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ZombiFrancis ,

Israel is pretty much Bernie’s worst position, and he still one of the best senators on the issue. His worst take is still the best take around.

UltraMagnus0001 ,

we really failed america by not voting for this guy

Jamil ,

Still refusing to call it a genocide.

Seasoned_Greetings ,

I mean, he did one better. He defined genocide in describing the explicit war crimes of Israel. I think it’s a little unreasonable to be angry that he didn’t use the term when he outright stated that Israel killed and injured 100,000, 70% of which are women and children, rendered a million people homeless and created famine conditions.

I’d be more upset if he just said “genocide” and didn’t clarify the rest like he did.

TubularTittyFrog ,

Bernie is the model of what a politician should be. And about the only one left in the USA that gives a fuck about actual justice and truth.

Asafum ,

When he ran for president I saw him and said “holy shit it’s that guy!”

I went through a phase where I watched wayyyyyyyyyyyy too many documentaries, and pretty much any time there was a section that involved Congress he was always shown in a clip being on the right side of the debate.

He’s always been on “our” side which I imagine is why he’s an “independent.”

FordBeeblebrox ,

Bernie has been a real one for a long time

sandman ,

He’s not a part of both sides.

Fuck everyone who voted for joe and hillary in the primaries.

wintermute_oregon ,

I like Sanders because he isn’t just another d/r. He speaks his mind, and I believe he believes in what he says. I would vote for him out of principle.

That said, his ideas are idiotic for the most part, and he has no clue how the economy works.If elected the country would quickly become a wasteland if his ideas were implemented but I would feel decent voting for him at least.

Zombiepirate ,
@Zombiepirate@lemmy.world avatar

Oh look, the taxes are theft guy (who will vote for Trump) is here to say how little someone else knows about economics.

I’m sure all that wealth will start to trickle down any minute now though.

wintermute_oregon ,

Funny, I don’t remember ever saying taxes are theft by default. What I have said is the tax system should be fair.

Bernie has suggested this, such as taxing wealth, which is unconstitutional. He didn’t propose an amendment; he just wanted to tax wealth. He didn’t even realize that it was against the Constitution. He also said it’s unfair that Elon didn’t pay more in income tax when he made a dollar that year. He couldn’t even be bothered to look up Elon’s income.

He says things so his plebes will clap without realizing it isn’t an intelligent or viable solution.

Zombiepirate ,
@Zombiepirate@lemmy.world avatar

What I have said is the tax system should be fair.

By reducing the amount that the people who benefit most (by orders of magnitude) from our society pay into it. Yeah. That sure sounds fair to me.

What an intelligent and viable solution!

wintermute_oregon ,

I have never suggested that. Nice Strawman you built there!

Zombiepirate , (edited )
@Zombiepirate@lemmy.world avatar

You say that all the time.

Nice lie.

wintermute_oregon ,

The rich already pay more than their fair taxes. If you have a cite to show otherwise, I would love to see it.

taxfoundation.org/…/rich-pay-their-fair-share-of-…

As this chart shows, The top 1% pay 40% of all taxes but only bring in 20% of the income. That is paying their fair share.

The top 5% pay 20% of the taxes but only bring in 15% of the income.

So yes, I deserve a tax cut, and most likely, you deserve a tax increase.

Zombiepirate ,
@Zombiepirate@lemmy.world avatar

Wait, I thought you never said that?

That paper ignores people’s capacity to pay.

Even the Bible recognizes that a poor widow’s mite is a bigger ask than a wealthy person’s contribution of a larger portion of their income. That was written two thousand years ago, but somehow conservatives still haven’t come to the same obvious conclusion.

Our society is specifically set up to funnel money to oligarchs, and then they cry about having to contribute to that system? Boo fucking hoo.

wintermute_oregon ,

Why are you quoting the bible? The bible also says I shouldn’t eat shellfish. Leave your sky God out of the discussion.

That paper ignores people’s capacity to pay.

People need to be responsible for their finances. The answer isn’t to make other people pay your way in life. As California and New York learned, people will leave and their budgets are wrecked.

Zombiepirate , (edited )
@Zombiepirate@lemmy.world avatar

If you actually read what I wrote you’d understand my point.

Nothing you said to me is a response to my post.

Try again.

Your peacocking value judgement is adorable, but irrelevant.

wintermute_oregon ,

No, it answers what you said but you choose to think otherwise.

