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magic_lobster_party ,

Bitcoin is estimated to consume 172 TWh, which is way more than Google and Microsoft combined.

https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption

Retiring , (edited )
@Retiring@lemmy.ml avatar

172 TWh per year

Your statement was as useful as the following: A VW Polo car costumes 3000 liters of fuel.

*Edit: Downvote me all you want šŸ˜‚ if I am right I am right.

brsrklf , (edited )

In 2023, Microsoft and Google consumed 48 TWh of electricity (24 TWh each).

Your point?

The data in the article was for one year. This is the same unit.

Retiring ,
@Retiring@lemmy.ml avatar

The comment was 172TWh without specifying a timeframe whatsoever. Is it a year? Is it a day? A month?

It was about the comment about bitcoin, not the post itself.

brsrklf ,

Thatā€™s the same timeframe as the one used in the article, and sure, they could have made it explicit again, but implicitly it makes sense because itā€™s the one thatā€™s useful for a direct comparison.

Turns out, the implicit timeframe that should be clear after reading the article was the right one, and itā€™s pretty damning for bitcoin as is. So again, I am not sure what point you want to make.

xthexder ,
@xthexder@l.sw0.com avatar

Iā€™m on the side of [email protected] here, since I read the comments before the article. Without the articlesā€™ context I had no idea if this meant all-time usage, per year, or per month.

Since the link is right there though, which says per year, itā€™s really not a huge deal.

magic_lobster_party ,

In 2023, the two tech companies

The article is also about per year

Retiring ,
@Retiring@lemmy.ml avatar

Yes it is. But your comment still doesnā€™t make sense until you add ā€œper yearā€.

unconfirmedsourcesDOTgov ,

The downvotes arenā€™t because youā€™re wrong, theyā€™re because youā€™re bring obnoxious about being right.

BearOfaTime ,

So, is Watt-hours/unit-time no longer a meaningful unit?

Because, if so, you better tell every power company Iā€™ve had, because thatā€™s how theyā€™ve billed me.

Retiring ,
@Retiring@lemmy.ml avatar

WattHours is a unit of work. If you say that bitcoin uses x amount of Wh it doesnā€™t say shit about how much it actually consumes. Because you donā€™t say in what amount of time Bitcoin uses said amount of work, you cannot compare it. I could state, that Bitcoin uses 5 Wh. Which would also be correct.

Its the same as saying, Bob eats 5 apples. Alice eats 2000 apples. Can you compare the two? No, because what I forgot to mention is, that Bon eats 5 apples a week and Alice eats 2000 apples in 3 years. Now i can compare the two.

Do you get my point?

technocrit ,

Yes, bitcoin is trash. But most modern cryptos use far less energy. For example the second largest crypto ethereum uses almost no energy compared to bitcoin/AI..

ā€œAIā€ can not say the same at all. And, unlike crypto, thereā€™s no realistic improvement in sight. It just keeps getting worse.

explodicle ,

PoS requires significant staker profits to work, which would create the same inequality as the dollar has. Itā€™s basically dollar bonds but without regulations.

QuadratureSurfer ,
@QuadratureSurfer@lemmy.world avatar

Thereā€™s more to ā€œAIā€ than just ChatGPTā€¦

I think youā€™re mixing up what AI actually means here, you would probably like this video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGIpdiQrFDU

But in brief, what about DLSS? The ML models for that get improved with every driver update.

STT models like whisper that are great at transcribing/translating.

Object recognition models for drones to keep the camera centered on you and for object avoidance.

ML models for finding new cures.

Models in astronomy for finding planetsā€¦ Etc.

Youā€™re trying to tell me that everything ā€œAIā€ is trash and not getting better?

nightwatch_admin ,

ā€œWhile nuclear fusion seems like the perfect solution for AIā€™s power needs due to its non-existent impact on the environmentā€¦ā€

nonexistent is key here.

BearOfaTime ,

Well, itā€™s definitely non-existantā€¦

slaacaa ,

Non-existent power source for a non-existent tech, a match made in heaven

(meaning what they hype as AI is actually mostly just LLM)

bbuez ,

Second law of thermodynamics would like to chime in, even with such a perfect nonexistent power source, waste heat is still an issueā€¦ which you can radiate to space, which would take tremendous land use to facilitateā€¦

Or we use that land and capital and effort for solar power, which exists and could power practically everything in our lives, minus AI. Sounds like a win to me.

