Microsoft is bringing annoying Windows 11 Start menu ads to Windows 10

mox , 4 hours ago

🐧

tabular , 4 hours ago

🐃+🐧 🤓

communism , 4 hours ago

uses busybox so I can um actually your um actually

mox , 12 minutes ago

lol… apparently 4chan has entered the chat.

mox , 2 hours ago

Some advice for anyone who is seriously considering a move away from Windows:

• Set your expectations appropriately. Linux is not a drop-in replacement for Windows. IMHO, it shouldn’t be.
• Some things that you take for granted are not universal. Much like a new language (especially your second one) even the basics are often different.
• There is a lot to learn. If you have the patience and humility to be in kindergarten again, you’ll probably do fine. If you expect to be a master quickly, you’ll probably get frustrated.
• You don’t have to tackle the whole learning curve all at once.
• A few notable Windows programs won’t run on Linux. If you have very rigid and specific software needs, like “Photoshop is the only tool that I can use to make a living”, you might consider running those in a virtual machine, or on a second system, or dual-booting. If that’s too complicated for you, then you probably shouldn’t try to force yourself into Linux. Maybe try again in a few years.
• There is more than one GUI (desktop environment) for Linux. Some look a bit like Windows. Some look more like MacOS. Others look like something you’ve never seen before. You can test drive many of them by booting from a USB “live image”. In case none of them feels quite right, most can be customized. To get started, just pick one, and know that you’re not married to it; you can always switch desktops later, without even reinstalling the OS. Your applications will still run.
• Investigate hardware before leaping into it. Linux supports a great many devices out of the box, and even more with a bit of configuration. If you have the means, you can buy a system pre-packaged for Linux, including drivers, just as most systems are for Windows. If not, chances are that you can still find or build a system that runs it well. Plan ahead.

For reference, there’s a lot of diversity among people running Linux, from software developers to secretaries, from children to octogenarians. I imagine it’s easier for kids, since they don’t have as much to un-learn, but the Grandparents in my family switched to it from Windows and didn’t want to go back. If they can do it, I think it’s fair to say that many others can, too.

mouth_brood , 1 hour ago

I think it’s now overstated how “different” Linux is. I switched to Mint about a year ago and there is basically zero learning curve right out the box.

atrielienz , 1 hour ago

This is the most sane run down I’ve seen on Lemmy in regards to Linux. Thank you for this.

Boozilla , 6 hours ago

ShutUp10 for the win.

(Linux for the real win).

BearOfaTime , 5 hours ago

Shutup10 for sure.

Linux, nah. It still can’t do what we need it to do, so it’s not the proper tool for the job.

Boozilla , 4 hours ago

Chicken and egg. Linux is roughly 4% of the OS space. If more people would get on board, it would become a better tool. I use both. Windows because I have to. Linux because I want to.

BearOfaTime , 4 hours ago

Linux missed the mark years ago. It’s not a lack of people using it, it’s a lack of usability for people. You’re blaming users because Linux doesn’t work for them.

My standard response to “just go Linux” :

I keep having to say this, as much as I like Linux for certain things, as a desktop it’s still no competition to Windows, even with this awful shit going on.

As some background - I wrote my first Fortran program on a Sperry Rand Univac (punched cards) in about 1985. Cobol was immediately after Fortran (wish I’d stuck with Cobol).

I had my first UNIX class in about 1990.

I run a Mint laptop (for the hell of it, and I do mean hell) . Update: stopped running Mint on that laptop, it’ll never be viable for the intended use-case. Power management is a joke. Configured as best as possible, walked in the other day and it was dead - as in battery at zero, won’t even boot.

Windows would never do this, no, Windows can never do this. It is incapable of running a battery to zero, it’ll shutoff before then to protect the battery. To really kill it you have to boot to BIOS and let it sit, Windows simply will not let a battery get to zero.

