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Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Strange New Worlds | 2x05 "Charades"

LoglineA shuttle accident leads to Spock’s Vulcan DNA being removed by aliens, making him fully human and completely unprepared to face T’Pring’s family during an important ceremonial dinner.

Written by Kathryn Lyn & Henry Alonso Myers

Directed by Jordan Canning

ranphi ,

I was disappointed they didn’t spend more time on the scene at the end where Spock reveals to T’pring’s mother that he was actually human while performing their precious ceremony. Really wanted to see him yank that Vulcan rose bush that woman had up her ass!

VindictiveJudge ,

As much as I enjoy seeing the asshole Vulcans be taken down a peg, I really want to see more of her husband. He was laid back and expressive, so I thought there was going to be a twist with him. I hope he comes back later. He may be one of those Vulcans that gets the whole, “logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end,” thing.

ranphi ,

Yes, agreed. He seemed like a genuinely decent individual from the brief time he had on screen. But you could tell that even he was terrified of his wife’s behavior. Poor guy! Imagine being married to someone like his wife… 😱

Ooh! Maybe they could do an episode where comes back to get help from Pike, Spock, and T’pring because he’s looking to divorce that demon of a Vulcan wife?! Lol.

goGetF1 ,

They characterized T’Pring’s parents really well, I thought. You could see where her compassion and acceptance came from, as well as her adherence to tradition.

theothersparrow ,
@theothersparrow@lemmy.one avatar

Poor guy! Imagine being married to someone like his wife…

Bold of you to assume that her domineering personality isn’t exactly what he likes about her.

theothersparrow ,
@theothersparrow@lemmy.one avatar

We definitely didn’t get enough of his reaction to the human reveal.

felixxx999 ,

I loved the episode. Someone needs to make a Spock kicking the air GIF. I love that Spock has two hotties fighting for his attention. This was close to a hangout Trek. AND they were on a mission too! This episode felt so much like TNG. Again, Pike’s hair is amazing. THE BEST PART: When Pike tried to escape the reunion of Spock and his future mother in law the damned door wouldn’t open. Pike avoiding family conflict was the best running joke on the show. And LOVED that Pike wasn’t the hero. Show is so good.

triktrek ,

When Pike was serving that tray of food only to make a 90 degree turn, lol

CCF_100 ,

This episode was really fun

RoundSparrow ,

I surely got some nods to Bender becoming human in Futurma season 4. The bacon eating scene, surely a Matt Groening reference to Homer’s love for pork, and Bender went wild on nachos and hot dogs.

TeaHands ,
@TeaHands@lemmy.world avatar

I was also thinking this the whole way through 😄

crazycanadianloon ,

Same! The only thing missing was a cigar in his hands!

hazelnot ,

fuck you unvulcans your spock

williams_482 ,
@williams_482@startrek.website avatar

Much to my own surprise, I’m a complete sucker for this budding Spock/Chapel romance. I just want these two beautiful people to be happy together, damn it! We all know it’s doomed, unfortunately, and I hope that whatever inevitably destroys it doesn’t turn out to be too painful for the characters involved. Spock and Chapel are obviously not engaged in a romantic relationship in TOS, most obviously in Amok Time when such a pairing would have rendered the entire story trivial.

Someone mentioned in a previous thread that Spock’s Pon Farr (seven years before Amok Time) is closing in. I was skeptical in that thread that they would choose to touch on it then, but the events of this episode do make that seem quite a bit more likely, if (again) increasingly difficult to square with Amok Time.

SteleTrovilo ,

I’m holding out hope for Spock/Chapel. I actually think SNW subtly branched away from the Prime timeline some time ago, so the future for these characters is not yet written!

CaptainProton ,

what makes you say that?

effinstephen ,

The Temporal Cold War has made ripples in the timeline. The Romulan time traveler in “Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow” strongly hinted that history was at least a little bit different than it had been, with the date of the Eugenics War as case in point. I think the writers are freeing themselves up to make minor changes to canon. I don’t think it’s a branching timeline, though, it’s still Prime. Just a little bit different, like Gabriel Bell being replaced by Captain Sisco.

triktrek ,

It’s sci-fi – if the producers feel strongly enough to make a blank slate, they can always retcon or shall I say future-con, and have SNW branch out a different timeline.

CaptainProton ,

But there is nothing in the series so far that suggests SNW has diverged. Unless you count the visual aspects, I suppose, although that means Disco is also an alt-timeline.

WolfeReader ,
@WolfeReader@freeradical.zone avatar

@triktrek @CaptainProton Our instances sometimes don’t federate correctly, so I'm gonna reply from Mastoson this time! Here’s the reply that shows how SNW has, maybe, diverged: https://beehaw.org/comment/658690

maegul ,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

Woah woah … they’re fighting words!!