I will make it simple for you.

Elon typically earns 1 dollar per year.

How much should he pay in taxes on that 1 dollar?

Your point is invalid. High-income earners already pay more in taxes, not only as a percentage but also as a total of their income.

You don’t see the irony in wanting others to pay more but not wanting to pay more yourself.

Zombiepirate ,
@Zombiepirate@lemmy.world avatar

I will make it simple for you.

Elon typically earns 1 dollar per year.

How much should he pay in taxes on that 1 dollar?

And I’ll add back in the context that you’re desperate to jettison.

Let’s look at a situation that resembles the real world:

Elon Musk earns about $1.5 billion dollars/year with an estimated net worth of about $150 billion.

The median American income is about $70k/year with an estimated net worth of $193k

Musk should be taxed at 90% like we did for top earners during the biggest economic expansion in our nation’s history.

Your point is invalid. High-income earners already pay more in taxes, not only as a percentage but also as a total of their income.

And that wasn’t my point; you’re trying to change the argument because you know you’re wrong.

You don’t see the irony in wanting others to pay more but not wanting to pay more yourself.

I would love for you to point out where I said I wouldn’t be willing to pay more in taxes. This accusation is a confession, it seems.

wintermute_oregon ,

Elon Musk earns about $1.5 billion dollars/year with an estimated net worth of about $150 billion.

False. Elon does not earn $1.5 billion a year. That is not his income. His net worth has nothing to do with his income.

Musk should be taxed at 90% like we did for top earners during the biggest economic expansion in our nation’s history.

That is also false. Income was taxed at 90%, not wealth. We have never taxed wealth because it is unconstitutional. Also, the tax code was very different back then, and only 1 person ever paid that level of tax. People had many more deductions than they do now.

And that wasn’t my point; you’re trying to change the argument because you know you’re wrong. No, I am right, as you demonstrated here that you don’t know the difference between income, wealth, and even how taxes have worked historically.

I would love for you to point out where I said I wouldn’t be willing to pay more in taxes. This accusation is a confession, it seems.

How much more do you think your tax bracket should pay to keep the current rates for all the other brackets?

Zombiepirate ,
@Zombiepirate@lemmy.world avatar

I’m done pretending you’re a serious person arguing seriously.

Anyone can say “nuh-uh.”

I also never said wealth was taxed. I said his income should be taxed (in response to your question).

You’re misrepresenting my argument at every step like you always do. Your sealion question at the end is irrelevant; you have no idea how much I earn, and I’m not here to impress Internet strangers like you seem to be. Bet you’re real close to that billion though if you keep grinding!

Bet it burns you up that you can’t ban me from here.

wintermute_oregon ,

I also never said wealth was taxed. I said his income should be taxed (in response to your question). then why did you bring up Elon’s wealth?

You’re misrepresenting my argument at every step like you always do.

Then, be more clear. Don’t blame me because you can’t articulate your thoughts well. You are talking about wealth but claim you are not talking about wealth. Elon does not earn $1.5 billion per year. That is factually inaccurate.

Your sealion question at the end is irrelevant; you have no idea how much I earn, and I’m not here to impress Internet strangers like you seem to be. You said you would pay more but when asked, it’s now sealioning? Never asked how much you earned. I asked how much more your bracket should pay since you said you would pay more.

Bet you’re real close to that billion though if you keep grinding! Not even close and not even a goal of mine.

Bet it burns you up that you can’t ban me from here. It’s so weird you try to turn everything personal instead of having a discussion. Instead of trying to talk about me, why not engage in the discussion?

Zombiepirate ,
@Zombiepirate@lemmy.world avatar

Funny how you’re always the only one who has trouble understanding me.

wintermute_oregon ,

That isn’t true at all.

So can you back up any of your claims like Elon makes 1.5 billion a year in income or are we just done for now?

Zombiepirate ,
@Zombiepirate@lemmy.world avatar

If I did would it change your mind?

If not, why should I bother? This isn’t germaine, it’s a distraction because you don’t want to argue the actual point.

wintermute_oregon ,

Stop trying to turn this into a discussion about me. I am acting in good faith.

You can’t just make a claim and then refuse to back it while trying to have a real discussion.

You will see someone else brought up loans, and I agree that is an issue. That is why the ultra-wealthy can avoid taxes, and that is a problem we can solve without violating the Constitution.