There’s no way even possible via the Mint GUI to config power management for things like low/critical battery conditions /actions. None, nada, zip, not at all. Command line only, in the twenty-first century, something Windows has had since I don’t recall, 95 I think (I was carrying a laptop then, and I believe it had hibernate, sorry, it’s been what, almost thirty years now).

There are many reasons why Linux doesn’t compete with Windows on the desktop - this is just one glaring one.

Now let’s look at Office. Open an Excel spreadsheet with tables in any app other than excel. Tables are something that’s just a given in excel, takes 10 seconds to setup, and you get automatic sorting and filtering, with near-zero effort. The devs of open office refuse to support tables, saying “you should manage data in a proper database app”. While I don’t disagree with the sentiment, no, I’m not setting up a DB in an open-source competitor to Access. That’s just too much effort for simple sorting and filtering tasks, and isn’t realistically shareable with other people. I do this several times a day in excel.

Now there’s that print monitor that’s on by default, and can only be shut up by using a command line. Wtf? Again, in the 21st century?

Networking… Yea, samba works, but how do you clear creds you used one time to connect to a share, even though you didn’t say “save creds”? Oh, yea, command line again or go download an app to clear them for for you. In the 21st century?

Oh, you have a wireless Logitech mouse? Linux won’t even recognize it. You have to search for a solution and go find a third-party download that makes it work. My brand new wireless mouse works on any version of Windows since Win2k (at the least) and would probably work on Win95.

Someone else said it better than me:

Every time I’ve installed Linux as my main OS (many, many times since I was younger), it gets to an eventual point where every single thing I want to do requires googling around to figure out problems. While it’s gotten much better, I always ended up reinstalling Windows or using my work Mac. Like one day I turn it on and the monitor doesn’t look right. So I installed twenty things, run some arbitrary collection of commands, and it works… only it doesn’t save my preferences.

So then I need to dig into .bashrc or .bash_profile (is bashrc even running? Hey let me investigate that first for 45 minutes) and get the command to run automatically… but that doesn’t work, so now I can’t boot… so I have to research (on my phone now, since the machine deathscreens me once the OS tries to load) how to fix that… then I am writing config lines for my specific monitor so it can access the native resolution… wait, does the config delimit by spaces, or by tabs?? anyway, it’s been four hours, it’s 3:00am and I’m like Bryan Cranston in that clip from Malcolm in the Middle where he has a car engine up in the air all because he tried to change a lightbulb.

And then I get a new monitor, and it happens all damn over again. Oh shit, I got a new mouse too, and the drivers aren’t supported - great! I finally made it to Friday night and now that I have 12 minutes away from my insane 16 month old, I can’t wait to search for some drivers so I can get the cursor acceleration disabled. Or enabled. Or configured? What was I even trying to do again? What led me to this?

I just can’t do it anymore. People who understand it more than I will downvote and call me an idiot, but you can all kiss my ass because I refuse to do the computing equivalent of building a radio out of coconuts on a deserted island of ancient Linux forum posts because I want to have Spotify open on startup EVERY time and not just one time. I have tried to get into Linux as a main dev environment since 1997 and I’ve loved/liked/loathed it, in that order, every single time.

I respect the shit out of the many people who are far, far smarter than me who a) built this stuff, and 2) spend their free time making Windows/Mac stuff work on a Linux environment, but the part of me who liked to experiment with Linux has been shot and killed and left to rot in a ditch along the interstate.

Now I love Linux for my services: Proxmox, UnRAID, TrueNAS, containers for Syncthing, PiHole, Owncloud/NextCloud, CasaOS/Yuno, etc, etc. I even run a few Windows VM’s on Linux (Proxmox) because that’s better than running Linux VM’s on a Windows server.

Linux is brilliant for this stuff. Just not brilliant for a desktop, let alone in a business environment.

Linux doesn’t even use a common shell (which is a good thing in it’s own way), and that’s a massive barrier for users.

