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cosmicrookie ,
@cosmicrookie@lemmy.world avatar

3 …

ssj2marx ,

their links to labor programs affecting Chinese minorities

When they say “forced labor” what they mean is “working programs to economically empower women in places where tradition would force them to marry young and stay at home.”

mholiv ,

This link is to a Facebook post by the CCP controlled “China Central TV” network.

I would be interested in hearing more, but I’m sure you understand why a better source would be a necessity.

ssj2marx ,

The OP source cites “reports by human rights agencies” for its claim of forced labor without any further clarification. If it were a wikipedia article, those would be “weasel words” and the claim would merit a [citation needed]. In any event I don’t believe that there is a satisfying answer to the search for a definitive source on Xinjiang, because most media in China is state-run and most media about China in the west is similarly state-influenced.

mholiv ,

State run is not the same as state influenced. You can’t honestly say they are equivalently influenced.

Also I will restate you posted a literal Facebook post. If you had a better source I know you would rather use that.

ssj2marx ,

Well you’re right that they’re not truly equivalent, as China’s state reporting is generally much higher quality than the slop that is produced from American State Department outrage mills. But I was addressing your seeming urge to want a truly unbiased source, which I don’t believe exists.

If you want to trawl through CCTV’s English website for posts about Xinjiang I invite you to do so, I posted that facebook post specifically because it was fresh in my mind from a previous discussion. And calling it “a literal facebook post” as though it’s the rantings of a suburban conspiracy theorist when it’s a post on facebook by a major news agency is more than a little misleading.

bigboismith ,

Empowering women

Just like slavery in the 1800’s was about civilizing africans

ssj2marx ,

…do you think that slaves were able to open plantations in their own communities and join the ruling political party?

anticolonialist ,

In the meantime there are prisons in the US whos sole purpose is slave labor for capitalists

TrippyFocus ,

Great can we ban it in the US then?

popcap200 ,

Forcing prisoners to repay a debt to society through labor, and forcing the minority you’re actively genociding to produce goods feel like two very different things.

I strongly disagree with US prison labor, and our prison system’s focus on punishment and repayment rather than actually correcting the behaviors, but it’s legal by the US constitution.

The US DoL has an article on the situation with these laborers in China. dol.gov/…/against-their-will-the-situation-in-xin…

TrippyFocus , (edited )

I don’t really care if it’s legal in the constitution, it’s “legal” in China too. My point is that I want it changed so there’s no forced labor in a country that that corporations can profit from it since it’s going to inherently drive conflicts of interest and I feel it too often gets ignored in this country.

Also with minorities being incarcerated at a much higher rate than white citizens. I find that just saying it’s paying back a debt to society fails to recognize the law isn’t being applied equally.

Also in many cases they’re already having to pay for their incarceration.

popcap200 ,

Yet the overwhelming majority of the time, they’ve committed a crime. There may be systematic issues in the justice system, and US that lead to the higher conviction rates/arrest rates, but we have the right to appeal, the right to representation, and our criminal justice system is regularly investigated and publicized.

On the flip side, on a mass scale in Xinjiang, people are being systematically targeted, sterilized, tortured, being forced to work, etc. solely because of their culture and skin color.

The two systems are very different. Two things can be bad, and one of those bad things can be substantially worse. It’s like wondering why Texas will execute a serial killer, but not someone who punched someone at a bar. Both things are bad, but the scale is completely different.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Being a runaway slave used to be a crime. Your “they were convicted” argument is not a good one.

ozymandias117 ,

Not to mention that even in the 60’s Nixon’s cabinet has stated he specifically started the war on drugs and marijuana in order to imprison black people and anyone against the war.

“We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news”

www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/…/index.html

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Why should the red line be at genocide?

The U.S. justice system is inherently racist and it utilizes forced labor. That should be enough.

popcap200 ,

Having the red line as genocide, or as slavery from the buying and selling of people feels like a pretty safe line to have. Blocking goods is a very serious move in international relations.

The US justice system is not inherently racist, it’s systematically racist, which isn’t good, but is a different thing. Nearly every person in the US prison system is there because they committed a crime. The people in Xinjiang did nothing but have the wrong culture and skin color. It’s still a false equivalency.

Anyone can involve themselves and investigate the US court system, they can file complaints, they can sue for unfair treatment etc. International monitors are barred from Xinjiang.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Nearly every person in the US prison system is there because they committed a crime.

Many of them low-level crimes that wouldn’t exist without the pointless drug war and far more often people of color for those crimes than white people who do the same thing. In fact, white people are far less likely to be convicted for a crime of any sort compared to people of color. I’d call that inherent.

VirtualOdour ,

Our prisoners: bad, evil, guilty

Their prisoners: heroic, moral, innocent.

  • of course you belive this and of course the Chinese believe it.
SeattleRain ,

They’re not two different things. They both incentivize the government to subjugate people to enrich themselves and corporations.

This means many innocent people are enslaved or are enslaved for crimes that do not deserve enslavement. That’s why the US has far and away the most prisoners of any country.

Drusas ,

I agree, but can we try to focus on the topic at hand and discuss that?

TheShadow277 ,
@TheShadow277@slrpnk.net avatar

It seems directly related to me. If the US government is fine with slave labour at home, then this decision is really only because the companies sanctioned are Chinese.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

As the old saying goes: “Change the worlds start with yourself China”

autotldr Bot ,

This is the best summary I could come up with:

With those additions, 68 companies now appear on the so-called entity list of firms that the U.S. government says participate in forced labor programs, nearly double the number at the beginning of the year.

But in more recent years, companies making solar panels, flooring, cars, electronics, seafood and other goods have discovered that they, too, use components that were made in Xinjiang.

The United States put the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act into effect two years ago to ban imports made wholly or partly in Xinjiang.

The Chinese government runs programs in the region to transfer groups of local people to factories, fields and mines around Xinjiang and in other parts of China.

Alejandro N. Mayorkas, the homeland security secretary, said in a statement that the department would continue to investigate companies that use forced labor and hold those entities responsible.

Last month, major automakers saw their products halted at U.S. ports after they were found to be importing a part made by a company tied to forced labor in Xinjiang.

The original article contains 587 words, the summary contains 171 words. Saved 71%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!

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