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Search topics on Ground.Newshttps://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/26/chaos-in-france-after-macron-refuses-to-name-prime-minister-from-leftwing-coalition

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PugJesus ,

Macron was bailed out by cooperation from the left-wing, and now he wants to play fuckwad games. How predictable. I hope they ream his ass out for trying this.

barsquid ,

This deserves a riot. Hopefully the public sets him straight. I wish our own public would flip cars over politicians’ lies and anti-citizen rulings.

Antmz22 ,

“why don’t leftists just cooperate with liberals and try to guide them left”

Well, this is why, most liberals (within power, it’s the opposite in the populace) aren’t good hearted but misinformed and able to be moved left. It has been tried countless times and all that ever happens is they betray the left and try to push their right wing agendas.

PugJesus ,

The alternative here would have been to let the far-right win.

The issue isn’t that the left did cooperate with liberals to prevent fascism. That’s wholly laudable. One simply shouldn’t expect one’s enemies to be anything except temporary allies against worse foes (and I’m not accusing the French left of naivety here, mind, they probably understood and are prepared for this scenario).

Antmz22 ,

The issue isn’t that the left did cooperate with liberals to prevent fascism.

Correct. The issue is that the liberals aren’t cooperating with the left to prevent fascism. They’re just trying to use facsism as a tool against the left, as always.

they probably understood and are prepared for this scenario

I certainly hope so.

tal ,
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

The president had hoped consultations would break the political deadlock caused by the election that left the Assemblée Nationale divided into three roughly equal blocks – left, centre and far right – none of which has a majority of seats.

So, in parliamentary systems – which, for these purposes, France is similar to – typically this is dealt with via multiple factions making concessions to each other and forming a coalition. Is that an option?

kagis

theguardian.com/…/french-government-risks-no-conf…

France’s aversion to coalitions means any new government risks early collapse

In France, however, political leaders from left and right have lined up to rule out a coalition government after Sunday’s snap election produced a parliament of three roughly equal blocs – none with a majority, and all with wildly differing platforms.

Well.

Zaktor ,

I know fuck all about French politics, but it seems strange that he doesn’t just appoint the candidate from the left. It sounds like it’s a fucked up non-functional situation, so he should just let them try to do the impossible and then fail. He’s probably worried that she might actually succeed and is holding out hope for some way to cobble together something as close as possible to the centrist coalition that shit the bed in the first place.

Carrolade ,

Agreed. His excuse rings a little hollow. If there would be a no confidence vote, so be it. Give the left their PM, and if they get thrown out, then move forward with your compromise candidate.

rimu ,
@rimu@piefed.social avatar

If the candidate from the largest coalition can't survive a no confidence vote then I don't see how any other candidate would.

Carrolade ,

Usually its less about group membership and more about individual positions on individual issues. Usually anyway. You’d think there’d be at least someone from either the left or center that the other would find more amenable due to having a few things in common with the other one.

TankovayaDiviziya ,

but it seems strange that he doesn’t just appoint the candidate from the left.

From which part of the left? The New Popular Front is actually an amalgamation of broad left wing coalition of various parties. So Macron had to pick from the far-left communist leader Jean Luc Melenchon, or from the centre left Socialist party led by Olivier Faure.

The French legislative assembly works very differently compared to US Congress or the parliamentary system. There isn’t really one, or two, or only five parties getting votes. The French system is much more pluralistic and it is more like a hodge podge of various parties forming a grand coalition that represents an ideology. Even the current French president Emmanuel Macron’s so-called “party”, Ensemble, is a coalition of centrist parties.

If you want to find out more about France’s current deadlock, here is a good succinct video explaining it. www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5Q5nCCF5ck

Skydancer ,

Not a choice he had to make. The NFP parties agreed on a consensus candidate - Lucie Castets.

TankovayaDiviziya ,

I didn’t know that, thanks for letting me know. However, it seems Lucie herself had previously rejected forming a coalition with Macron’s group according to the Wikipedia article.

njm1314 ,

It’s amazing all the credit we gave him for that snap election decision is being completely erased.

Viking_Hippie ,

Well it’s not like he deserved any of that credit in the first place 🤷

vanontom ,
@vanontom@lemmy.world avatar

I thought people credited Macron with the error and poor timing of the election. But credited the French voters with saving the election (against the far right and polling, quickly uniting with a practical strategy).

BestBouclettes ,

What a fucking shit stain…

Mubelotix ,
@Mubelotix@jlai.lu avatar

What a fucking trace de pneu

palordrolap ,

If that's what I think it is, we use "skid marks" as a euphemism in English too.

febra ,

“Democracy” at work.

Squizzy ,

It is, presumably the elected havent decided yet

Antmz22 ,

presumably the elected havent decided yet

Yeah maybe

…or maybe Macron is opposing the Democratic decision to select Lucie Castets?

From the article.

NFP has put forward Lucie Castets, a 37-year-old economist and director of financial affairs at Paris City Hall, as its candidate. After Monday’s announcement, Jean-Luc Mélenchon, the LFI president, accused Macron of creating an “exceptionally serious situation”.

sukotai ,
@sukotai@lemmy.world avatar

bullshit : i’m french. there is NO chaos at all. Just political entertainement as usual.