If it were 40 years ago, maybe Linux would’ve had a chance to beat MS, even then it would’ve required settling on a single GUI (which is arguably half of why Windows became a standard, the other half being a common API), a common build (so the same tools/utilities are always available), and a commitment to put usability for the inexperienced user first.

These are what MS did in the 1980’s to make Windows attractive to the 3 groups who contend with desktops: developers, business management, end users.

All this without considering the systems management requirements of even an SMB with perhaps a dozen users (let alone an enterprise with tens of thousands).

Kongar , 4 hours ago

You must be fun at parties

Lost_My_Mind , 4 hours ago

I was going to write a reply to that guy about how linux doesn’t work for the common man, but then you come in and write shakespear level articulation that blows away my tiny brain cell reply.

It’s just such a complete analysis of the situation. The only thing missing is how linux requires you to use the terminal. Yes, REQUIRES. People can say it doesn’t all they want, but go on any self help guide, and any problem you have, is “step 1, open terminal”.

What would you say to someone who doesn’t know what terminal is?

“Ok, open terminal?”

“Whats that?”

“Its like a command line, but better”

“Whats a command line?”

And this is why 96% of people AREN’T using linux. Most windows users don’t understand how windows works. Most drivers don’t understand how cars work. And linux you HAVE TO be a mechanic to use linux. Because unlike windows and mac, linux isn’t designed to be used by idiots. And most of the world are idiots. Hell, I’m an idiot.

And until linux can fix itself FOR the user, no user will even take a look. Even if there were a single distro that did all that, you’d have to convince people “this linux isn’t like the other linux”. It’s the main reason that even though Android is linux, it stays far far away from that branding. It doesn’t want the linux stink.

And from what I’ve seen, every developer WANTS linux to be hard to use. Like a right of passage. “I had to endure these learning curves, and so shall you!”

obbeel , 2 hours ago

That’s a marketing problem, not a functionality problem. The terminal isn’t really hard to use.

People used BASIC easily back in the 80’s. My mom did it back then, and she isn’t tech savvy.

Lost_My_Mind , 1 hour ago

The terminal isn’t really hard to use.

I’ve been trying to learn it for 15 years. The only thing I’ve learned is that sudo stands for super user. Outside of that, I’ve learned nothing about how to use terminal other than copy/pasting other peoples commands.

obbeel , 1 hour ago

For most cases, you need to use the package manager (apt is the standard for Debian-based) . You also need ‘grep’ to select a specific phrase sometimes.

But that problem normally occur when you are using proprietary software. You’ll need to download packages (wget), add repository packages and run shell scripts for most proprietary software, and I think most people would use copy-paste in those scenarios.

Lost_My_Mind , 1 hour ago

…do what now?

aniki , 56 minutes ago

If you’ve been unable to learn some basic command line in 15 years perhaps computing is not your forte.

ParetoOptimalDev , 3 hours ago

It sounds like many of your problems could be fixed by installing kde plasma6 instead.

coolkicks , 3 hours ago

I think this supports his argument. Having to research desktop environments to decide which is optimized for the potential problems a new user may face, then finding a distro that packages that DE is quite frankly too much for the average user.

I’d argue between 3% and 5% of PC users are willing to research and experiment to find the flavor of Linux that truly works for them.

Linux has come a long way, I still remember using Gentoo as a daily driver and seeing Linux cross 1% of desktop share, but the average desktop user doesn’t know the difference between a kernel and a colonel, and they don’t want to.

vinnymac , 2 hours ago

Nah, completely wrong take.

Linux can be adapted to fit any use case you have, and that’s an important part of its flexibility. What you really are getting at is that mass producing a machine with an OS built into it is convenient for consumers. See Android phones or Steam decks for evidence of this convenience being important to the sale of Linux based devices.

In the not too distant future, windows will go out of fashion for the home desktop PC. Someone will sell a cheap and cool arm based PC with a decent distribution. It will be a slow win, nothing like what we saw from macOS.

