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Kbobabob ,

Are these the same tunnels IDF built when they occupied the area?

machinin ,

No, these are “terror tunnels,” so they are different! If you put the word “terror” in front of something, it completely changes it.

Neato ,
@Neato@kbin.social avatar

If your enemy is using civilians as human shields you still cannot attack the civilians being used. You find better tactics that limit that tactic. Refusing to do so makes you no better than your enemy. Both should be condemned.

For another example this is like a shooter hiding behind a hostage and the cops just shooting the hostage. That's murder.

hh93 ,

It’s just the trolley problem Moral dilemma in a very real and cruel application.

SinningStromgald ,

It’s worse than that since in this case there is plenty of time to stop the trolley before it kills anyone.

c0mbatbag3l ,
@c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world avatar

“plenty of time” is pretty generous considering this whole thing started with an attack which killed over a thousand people.

blahsay ,

So you expect people not to shoot back when their friends are getting shot at? That’s not how people work.

Hamas has engineered a situation to cause as much suffering to their own people as possible - it’s great propaganda but truly one of the most horrific betrayals in history.

Neato ,
@Neato@kbin.social avatar

This is a military and they are bombing. They should be better then terrorists. Or the world will consider them thus.

blahsay ,

Hamas is a government with an army. Your argument is basically a double standard against the IDF. They have a word for that.

steven ,

Hamas is not really a government at all though. They barely have any support in Gaza. Many years ago some election was held but there was only Hamas to choose from basically. I wouldn’t call Hamas in any way representing anyone else but themselves, and not the Palestinian people. Maybe more rather their Arab sponsors.

nogooduser ,

It’s not a double standard at all. Where did they say that it was ok for Hamas to harm civilians?

c0mbatbag3l ,
@c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world avatar

The lack of criticism against Hamas for using human shields makes it pretty apparent which group they care about holding to standards.

kescusay ,
@kescusay@lemmy.world avatar

No one should be surprised by this. It’s been well known for a long time that Hamas uses civilian infrastructure to shield their operations, and civilians themselves as human shields.

Pistcow ,

Cool, still shouldn’t bomb hospitals.

samokosik ,
@samokosik@lemmynsfw.com avatar

It’s no longer a hospital but a relevant military target. You cannot blame Israel for the measures taken against this “hospital”.

Luci ,
@Luci@lemmy.ca avatar

That’s a funny way to say “fuck civilians.”

samokosik ,
@samokosik@lemmynsfw.com avatar

Hamas was “fucking civilians” for 18 years by building exactly zero shelters and radicalizing whole population

silicon_reverie ,

Holy whataboutism, Batman, no one is arguing that Hamas is in the right here. What are you even trying to say with this? “Hamas ‘fucks civilians’ which makes them evil… so Israel might as well join in and ‘fuck civilians’ too”?

Can’t we all just agree that no one should be “fucking civilians” for any reason, because you know, they’re civilians?

kick_out_the_jams ,

The protection of civilians is precisely the reason weapons and armed forces are usually kept far from ANY civilian infrastructure, especially hospitals.

silicon_reverie ,

Yes, which is why turning a hospital or refugee camp into a command post is a war crime. But it also means that attacking a hospital or refugee camp, whether they’re being used as shields for military targets or not, should also not be done lightly. Iron-clad case made beforehand that it is a military target, rigorous scrutiny of the claim evaluated by an independent body after the fact, and the military action against the target has to prioritize the civilians as much as possible. They’re people. Men, women, and children who have nothing to do with the conflict and are simply caught in the crossfire. One side showing a disregard for the life of innocents does not justify the other side doubling down on the same.

samokosik ,
@samokosik@lemmynsfw.com avatar

We can agree on that both sides should stop harming civilians. Just many people seem to forget the damage Hamas has done by radicalization of the whole population. Hence why you should never have your base underneath a hospital.

5BC2E7 ,

That’s a funny way to say you have more moral clarity than the Red Cross.

livus ,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

It’s no longer a hospital

Tell that to the premature babies that were in incubators there. Or the patients who are still there because they aren't well enough to be moved.

Seriously, those are some extreme mental gymnastics you're doing. Of course it is still a hospital.

glimse ,

The doctors were Hamas! The patients were Hamas! And the premature babies? Also Hamas.

kescusay ,
@kescusay@lemmy.world avatar

Two things…

First, as samokosik says, if it’s being used militarily, it’s a military target. But second - and more importantly - I never said Israel should bomb hospitals.

There is no “should” in this clusterfuck. Everyone is guilty. Hamas happens to be the most guilty in all this, and should definitely be eradicated, but Israel should never have oppressed the Gaza strip or deployed illegal “settlements.” There is no good, clean solution now. Everything is fucked.

luthis ,

Just leave some rat bait at the entrances, problem solved

livus ,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

Comparing other human beings to rats or cockroaches or other vermin is such a hallmark of genocidal rhetoric.

It always amazes me how reliably it crops up, in vastly different cultural contexts, Western or otherwise. E.g. we saw it in Rwanda and Myanmar and Germany. Now here.

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