Zombiepirate ,
@Zombiepirate@lemmy.world avatar

Would it change your mind?

If not, it’s irrelevant. So why are you so hung up on that?

You’re playing games because you don’t want to discuss the actual issue.

Fair enough, I understand you’ll lose the debate.

wintermute_oregon ,

Why do you keep avoiding the topic?

You made a claim that Elon is making $1.5 billion in income. If it wasn’t important then why did you bring it up?

Anyway, I will chalk this up to you not understanding income, wealth, and taxes.

If you want to have a serious discussion, come back with some actual cites for your claim to discuss.

Zombiepirate ,
@Zombiepirate@lemmy.world avatar

Why do you keep avoiding the topic?

The irony burns

TheKMAP ,

“buy borrow die” is totally income, dude. It’s just not taxed, and step-up basis makes it worse.

The net worth is used to fund everyday expenses, it is effectively income.

wintermute_oregon ,

“buy borrow die” is totally income, dude. It is not income under the law but I have no issues taxing it as income or preventing the practice.

If Bernie wasn’t so dumb, that is where he would focus his angst. I suspect few people really understand that is how Elon supports himself through loans and not income.

One day, those loans have to be called, but until then, there is no income.

TheKMAP ,

I wouldn’t be surprised if those loans are repaid without realizing the gain of the collateral. Step-up basis is a huge tax dodge, and tax dodge is theft from all the people who would benefit from the things those taxes could pay for.

The way the rich use loans as income is unfair. Therefore the rich do not pay their fair share.

wintermute_oregon ,

It would be interesting to see how many of the rich are using loans to bypass taxes.

I have only heard of a few cases dealing with tech wealthy people who are paid mainly in stock.

I do think it is an issue and something should be done about it.

It is a fallout from being a public company and we can regulate that much easier.

I think our whole tax system needs to be burned down and replaced.

TheKMAP ,

If you agree the system is broken I encourage you to reconsider your prior statements about the rich not paying their fair share.

Rich people do a variety of shady stuff and keep it hidden (Panama papers), I wouldn’t trust your lack of data points to mean it isn’t a pervasive problem.

wintermute_oregon ,

That’s moving the goalpost.

The pay their fair share of income tax.

The issue is there is a way to avoid income.

That’s the problem we need to solve. Technically they’re taking on debt to avoid taxes. Sounds reasonable but those are loans we couldn’t get. It’s just a tax avoidance system.

sandman ,

The rich already pay more than their fair taxes.

Yeah. Don’t listen to this guy.

wintermute_oregon ,

Can you show otherwise?

sandman ,

It really boils down to this: why would you go to bat for people who have more than you? They only get more by taking in more than they put out. This is called “maximizing profit.”

At every turn, the people you’re defending do not say “Neuromancer pays his fair share of x.” They always look for ways to get you to pay the absolute most that you are willing and able.

It does not make sense for people like you to say millionaires “pay their fair share” when they only become wealthy due to exploitation of everyone else who has to work for a living.

The fact this needs to be explained to you really shows how unaware you are of the world you live in. If you’re over the age of 18 and you still haven’t figured these basic facts out, that means you’re being taken advantage of left and right without even realizing it.

“A fool and his money are soon parted.”

wintermute_oregon ,

It really boils down to this: why would you go to bat for people who have more than you? Because someone always has more than someone else. Unless you are number one, someone always has more than you do. A fair society is not one that punishes the successful people. You make sure the system is fair.

It does not make sense for people like you to say millionaires “pay their fair share” when they only become wealthy due to exploitation of everyone else who has to work for a living.

I don’t buy that at all. Going to work is not being exploited. I go to work every day, and I am not exploited. I am paid fairly for the work I do.

If you’re over the age of 18 and you still haven’t figured these basic facts out, that means you’re being taken advantage of left and right without even realizing it. Or maybe I am not being taken advantage of. Maybe I am paid fairly for the work I do, and I am happy with my pay. the only thing I am unhappy about is having to pay more than my fair share of taxes for people who don’t want to pay their fair share.

sandman ,

and he has no clue how the economy works

That’s the thing. He knows how the economy ‘works’, it’s just that it works for the ruling class and not for everyone else.