Lost_My_Mind , 1 hour ago

In the not too distant future, windows will go out of fashion for the home desktop PC.

Linux has 4% of the pc market. This is an all time high. The fact that you think linux is a threat in any meaningful way tells me that you’re either too stubborn or too stupid to see why linux as it stands today will never even reach 10% of the market ever, let alone become the dominant platform.

Windows could become a yearly subscription at $500 per year, and linux would struggle to reach 6%.

mox , 2 hours ago (edited 2 hours ago)

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. For what it’s worth, I haven’t run into laptop problems like those you described.

You’ve reminded me that people who declare “linux isn’t ready” often make the same mistakes:

• Expecting Linux to work 100%, with no effort, on random hardware that was built specifically for Windows.
• Expecting random google results to yield good guidance on a subject that’s well understood by a tiny fraction of those who know Windows. The web is an ocean of bad advice (but there are some worthwhile islands).
• Expecting to be able to manage any new operating system as well as the one you’ve been running your life with for decades.

Proficiency with any tool takes practice. More so when you don’t have an abundance of good mentors and pre-packaged solutions for what you want to do with it. That doesn’t make the tool bad. It doesn’t mean it lacks usability. It mostly just means that you haven’t learned how to use it yet.

Edit: Split the rest into a separate comment, since it wasn’t really addressing anyone specific.

Lost_My_Mind , 1 hour ago

Expecting Linux to work 100%, with no effort, on random hardware that was built specifically for Windows.

Thats ALL PCs.

Expecting random google results to yield good guidance on a subject that’s well understood by a tiny fraction of those who know Windows. The web is an ocean of bad advice (but there are some worthwhile islands).

Alright, fair enough. But then within the linux operating system, it should make those islands official sources for quality information. Make them easier to find.

mox , 18 minutes ago

Thats ALL PCs.

Nope. (example)(example)(example)

(And if you don’t like ready-made PCs, you can always build your own.)

Alright, fair enough. But then within the linux operating system, it should make those islands official sources for quality information. Make them easier to find.

Heh. It would be nice to have such things handed to us on a platter, wouldn’t it?

In reality, there is no central organization in a position to speak for the whole linux ecosystem, and a great deal of the work and knowledge comes from unpaid volunteers acting on their own. Standing out from the noise is harder than you might think.

However, there are companies selling direct support, and communities focused on specific topics, and wikis run by some of the most popular linux distributions, and classes, and books, and various other good information sources.

And, even if you have no money to spend, you will eventually come across some of the community-maintained gems just by regularly dedicating time to learning. Finding good info gets easier with practice.

obbeel , 2 hours ago

If you want to run Spotify, Linux really isn’t your thing. Now, aside from Autodesk (I’m not an engineer, but I think FreeCAD doesn’t come close), you can easily use Linux to work. It is much better for programming also. Windows puts so many proprietary barriers into programming that you actually need a minor version of GNU (MinGW) to make C++ work. Want to program something on C#? You should have this proprietary Visual Studio. Wants something for Android? You will need proprietary Android Studio.

The environment is just different. Every thing is built around people expecting to make money out of proprietary software. That’s Windows. It’s built by proprietary for proprietary. It encourages people to put absurd licenses into the most minor of works. “Wants to automatically lowercase a text? Hey, you should be profiting out of that!”. “Wants to automatically copy and paste a text to many boxes? Oh my, you should be profitting out of that, clearly!”.

It’s another environment. Don’t compare Windows as if it were more convenient because for programmers, and for ordinary people in many cases, it certainly isn’t.

That said, I agree that Office 365 is a flagship, but maybe that flagship is sinking.

foofiepie , 2 hours ago

Thoroughly enjoyed this post thanks. I have long wished for a FOSS OS that can truly become popular by considering these users and carving a mainstream path for them. Even - for people who don’t even know what terminal/shell is and don’t care.