(Also not to mention the necessity to fire up more fossils for this shit to compensate for the current lack of miracle power for their pipe dreams)

explodicle ,

ā€œA drop in the bucketā€ would be an overstatement here.

Jako301 ,

And both of these companies build and purchased more renewable energy sources than all 100+ countries combined. Microsoft has committed to be carbon free by 2030, and while I donā€™t belive in their commitment, they at least seem to be trying contrary to most nations. They even invested in nuclear plants for their power needs.

You can fault both companies for a lot of different reasons, but in terms of carbon emissions due to power usage, they are better than 99.9% of the countries on that list.

nightwatch_admin ,

They didnā€™t build it. They buy from local suppliers, power that could have been used by people and companies already there. Now itā€™s just a lot more, while a serious part of the power consumption goes into debatable purposes like overhyped AI stuff.

Edit: and fwiw, recently Microsoft themselves announced that they are far from their reduction targets roadmap, so not sure where you got the happy flow news from

oce ,
@oce@jlai.lu avatar

Green energy that could go to higher priority sectors like decarborning housing, food production and transportation . Carbon free doesnā€™t mean no ecological impact, of course itā€™s better than fossil fuel, but it still a lot of ressources extracted and place taken over nature (which is the first cause of biodiversity loss). So ideally we should only destroy so much for essential needs.

BearOfaTime ,

Meh, itā€™s all smoke and mirrors.

This is the ā€œmanufacture more to use fewer resourcesā€ nonsense of cash for clunkers.

ZILtoid1991 ,

But we will soon have AGI, and then you can have your very own JARVIS! Donā€™t you like Iron Man? Donā€™t you like super heroes? Donā€™t you like sci-fi? /s

0x0 ,

Wake me up when AI can simulate my brain. Literally, run me.exe and let me know.

T156 ,

All fun and games until a moth ends up in your transistors.

ICastFist ,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

What if the moth is just their fursona?

PoolloverNathan ,

Moths have fur?

ICastFist ,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

I think all moths have some amount of fur, itā€™s easy to notice on the base of their wings, just ā€œbehindā€ (below?) the head. Some, like the rosy moth, are almost entirely covered in furs

PoolloverNathan ,

TIL, thanks

merde ,

ants! ants!

EQijUyIW4AADbLg

Danitos ,

Which movie is this?

ghoscht ,

I believe itā€™s Pi (1998). Absolutely crazy movie, you should watch the trailer: youtu.be/yRjkQT9xLZs

merde ,

yes, Pi

explodicle ,

You pass the butter.

dan ,
@dan@upvote.au avatar

and how much of that is energy thatā€™s essentially used to run other companies, by way of their cloud services? I imagine thatā€™d be a pretty substantial amount.

explodicle ,

To be fair, that level of centralization in the hands of a for-profit corporation is worrisome too. Theyā€™ll lure in small businesses and then enshittify.

dan ,
@dan@upvote.au avatar

Theyā€™ll lure in small businesses and then enshittify.

Iā€™m not so sureā€¦ These ā€œcloudā€ services are paid services they make a lot of money from, and itā€™s a huge industry with a very large number of competitors (practically all major hosting services, and even a lot of smaller ones).

dutchkimble ,

But people from those countries must also be using Google and Microsoft

NeatNit ,

There might be some double counting, but it doesnā€™t matter - this just illustrates the insane scale of these companies.

filister OP ,

Correction, the insane amount of energy the AI needs

magic_lobster_party ,

Is all of this due to AI? Iā€™m confident most of the energy is spent on other stuff, like data centers. Both Google and Microsoft are cloud providers.

Num10ck ,

perhaps until they get neural links installed on prisoners.

FishFace ,

Comparing huge multinational countries which serve every country to the half of countries with the smallest energy usage is not terribly illustrative.

BearOfaTime ,

I think you meant comparing companies, guessing autocorrect got you.

