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TIL kobolds in Japan are dog-people because of a mistranslation in a copy of AD&D in the 80s

I was reading about Dungeon Meshi and Kuro, the “kobold”.

Kobolds are usually depicted as canine humanoids in Japanese media compared to the more reptilian humanoids that kobolds are depicted as in western media[4] such as Dungeons and Dragons. The reason for this is credited as either a mistranslation of the first Dungeons and Dragons Monster Manual[5] or because of the lack of reference art in said Monster Manual, but a picture of a jackalwere being present on the opposite page[6], which was then used as reference art for the anime, The Record of the Lodoss War. That anime is credited for solidifying the trope of canine kobolds in Japanese media.

From delicious-in-dungeon.fandom.com/wiki/Kobolds#cite…

And the supporting youtube video m.youtube.com/shorts/rUntTZ6spOc

Bonus fact: piglike orcs.

Neb ,

Hm. The source for this is a vtubers YouTube short?

momocchi ,

The most reliable source there is

ByteOnBikes OP ,

It smelled fishy when I posted it but honestly, I’m dumb as a doorknob to dig deeper and didn’t know how to start this convo on fantasy races.

tiredofsametab ,

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%B3%E3%83%9C%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88 seems to have a bit of a different approach stating that D&D 3rd ed. changed them to be more reptilian. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobold actually seems to corroborate this. I played D&D since the end of the 1st ed. days and I think of them as kinda dog-like heads that were also scaly. I have a 2nd ed. Monstrous Manual, but it's on the other side of the world at the moment so I can't check.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Kobold

https://adnd2e.fandom.com/wiki/Kobold_(Creature)

I'm not buying the OP here.

DarkThoughts ,

Anyone with an original copy of the western version should be able to easily confirm this, no?

wjrii ,

My only real experience with them is from Pool of Radiance, the first “gold box” CRPG. They were pretty dog-like in that.

tiredofsametab ,

I had so many of the SSI gold)silver box titles. Death Knights of Krynn was my first IIRC

ByteOnBikes OP ,

I hate to ask: can you update the fandom with your research?

delicious-in-dungeon.fandom.com/wiki/Kobolds

I don’t know enough about this topic and Im really enjoying learning all of this!

Annoyed_Crabby ,

Huh, TIL Kobold is lizard people in D&D. My knowledge of kobold is first via Ragnarok Online, it’s a game by South Korean company and it’s depict it as dog-people. Since then i didn’t see it depict as anything else.

Blackmist ,

I’m still not sure what the fuck they were supposed to be in WoW, I just know you no take candle.

Annoyed_Crabby ,

Ohh, totally forgot about Blizzard’s kobold, i always assume they’re also dog-people but then i got confused with Gnoll. Apparently Kobold in Warcraft is rat-people lol.

cashmaggot ,

I am a mixed goober, and always figured they were dogs. But also have only played D&D collectively twice in my life (and then the pandemic happened). So I only know them from fantasy stuff. One of which being Age of Wonders, which I played with a friend at one point in my life. And was confused as to why the dog guys were little gremlins. Also watched Lodoss Wars as a kid, but don't really remember it. I'm not sure how a->b but I always assumed they were dog folk.

cikano ,

They were more doglike in 1e and 2e of D&D, so I don’t think it’s a mistranslation

Pooptimist ,

Where I live (a German speaking country) a kobold is more like a small humanoid being, more like a gnome

raef , (edited )

American, but I also think of them as like blue, spiky icy imps. I’m not sure where I got it, but seems like a Nintendo era RPG, maybe Final Fantasy

ameancow ,

Pretty sure they are germanic in origin, but I would have to double check.

Originally, in the middle ages miners experienced toxic gasses and other weird effects while mining iron, such as ore exploding when smelting. They attributed some of the problems to mischievous creatures they would call Kobolds hiding in the mines.

It was eventually discovered that these problems were caused by another whole element creating impurities in the ore, when separated and identified, it came to be known as Cobalt.

Wizard_Pope ,
@Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world avatar

Isn’t Kobold basically just German for goblins and gremlins and the like?

derbolle ,

that explains the kobold enemy from quest64. that one confused me for ages

Stovetop ,

I don’t know if the “reptilian” description applies to all Western media. I think it might just be D&D, as I was always used to seeing dog-like Kobolds in EverQuest and rat-like Kobolds in World of Warcraft.

CitizenKong ,

In Germanic folklore, kobolds just look like small people that are often also depicted as being green and having large ears. They are spirits of the home and sometimes benevolent and sometimes mischievous.

janus2 ,
@janus2@lemmy.zip avatar

also the spirits of mines that are sometimes benevolent and sometimes malevolent
cobalt is named after them because it was a toxic ore seen as a contaminant that caused injury and death to miners

carl_dungeon ,

Accidental Death & Dismemberment?

computergeek125 ,

Advanced Dungeons and Dragons - one of the early editions of the book
en.wikipedia.org/…/Editions_of_Dungeons_%26_Drago…

carl_dungeon ,

Thanks! I didn’t get into D&D until 5e so I’m light on some of the lore :)

jawa21 ,
@jawa21@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

I was exposed to them as dog like humanoids in EverQuest before I had ever known about them in D&D even though I had played D&D prior, so when I learned they are actually lizard/dragon like I was confused.

Plopp ,

Bottom right, isn’t that the wolf that ate grandma?

tyrefyre ,

I don’t know your grandma’s boyfriends but she sounds pretty wild

Mnemnosyne ,

It’s not a mistranslation that caused it, kobolds were both described and illustrated as doglike until 3rd Edition where with no explanation they simply changed it and decided they were lizard like/draconic.

I do think the new version of kobolds is an interesting creature, but truthfully they should’ve just come up with a new name for this new creature instead of just completely changing the kobold.

all-knight-party ,
@all-knight-party@kbin.run avatar

Should've just named the new ones drakobolds

Rhynoplaz ,

Yeah. I’ve never really been sure what a Kobold was. My friend had an older monster manual that showed it as a chubby beady eyed goblin, while mine had a little rat man, and then I get back into the game a few decades later, and kobolds are now little dragons.

xwolpertinger ,

Kobolds are originally just the “small folk” of German mythology with all of them being gnome-like but with varying degrees of hospitality. That’s why you get your mine Kobolds, your Heinzelmännchen and your Klabautermann.

Bonus fact: Dog like Kobolds in DnD derived media are not exclusive to Japan, in the Everquest lore they are also dog like (and a bit hyena like, whereas gnolls here are fully canine)

FrostyCaveman ,

I first heard of Kobolds in the PC game Age of Wonders. They were depicted as scrawny little goblin like creatures who lived in Orcish garbage piles. They had glowing green eyes. Certainly not doglike.

Plus they had a poison melee attack. Respect for those little resource reclamation engineer dudes

ByteOnBikes OP ,

That’s where my mind goes when I think of kobold.

Like, the halfling of Orcs. And yes to poison attacks for some reason!

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