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dinckelman , (edited )

I’m okay with paying 30% where the return on investment is worth it. Both the Appstore and Google Play do literally nothing for you, except distribution, and payment processing. These really don’t deserve to take such a big cut, and I don’t really want to hear any more excuses in their favor

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Both the Appstore and Google Play do literally nothing for you, except distribution.

I mean distribution is not “nothing”. They have to maintain the app store, and process payments, and filter (most) malicious software.

It’s just not worth anywhere near 30%, not to mention the flurry of ads all over the place.

At least with Android it’s completely possible to have a third-party app or app store and charge using their own payment processes without ever touching the Google Play store.

Apple is a whole other level of control and anti-competitiveness, and they’ve been profiting off of it for decades with no intervention in sight.

fuckwit_mcbumcrumble ,

30% is more or less the industry standard. Whether it’s a physical store or an online store. They almost all take a 30% cut.

Armok_the_bunny ,

30% is a reasonably cut for transactions that take place in your store, the main complaint I see about Apple and their store and the cut they take is that they want 30% of any money that goes through any of their devices at all, not just their app store. Relevant here, they are charging the 30% fee for people’s memberships to creators on the platform, a process that is wholly separate from Apple’s ecosystem unless the user is using apple pay to pay for it.

GamingChairModel , (edited )

30% is a reasonable cut for the distribution of software for which almost all revenue is marginal profit. When it’s a transaction for services that cost money to provide (like Uber or online shopping) or a transfer of money on behalf of someone else (think Venmo or PayPal or just a regular banking app), a 30% cut of the whole transaction doesn’t always make sense.

Apple recognizes this and doesn’t take a 30% cut for those types of services. But they don’t always categorize things correctly. Patreon is something like PayPal, whether the app owner takes a a small cut of each transaction, so paying 30% represents a huge cut, like 10x as much as they make.

Apple (and Google and Steam) are taking a software distribution cut for a service that more closely resembles payment processing, which is usually a 1-3% fee, not a 30% fee.

4am ,

and Steam

Exactly what is Steam doing now? AFAIK only charges fees sales of games through the Steam platform, from which developers get a LOT of value.

fuckwit_mcbumcrumble ,

The fee will only apply to memberships purchased on Patreon’s iOS app starting November 4th, 2024.

This isn’t about that, Apple hasn’t fully committed to those plans. This is about their existing rules which have applied to a long ass time.

Armok_the_bunny ,

I mean, that’s kinda exactly what I said, Apple taking a 30% cut of any transaction that occurs on their devices/on apps downloaded from their store makes no sense, though I will add that Patreon takes a 8 - 12% cut depending on how much support they give the creator. As far as Steam goes, to my knowledge they don’t take a cut out of in game purchases, only purchases that occur strictly on their platform. (Also I don’t think they charge everyone the 30%)

GamingChairModel ,

I mean, that’s kinda exactly what I said

Yes, I’m agreeing with you and expanding on that, showing where the lines blur. Apple wants to get 30% of everything when it’s only reasonable (and supported by historical practice) to get 30% of actual purchase of software. The history of the Apple App Store is an expansion beyond the original, relatively reasonable 30% cut on that narrow category, quietly spread out to a bunch of new categories that don’t actually resemble the previous category.

Apple knows they can’t take a 30% cut of every Uber fare or Doordash order or Amazon purchase of physical goods, and they don’t try to. It’s the categories in between where their policies start to look arbitrary.

And now Patreon in the crosshairs shows just how twisted it’s gotten. Like I was saying, I see Patreon as something more like PayPal than, like, Netflix.

helenslunch , (edited )
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

I know and I don’t give a shit. It’s absurd, I don’t care who does it. Wanna take a guess at how many billions Apple has taken out of the pockets of developers for the privilege of writing and developing software for their hardware?

Savaran ,

It also is likely costs that are having to be done anyway because of web based sales or other distribution channels. So it’s even worse that Apple and Google act like they’re providing so much when they’re literally just preventing businesses from using their existing infrastructure.

sunzu ,

Apple and Google stores are classic rent seeker behavior.

Deny them profit.

auzy ,

You don’t have to use the Google store though.