And I disagree, itā€™s useful, but more useful would be a chart of countries and multi-nationals, with the company usage removed from the country usage, to see it more clearly.

golli ,

Not just people, but importantly also corporations running their services on Microsoft azure or Google cloud.

LodeMike ,

No matter which way you correctly read the headline, itā€™s false.

You can either read it as Google and microsoft individually consumed more electricity than these 100 countries did (false, itā€™s Google and microsoft combined)

OR Google and Microsoft combined consimed more than these 100 countries did total.

Did an intern write this or something?

VintageTech ,

CoPilot with Gemini plugin did.

LodeMike ,

Hm. Maybe itā€™s ambiguity is there to maximise clicking on the article?

Allero ,

In 2023, Microsoft and Google consumed 48 TWh of electricity (24 TWh each).

Each of them separately.

MonkderDritte , (edited )

To be fair, Iceland only has around 400k inhabitants.

dropout ,

Closer to 400k

MonkderDritte ,

Right, it was a bit over 100k kmĀ², memory is a bitch, corrected.

muix ,

80% of our produced energy goes to aluminium smelting.

MonkderDritte ,

In Iceland or world?

muix ,

Iceland

maxinstuff ,
@maxinstuff@lemmy.world avatar

Are we talking consumed for their own use? Or consumed as part of delivering cloud services to their customers?

These are very different things. The former would be horrifying the latter would be misleading in the extreme.

Randomgal ,

I think it is the customers who pay for the electricity that they use? Las time I checked MS didnā€™t pay anything in my electric bill.

kurap1ka ,

Well you donā€™t have 1000 vms running in azure, do you? Itā€™s not about your Xboxā€¦

doggle ,

For software and devices running locally, sure. Much of what MS does these days is cloud based where the bulk of the electricity is being used in a data center somewhere and the customer isnā€™t (directly) paying for it.

nyan ,

Many countries donā€™t use a lot of electricity, especially those where the grids are spotty or in poor repair, or the overall population is small. Even without the AI garbage, Iā€™d expect large tech-sector companies to use more energy than many countries.

(In other words, the headline for this was really poorly chosen. ā€œMicrosoft and Google pour more electricity into AI than 100+ countries useā€ might have gotten a bit closer to the actuall point, if itā€™s actually true.)

dan ,
@dan@upvote.au avatar

Microsoft and Google pour more electricity into AI than 100+ countries use" might have gotten a bit closer to the actuall point, if itā€™s actually true

From what I can tell, the article is talking about total electrical use, not just AI.

Also probably ignoring the fact that some of their data centers have practically the entire roof covered in solar panels, Microsoft is investing in nuclear energy, etc.

TheReturnOfPEB ,

That is a big probably.

BlackLaZoR ,
@BlackLaZoR@kbin.run avatar

Sun consumes 100000000000+ countries power. We have to do something!

nightwatch_admin ,

Easy, switch it off!

pirat ,

Not the brightest ideaā€¦

Aetherion ,

They want to become carbon neutralbut climate crisis is already running.

Feels like build ā€ždonā€™t smoke hereā€œ - signs in our forests while they are burning.

autotldr Bot ,

This is the best summary I could come up with:

Generative AI is taking the world by storm, and its impact is evident across all sectors, including medicine, education, music, computing, and more.

According to a detailed analysis by Michael Thomas, this surpasses the power consumption of over 100 nations, including Ghana, Tunisia, and more (via Tomā€™s Hardware).

Some of the downsides to advancements in the AI landscape include the degradation of the environment, however, Google and Microsoft are big on renewable energy and have been championing the campaign while seeking alternative power sources.

Elon Musk claimed weā€™re on the verge of the biggest technology breakthrough with AI, but there wonā€™t be enough power by 2025.

Sam Altman has been exploring a potential alternative power source for OpenAIā€™s AI efforts, with nuclear fusion at the top of his list.

While nuclear fusion seems like the perfect solution for AIā€™s power needs due to its non-existent impact on the environment, scientists and researchers say itā€™s ā€œtoo late to deal with the climate crisisā€ and view fission and renewable energy as better options.

The original article contains 449 words, the summary contains 169 words. Saved 62%. Iā€™m a bot and Iā€™m open source!

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