OutlierBlue , 5 hours ago

ShutUp10 is the equivalent of being in an abusive relationship and telling yourself “it’ll be okay if I just don’t upset them and stay out of their way”. You know it’ll happen again. You’re just in denial and kicking the ball down the road a bit until they do it again. Use it to buy yourself time to make a plan to get out of the relationship. The sooner you leave, the better off you’ll be.

Kyrgizion , 4 hours ago

Is there a way to pre-emptively block this? Something in hosts.txt? Registry?

The very first day I see those ads in my Win10 will be the day I uninstall Win and go Linux.

Blisterexe , 59 minutes ago

Why wait?

ItsComplicated , 6 hours ago

Microsoft believes if they worsen the enshitification of Windows 10, more people will just upgrade to 11 quicker.

I decided to move to Linux and my other family went with Macbooks.

UnderpantsWeevil , 5 hours ago

Sadly, I’m at a Microsoft office and do not have this option for my work machine.

It does look like I’ll be forced into Linux on my personal machine before too long, though.

pearsaltchocolatebar , 5 hours ago

Lucky for me I only use my windows work laptop to remote into Linux.

curbstickle , 4 hours ago

Similarly, I use my windows work laptop for accessing remote (usually Linux) systems, and a few specific apps that are windows only.

My desktops are Linux (and of course my servers here as well), and I have a windows VM for those tools that are windows only that I need. Which I’ve modified that VM heavily to not have the normal junk from windows.

A recent decision for “security” will require using AAD joined machines only to access email/teams/etc. I was going to make an exception for my machines, then decided against it. My laptop now just sits off to the side, with only teams and outlook running, and its basically all I’ll use it for.

pearsaltchocolatebar , 3 hours ago

Well, I actually use Linux to remote into my work computer, to remote into Linux. I hate using a laptop at my desk, so I just stuck it on the shelf near the router.

aniki , 58 minutes ago

That sucks. I use Ubuntu and SSH into redhat machines.

ItsComplicated , 4 hours ago

Not much to be done with a work machine, but for personal use, I believe the more people moving away from Windows the better.

watson387 , 5 hours ago

This. I mainly keep Windows around on my old laptop for Office development and I don’t need another subscription so won’t pay for 360. I’ll most likely just stop messing with Office and give Windows the boot altogether. Some of my computers already run Linux (mainly Debian). Office and SubtitleEdit have kept my laptop on Windows 10, but fuck getting ads from the OS.

ItsComplicated , 4 hours ago

I can’t stress strongly enough how badly I am opposed to ads.

madcaesar , 1 hour ago

IS THE ENTIRE FUCKING ECONOMY BASED ON ADS??? WHO THE FUCK IS PAYING FOR ALL THESE SHITTY ADS??? WHO EVER YOU ARE, GET FUCKED WITH YOUR PRODUCT!

douglasg14b , 1 hour ago

Yes, literally anyone that wants to sell a product or provide a service relies, to a large degree, on advertising.

It’s been this way for over a century.

ohellidk , 6 hours ago

I just recently installed the windows 11 LTSC IOT enterprise edition, it contains no ads and is meant for corporate use. I got it off of the massgravel Dev site. The only thing pre-installed is the edge browser. Boots way faster and my games are right there. I have it dual-boot alongside Ubuntu. I recommend it if you have to use windows for some programs.

atrielienz , 1 hour ago

This is what I’m planning to go to once my IT department figures out how to implement windows 11 across our systems. We tried a controlled roll. Out and has to roll back to windows 10 because some of the software we use (mandatory) doesn’t work quite right on 11 (menu problems and weird crashes from what I saw -but it’s legacy software from the windows XP times so that’s to be expected, even in compatibility mode). They’re still going to try because the alternative is to pay for the extended support and the company doesn’t want to. I guess we’ll see what happens.