Guess what? The only way to reduce the disparity in wealth is to reduce the disparity in wealth. This means those who have too much will get angry because they have less so others can have more.

wintermute_oregon ,

No, Bernie has shown time and time again that he doesn’t understand how anything works.

forbes.com/…/senator-bernie-sanders-doesnt-unders…

reason.com/…/the-economic-ignorance-of-bernie-san…

marketwatch.com/…/bernie-sanders-biggest-weakness…

Can you find anyone that says Bernie understands economics?

sandman ,

Sorry, I’ve already replied to you explaining basic economics.

You’re the one who doesn’t understand, and linking sensationalist blogs doesn’t help your credibility one iota.

wintermute_oregon ,

You didn’t cite anything. When called out, you make a personal attack?

anticolonialist ,

He was a sheepdog who’s job was to keep disenfranchised voters rounded up in the party with illusions of having a seat at the table.

LesserAbe ,

Dad

Monument , (edited )

Wow, he really slammed him.

Joking aside, I really appreciate that Bernie is speaking up. (And to a lesser extent that the headline doesn’t fall back to that overused descriptor.)

FenrirIII ,
@FenrirIII@lemmy.world avatar

“Bernie Slaps Netanyahu Like a Bitch”

Monument ,

I’m not saying I wouldn’t have mixed feelings about it, but I don’t think I’d have reservations about a politician that put on a luchador mask or dressed up like an 80’s wrestler and said the right things in absolutely batshit ways during press junkets and campaign appearances. And then, obviously, did those things in non-batshit ways while on the clock.

Saturday night: “I’m gonna slap Netanyahu like a bitch!”
Monday morning: “I’ve introduced legislation to suspend all military aid and arms sales to Israel immediately. Resumption of aid and/or arms sales is contingent upon the outcome of the ICJ war crimes investigation.”

barsoap ,

and said the right things in absolutely batshit ways during press junkets and campaign appearances.

I want Juncker back.

CanadaPlus ,

So left-wing Boris Johnson, basically?

SwingingTheLamp ,

Or Jesse Ventura.

Fedizen ,

“Bernie verbally drop-kicks Netanyahu”

Hegar ,
@Hegar@kbin.social avatar

calling antisemitism “a vile and disgusting form of bigotry that has done unspeakable harm to many millions of people”.

“But, please, do not insult the intelligence of the American people by attempting to distract us from the immoral and illegal war policies of your extremist and racist government. Do not use antisemitism to deflect attention from the criminal indictment you are facing in the Israeli courts. It is not antisemitic to hold you accountable for your actions,”

intrepid ,

Sadly a very common and favorite strategy of genocidal autocratic regimes across the world.

nforminvasion ,

It is always in the favor of states to not only claim to support their people, and even represent them, but to encapsulate their identity. Authoritarian after authoritarian has learned this.

Criticize the CCP , you’re a sinophobe. Criticize the Iranian or Saudi governmenta and you are demonstrating Islamophobia and antiarabic prejudice. Now with Israel. Plenty have done and it damn works, that’s the worst part.

intrepid ,

Yes. Exactly.

Hobbes ,

This man should have been president. Fuck Hillary and the DNC.

Stovetop ,

But it was her turn!

autotldr Bot ,

This is the best summary I could come up with:

Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders is pushing back after Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu accused US college students protesting against the war in Gaza of being antisemitic.

On Wednesday, Netanyahu’s office released a video of the US-born Israeli leader attacking the student-led protests that have taken over campus spaces at numerous universities.

Senator Sanders — one of America’s highest-profile Jewish lawmakers — responded in a statement on Thursday in which he directly refuted Netanyahu’s accusations and addressed him by name.

It is not antisemitic to point out that your bombing has completely destroyed more than 221,000 housing units in Gaza, leaving more than one million people homeless – almost half the population,” Mr Sanders said.

Sanders closed the statement by again addressing the Israeli leader directly and calling antisemitism “a vile and disgusting form of bigotry that has done unspeakable harm to many millions of people”.

US House Speaker Mike Johnson echoed Netanyahu’s criticisms during a visit to Columbia on Wednesday, where he was greeted with a chorus of boos from gathered demonstrators.

The original article contains 580 words, the summary contains 172 words. Saved 70%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!

return2ozma OP ,
@return2ozma@lemmy.world avatar

Bernie Sanders video message to Netanyahu: youtu.be/vzhdPsCgrjU

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