, are they not?

Also don’t fucking tone police me.

agressivelyPassive ,

You referred to the customer, in this case a Verein, as a business

Because it is de facto a business. It’s a newspaper, maybe not profit oriented, but a newspaper nonetheless. Being super pedantic about the exact legal construction is completely beside the point. The same logic would apply to every account holder.

I’m not conceding the point that this is “not unusual” and no political pressure was put on the bank

Again, it’s called compliance. Look it up. You can concede or not whatever you want, but this is how banks work. There’s zero political pressure necessary.

Even this scenario, they are actual real victims of political persecution, are they not?

No. BDS is a pretty iffy organization and deeming them antisemitic is certainly not the best way to look at it, but definitely not completely wrong either. There is a line in all of German law, and that line says that antisemitism is not acceptable. Period. And that means, dealing with antisemitic organizations is not acceptable. Again, 209th time, not my opinion, but the official stance of Germany.

Also don’t fucking tone police

Suddenly freedom of speech isn’t important anymore? I’m not policing you, I’m trying to explain to you, that your way of talking is not a good way to achieve your goals. You attack anyone who’s not on party line, you start personally insulting for no reason, and you keep not understanding basic facts in order to keep your anger up.

bloodfart ,

No. BDS is a pretty iffy organization and deeming them antisemitic is certainly not the best way to look at it, but definitely not completely wrong either.

There it is.

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