TankovayaDiviziya ,

I’m amazed that “chaos” there in France is more like “normal”. I remember some riots that happened couple of years ago and one commenter said France might verge into collapsing. I thought to myself that those who think that are not aware how France works, and rioting is a tradition since the French Revolution.

sukotai ,
@sukotai@lemmy.world avatar

riots may happen in france, but for what is mention in the post, there is absolutely no riot, no chaos or anything else. It’s just a political event without consequence.

TankovayaDiviziya ,

I know. But I mean any political mess in France, riots or not, is seen as severe by outsiders but aren’t aware how things work in France.

However, I admit that the situation in Mayotte is in a completely different context and unprecedented for overseas French territory.

WanderingVentra ,

This is a weird thing to not riot over from my perspective. You guys are being couped. But I guess that’s how they can get away with this, is no one really cares who’s in charge. Same thing happened to us in the 2000’s election and as long as the coup is all according to the process or seems legal, or political, no one does anything.

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

Literally every time I’ve been to France there has been a riot. Edit: actually that’s not true, one of the times I was there it was only a riot watch, they were waiting for sentencing in some trial of righty separatists.

AnUnusualRelic ,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

It’s still riots. But on TV and with ties on.

theacharnian ,
@theacharnian@lemmy.ca avatar

So call a second election. The people will solve the impasse. Either a majority emerges or eventually the parties, exhausted by campaigning, will learn to compromise and make a coalition. Democracy will find a way.

cley_faye ,

the parties, exhausted by campaigning, will learn to compromise and make a coalition

Good luck with that.

Rekhyt , (edited )

The parties aren’t the problem. Macron holds the presidency and appoints the PM. The largest (coalition) party is giving him a candidate AFTER compromises and he’s refusing STILL because he only wants a PM from his own party, who came in second (edit: not third, my bad, they did beat National Rally. They did come in third in the first round of voting though).

theacharnian , (edited )
@theacharnian@lemmy.ca avatar

It sounds like the candidate PM would not have the confidence of the Assembly though because the center doesn’t want to play ball with the left and the left doesn’t have a majority.

That’s why I’m suggesting elections. Keep going until either a majority is elected (in which case I assume the president is obligated to appoint its leader) or the parliamentary math changes.

If Macron and the center are serious about keeping the cordon sanitaire against the far right, they should obviously play ball with the left. The fact that they are not tells me that they are not serious. The left should be able to make that argument to the electorate and hope to convince a majority.

Edit: not only is Macron showing lack of seriousness in keeping the far right at bay, he is also undermining the legitimacy of the presidency by playing parliamentary shenanigans and triggering such a constitutional crisis. I never really understood the fundamentals of France’s semi-presidential system, but in a parliamentary republic like Germany, or Ireland, or Greece for example, the president does not get to play politics with the parliament’s confidence like this. I don’t understand why the French think this is a good system.

tiefling ,

Why the fuck are centrists and right wingers always holding hands to prevent any kind of leftist power?

Oh right, money

AnUnusualRelic , (edited )
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

Macron holds the presidency and appoints the PM.

The big debate is on whether he “appoints” the PM or “picks” the PM.

The constitution doesn’t exactly specify which, and usage was that he would appoint the one issued from the majority vote (but there’s no majority, there’s just one group that’s a wee bit larger). So he’s having his fun, pretending to have a chat with everybody, while knowing all the time that they can really all fuck off and the he’ll do as he pleases.

In the end he’ll most likely have what they call a “technical” government made of non political ministers that will just do as they’re told, because the chambers will be too busy infighting to do anything about it.

AnUnusualRelic ,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

Not possible, there’s a one year delay.

theacharnian ,
@theacharnian@lemmy.ca avatar

God damn it, De Gaulle really screwed you guys over, eh?

AnUnusualRelic ,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

You can’t repeatedly dissolve the chamber. I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

The real problem isn’t with the constitution. It’s with the fact that the French are no longer able to create coalitions around a project. The whole political system is built around the idea that one group has a majority and does as it pleases until the next election. Talking to others is completely alien to them. And that is a real problem.

Most of the other European countries work with coalitions. It makes much more sense (I understand that this is alien to US people).

AnUnusualRelic ,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

will learn to compromise and make a coalition

Lol. You’re new to French politics?

tiefling ,

How are your trash cans looking? Are any of them on fire yet?

theacharnian ,
@theacharnian@lemmy.ca avatar

As a Greek I have some familiarity. Our politics is just as adversarial (if not more) and there is no tradition of coalitions. But when push came to shove, they figured it out, if only for a bit.

AnUnusualRelic ,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

While Greece was arguably mismanaged, it didn’t deserve the harshness it got. But the same political mess could well be in the future of France.

Moah ,
@Moah@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

But then he risks losing again.

febra ,

So he’s pulling a Maduro. No kind of interest paid to the first place party, but I guess we won’t hear any neolibs complain about that.

PugJesus ,

So he’s pulling a Maduro.

Oh, I didn’t realize he was falsifying elections. You do have a reason for accusing Macron of that, right, and aren’t just throwing around accusations to try to lessen the seriousness of Maduro’s actions, right?

febra ,

He’s straight up ignoring the will of the people, so it’s pretty much the same shit to me. A wanna be dictator throwing rocks in the wheels of democracy just because he doesn’t like the election results. Same thing could be said about Macron.

PugJesus ,

so it’s pretty much the same shit to me.

Jesus fucking Christ.

aaaaace ,

What a macaroon…

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