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ColeSloth ,

These will be useless for EV’s, but great for storage. They aren’t energy dense enough for what the EV market needs.

Samsungs solid state EV batteries are currently the only positive step towards EV replacement and production vehicles are set to start rolling out around 2027. They’re supposed to be lighter, last more cycles, charge faster, more energy dense, and safer than current EV liquid lithium batteries.

The sodium ion batteries will be great for large scale solar storage and house/business solar storage. They should let someone build a solar powered house that could continuously run completely off grid without needing to use lithium batteries that would need replaced every 10 to 15 years.

troyunrau ,
@troyunrau@lemmy.ca avatar

Grid storage only. But still cool

mipadaitu ,

More grid storage means more capacity for renewables.

cygnus ,
@cygnus@lemmy.ca avatar

Sodium-ion batteries are gaining attention as a potential alternative to lithium-ion batteries for EVs, mainly due to their cost-effectiveness and abundance of raw materials. Sodium is more readily available and less expensive than lithium, making it an attractive prospect for scaling up EV production.

I don’t know why they said this — they really aren’t a viable alternative for weight-sensitive contexts at all. Their density is only abut 60% that of Li-ion batteries, and that isn’t even getting into solid-state Li batteries which are even more dense. If weight isn’t an issue, like for home or grid backup storage, they’re fine. For cars or bikes, not so much.

ThePantser ,
@ThePantser@lemmy.world avatar

Unless we get to the point where we do battery swaps in cars instead of charging. Just pull the fusion core and pop in a charged one. If we can do it for propane tanks we can do it for cars. Run out of “gas”? Tow company can bring you either a full charge or a smaller battery to get you to the next swap point. Most likely this will start with cross country trucks, the owners can have swap points or drive out a battery for a truck that ran out early.

Fermion ,

Relevant Tom Scott video

macarthur_park ,

The volumetric energy density is 60% of lithium ion batteries, but the energy density per kg is more like 75% since the batteries are lighter. Assuming that scales to the ev range, that’s probably sufficient for a lot of use cases.

cygnus ,
@cygnus@lemmy.ca avatar

I could see it being useful for semi trucks where volume isn’t as much of an issue, especially if the batteries are hanging under the trailer.

ColeSloth ,

Too much weight. Thus far, electric semi trucks aren’t viable outside of shorter range delivery fleets.

ColeSloth ,

EVs are already too heavy and wear tires out quickly. The upcoming solid state batteries are what will go into future EVs. Samsung is producing them right now and they’re currently set to start going in higher end E vehicles in 2027. At best the sodium ion batts may be good for hybrids.

Skua ,

Maybe in the sense that there'd be less competition for the relatively rare materials needed for EV batteries?

partial_accumen ,

I don’t know why they said this — they really aren’t a viable alternative for weight-sensitive contexts at all. Their density is only abut 60% that of Li-ion batteries, and that isn’t even getting into solid-state Li batteries which are even more dense. If weight isn’t an issue, like for home or grid backup storage, they’re fine. For cars or bikes, not so much.

Your explanation is valid for vehicles that have 100% of their battery be something other than Sodium based, and also have a use case that requires long or intermediate range. That isn’t all use cases. Vehicles that drive a lot, but never cover much distance would still be valid use cases for 100% sodium. 100% Sodium Ion powered EVs started rolling off assembly lines in Dec of 2023. Alternatively 100% Sodium Ion could also be for things like fork lifts or Semi trucks that move storage containers from a cargo ship to a storage location within a mile and repeat this trip dozens of times a day.

Other use cases would be where a car has some sodium batteries and some lithium based ones. The sodium batteries could serve most of the “wear and tear” of short trips, with a second smaller lithium back available to augment overall range which is not used as often.

cygnus ,
@cygnus@lemmy.ca avatar

Other use cases would be where a car has some sodium batteries and some lithium based ones. The sodium batteries could serve most of the “wear and tear” of short trips, with a second smaller lithium back available to augment overall range which is not used as often.

This is a neat idea, but wouldn’t solid-state lithium be far, far better for that purpose?

Mihies ,

AFAIK SS lithium have huge price tag, at least for now.

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