01189998819991197253 , 1 hour ago

If you MUST use windows for work or something, at least install OpenShell. Otherwise, use Linux. It’s so easy to switch for most use cases. Even gaming on Linux has come a very long way.

atrielienz , 1 hour ago

Said like I’m the admin of my work PC. Doesn’t matter though, I’ll have the IT department policy edit this out of existence the same way I did their stupid windows 11 splash page ads.

01189998819991197253 , 1 hour ago

Fair point. I convincing the IT department at the past couple of jobs that I need it for productivity, and they can firewall it if it makes them feel better (I’ll let them know run updates are available, and they can push the update).

szynaptic , 1 hour ago

First, going to say that putting ads into Win10 is bad.

But I also wonder, how many people even use the start menu anymore? I almost never even look at mine. I use it for one thing: to shut down my computer. All of my most used apps are on the quick launch bar or are shortcuts on my desktop.

thermal_shock , 1 hour ago

I hit the win key they start typing immediately if I don’t already have it pinned below, usually rarely run software or control panel

rickdg , 1 hour ago

I can’t believe they’ll put this on windows 10 pro.

thermal_shock , 1 hour ago

that’s what’s kicking me,why would a professional license used primarily for business need ANY kind of advertisement/popup/nag from their OS? fuck off Microsoft

Suavevillain , 1 hour ago

Dang I thought Windows 10 would be safe from this for some reason. Silly me.

thermal_shock , 1 hour ago

no security updates, only ads

iterable , 3 hours ago

Sure if added to Pro version will have a Group Policy to disable them. Really happy I went Pro for Windows 10.

Andromxda , 3 hours ago

Really happy I went Pro for Windows 10 with Linux

iterable , 1 hour ago

Which flavor?

PhAzE , 1 hour ago

If they advertise, then the OS needs to be free. I’m not paying for an OS that profits off me too.

21Cabbage , 1 hour ago

See and my friends give me shit for running KDE, soon they’ll have to click past a Viagra ad to do so.

heavy , 1 hour ago

The fact that people pay hundreds of dollars for this OS to get advertised to is insulting. Same energy as these smart TVs that feel like they have the right to show you ads.

If I’m dictator, I’m making this shit illegal, full stop.

Wiz , 3 hours ago

What’s keeping me running Microsoft? A collection of Steam games that I love. Do they work on Linux now?

the_post_of_tom_joad , 3 hours ago

I’m told many many do thanks in part to the steam deck. I bet if you yelled out your games a Linux user would bite, they’re stocked to the gills here on Lemmy

AlligatorBlizzard , 3 hours ago

🤓 www.protondb.com

the_post_of_tom_joad , 3 hours ago

Hey, this is great, thanks!

Andromxda , 3 hours ago

You can even connect it with your Steam account, and see all the games from your library, as well as statistics (percentage of the games in your library that work, etc.)

asexualchangeling , 2 hours ago

Also www.areweanticheatyet.com for Anticheat games

superkret , 3 hours ago (edited 3 hours ago)

93% of the top 1000 Steam games have a Linux rating of Silver (playable with minor issues) or better.
You can check the rating of your own collection here: www.protondb.com/dashboard

NutWrench , 3 hours ago

My entire Steam library works on Linux Mint.

NutWrench , 2 hours ago

Also, almost every older game, like Deus Ex or Giants: Citizen Kabuto, I can run separately under Wine. The only game that doesn’t quite work is NOLF 1. No music. (I can’t seem to get DirectMusic working properly in Wine yet).

Mildren , 3 hours ago

Converted recently and happy to find that all but one (relatively niche, command: modern operations) game I played work on linux out of the box. Decided that I’d rather claw back control over my computer and switch rather than have a single game working. Haven’t looked back since. Check your library in protondb, it may surprise you.

mox , 2 hours ago

What was that? I couldn’t hear you over the battle in Baldur’s Gate 3. :)