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BombOmOm ,
@BombOmOm@lemmy.world avatar

The biggest thing F-16 will provide to Ukraine is the fact it has been integrated with so many different weapons already. Almost any western nation can just ship their weird domestic flavor missile and there is a damn good chance it will just work with the F-16.

Why? Because F-16 was so highly produced and so cheap that almost every western country owns F-16 and has integrated their weapons with it already.

Buelldozer ,
@Buelldozer@lemmy.today avatar

I agree with you. The F-16’s primary value to Ukraine will be as a fully NATO integrated missile truck.

A dogfight or three will inevitably occur but they’ll be a “Wrong Place / Wrong Time” happenstance rather than designated Air Combat scenarios.

Altofaltception ,

Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, and Belgium will be sending their F16s to Ukraine. I guess that means they’ll need to replenish their fleet by buying new American jets.

filoria ,

F-35s are absurdly expensive compared to F-16s though

BombOmOm ,
@BombOmOm@lemmy.world avatar

They are also incredibly more capable.

Most militaries are going with a mix of F-35 for their capability as well as cheaper aircraft or high-capability drones for the sheer volume. Both have their place.

filoria ,

maintenance cost on F-35s are sort of absurd

tbh I’m not convinced that high-maintenance stealth aircraft will have a role in modern conflicts. The Russia-Ukraine war is highlighting the issues with over engineered Western weapons in sustained conflict. If you don’t dominate the opponent logistically, they’re impractical.

NoiseColor ,

Ukraine is using a limited amount of relatively old western weapons. The atacams it got are 30 years old and only cluster ones. If it got a fair amount of the normal ones, that are already all but deprecated in USA, that alone would be somewhat of a game changer. There is nothing wrong with over-engineered weapons.

I’m trying to picture any other sustained conflict with western weapons and nothing comes to mind.

NuXCOM_90Percent ,

Maintenance for the f16 is far from zero and a lot of the components are made with very outdated processes.

I assume the adjusted for inflation cost is still higher. But there are reasons countries are upgrading even if the f35 is of questionable value

partial_accumen , (edited )

The Russia-Ukraine war is highlighting the issues with over engineered Western weapons in sustained conflict. If you don’t dominate the opponent logistically, they’re impractical.

Thats an odd take considering a relatively small number of western weapons in the hands of talented Ukrainian defenders are holding back the entire stockpile of Soviet weapons designed to conquer Europe. If anything its highlighting the “over engineering” for survivability is allowing the much smaller Ukrainian army to win against the alternative of simple Soviet designs en mass.

I will point how however that the USA isn’t using F-35 exclusively, but also F-15EX which is much cheaper. They compliment each other well for their suited goals.

kerrigan778 ,

Your enemies logistics are irrelevant if you can precisely bomb their logistics lines with impunity with stealth air dominance. The Ukraine-Russia war is very different from a conflict involving tier 1 militaries. Neither side is capable of dominating the air. US/NATO war doctrine is air dominance on day one.

Buelldozer , (edited )
@Buelldozer@lemmy.today avatar

tbh I’m not convinced that high-maintenance stealth aircraft will have a role in modern conflicts.

A take so hot that it can only be handled with high energy magnetic fields! If nothing else the United States, China, and Russia disagree with you as all three have built and are fielding such aircraft.

jimbolauski ,

F35 matience cost is ~2x of an F16. They are not out of control like the f22.

Cornelius_Wangenheim ,

They’re sending them because they already have new F-35s.

AntonyLebion ,
@AntonyLebion@futurology.today avatar

Future scrap for Russia

anavrinman ,

The same Russia that lost five planes last week to a country without an Air Force, or the Russia that lost 20% of it’s black sea fleet to a country without a navy?

Vilian ,

also the one that lost 87% of it’s troops to a “3 day millitary operation”?

tsonfeir ,
@tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

game-changing

What game are we playing now?

auroraborealiz ,

Another “game-changer”?

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