Apple forces you to the their app store, and they have a huge list of requirements they impose on apps to which dicks around developers

chonglibloodsport ,

I don’t think this difference matters that much in Patreon’s case. Convincing users to sideload an app on Android is likely much harder than just getting them to visit the Patreon website on their phone and subscribe to users that way. Heck, they could probably make the mobile site virtually identical to the app anyway.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

they could probably make the mobile site virtually identical to the app anyway.

That’s why they tried to kill PWAs too.

Stovetop ,

You don’t have to use Google’s store, but they’ve done a lot of anticompetitive shenanigans to snuff out competition and ensure they remain the dominant storefront.

After Google saw how much money Apple was making, they seemed to immediately regret having Android be an open platform. It was a convenience when they acquired the product early on because they could bring it to market quickly, but they’ve done everything in their power since then to close it up.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

they’ve done everything in their power since then to close it up.

If they wanted to close it up, they’d just do it…

TheFeatureCreature ,
@TheFeatureCreature@lemmy.world avatar

This is a given for many kinds of services. Always purchase subscriptions on another device or direct through their website - never use your Apple devices’ app store.

NegativeInf ,

I’m just worried for the content creators on patreon. Their choices are a significant reduction in income, jacking up prices and pricing out some of their patrons (thus reducing their income), or if patreon pulls from apple there’s a significant reduction in visibility and additional hurdles (thus reducing income).

So it seems that no matter the outcome, creators suffer the consequences of the Apple tax.

Fuck apple. Rotten to the core. Class action lawsuit in the very least.

Vote. We need House, Senate, and President to not be corporate fascists so that we can impeach at least 2 or 3 supreme court judges, replace them with rational human beings, reverse the overturning of Chevron Deference, and then let a stronger FTC gut these fucking companies.

Self dealing, competition buying, corporate fascists. The lot of them.

Zikeji ,
@Zikeji@programming.dev avatar

What we can work on is awareness. If iOS users are aware, they can choose to simply go to the website directly and make the purchase, instead of using the app. They can still use the app for consumption.

sigmaklimgrindset ,

Yep, that’s what everyone I know with Apple devices have always done. I used to have a Nexus 7 (rip) and an iPhone, and the prices on the App store were always higher than the prices on Android Market (rip).

I’m wondering why it’s being pointed out now by everyone, but I’m not gonna complain if it leads to some sort of price parity regulation across platforms.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Fuck apple. Rotten to the core. Class action lawsuit in the very least.

We’re well past class action territory. They’ve already been required to allow third-party app stores by the EU. They’re simply not complying and no one is doing shit about it.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

The fee will only apply to memberships purchased on Patreon’s iOS app starting November 4th, 2024.

Good, I hope they shed light on Apple’s shitfuckery.

MoogleMaestro ,

Yeah, I actually think this policy is 100% correct and, if more services did this instead of eating the costs, we could have a real discussion about the harm caused by arbitrary fees.

It will likely result in Apple seeking a special deal with Patreon to avoid this mess though. It’s really not a good look for Apple especially as they cater themselves to the creatives market.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

they cater themselves to the creatives market

LOL only in advertising.

MoogleMaestro ,

I mean, sure, but this counteracts all that money they spend when most artists make their money on Patreon or similar (if they make any money at all, frankly.)

pewgar_seemsimandroid ,

patreon app store.

sndmn ,

Someone’s looking to get in on some anti-trust action.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Who?

BestTestInTheWest ,

Mike Jones.

cornshark ,

I thought Apple’s app store practices were found to be legal in the Epic Games trial? (unlike Google’s)

helpImTrappedOnline ,

Is apple still blocking apps from telling users they can subscribe outside of the app store?

I.e A message on check out that says “You can save 30% if you subscribe directly the website. Apple charges a 30% processing fee for using Apple subscriptions, please just subscribe on the website.”

plz1 ,

So if I read that correctly, Apple wants a cut from Patreon’s iOS app, not all Patreon creetors that have iOS apps. People still have the option of contributing to Patreon directly via their website, or even their mobile website.

tudor ,

This couldn’t have come at a worse time, given their DOJ suit.

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