BadExampleMan ,

I don’t know but what Amok Time was Spock’s first pon farr. Vulcans age and mature more slowly than humans, right?

maegul ,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

So I’m not really the biggest fan of the episode. Felt a bit too obviously like mid-season filler or something. Though I didn’t hate it.

But what I actually really appreciated about it, reflecting on it just now, is that I don’t think it was predictable, like at all. You couldn’t quite tell if the episode was going to go full comedy, or romantic drama or some whacky sci-fi stuff with the wormhole aliens.

And I think that might be one of SNW’s strengths (?) A sort of comfortable and maybe confident fluidity around the tone and style it’s going for in any episode and at any point in time.

williams_482 ,
@williams_482@startrek.website avatar

Felt a bit too obviously like mid-season filler or something. Though I didn’t hate it.

As far as I’m concerned, the weakest parts of the show were the parts that tried the hardest not to be “mid-season filler”: creating and resolving the doctor’s insane daughter-in-transporter-buffer situation, trying to set up a future “big bad” situation with Sybok, etc. I was very concerned from Alex Kurtzman’s description of this current season many months ago that they might have learned the wrong lessons from the first season, but thank goodness that they seem to have stuck with what made the first season good: brilliantly executed character driven episodic storytelling.

SoSquidTaste ,

future “big bad” situation with Sybok

For real though, wtf happened with that mic drop reveal. Not that I'm complaining; I don't feel particularly excited to learn about another previously-unheard-of Spock sibling.

Then again, the amount of times Sarek's name was dropped in this episode is probably a clear breadcrumb that this storyline is coming sooner than later.

eva_sieve ,

To be fair, Sybok was the original spontaneous Spock sibling, even though Star Trek V was chronologically later.

Mezentine ,

No its great. I love them bringing Sybok back so much. Its so stupid. Its the goofiest decision they could have possibly made and it embodies something I love about Star Trek, which is its refusal to throw away even the bad stuff. Every reminder that Star Trek V is canon keeps the franchise from getting too arrogant about itself.

FormerGameDev ,

I would guess that if we see Sarek in this series, it’s going to be either purely through another character’s view, or just mentions. It’s many years off still before Sarek gets over Spock’s decision to join Starfleet, and starts talking to him again.

khaosworks ,
@khaosworks@startrek.website avatar

Aha! I just noticed that the lead writer on this episode is Kathryn Lyn, who also wrote the best episode of Lower Decks to date: the incredible “wej Duj”.

No wonder I thought that Ortegas’ line about “Notice how I move my eyebrow but no other muscles in my face,” sounded like something Mariner would say.

triktrek ,

Nice catch. Also, T’Lyn was introduced in “wej Duj” and was named of writer Kathryn Lyn. Seems like Lyn has a knack for Vulcans. According to Memory Alpha, she’s a big Star Trek fan and cosplayed at conventions.

BadExampleMan ,

At first I was thinking, “I thought we had all agreed that we did not approve of hijinx” and I am totally unable to enjoy cringe humor. It doesn’t make me laugh, just…cringe.

BUT it turned out that it was in service of advancing two of Spock’s most intimate relationships and wow, that packed a punch. It was like, for us 21st century humans, the first time you looked at your parent and saw them as a fully fleshed-out adult with their own struggles, not just “mom” or “dad”.

T’Pring was 100% right to feel slighted by Spock not confiding in her, though I don’t think it was lack of trust on his part, I think it was more not wanting to have both of them in a situation where they had to deal with…hijinx. But that’s what marriage is, committing yourself to another person first, always. And apparently Spock is not ready for that yet.

tukarrs ,

To be fair to Spock… T’Pring was just saying that her mom would cancel the wedding if she found any deviations. Would T’Pring have been able to hide Spock’s situation during the mind meld?

Madison_rogue ,
@Madison_rogue@kbin.social avatar

I thought the same thing myself. I do agree with Spock's motivation and the way handled it; I think T'pring's response of taking time apart is definitely emotionally motivated. As Spock mentioned that Vulcans feel more intensely than humans, assuredly T'pring (because she does truly love Spock) was quite angry and hurt he didn't disclose that he was human.

The time apart might be necessary for T'pring to realize that Spock's actions were the best course of action given the circumstances.

khaosworks , (edited )
@khaosworks@startrek.website avatar

If Spock had used that excuse it might have seemed logical. I suspect that it wasn’t used because the writers needed a stronger motivator for T’Pring and Spock to take a break and using that reason explicitly would weaken T’Pring’s decision.

I can understand T’Pring’s hurt feelings. She’s been nothing but supportive of Spock’s humanity and his search for identity. She tolerates the long separations. She desperately wants the relationship to work, gets to know his friends and family and she even gives him tips during the tea ceremony like a partner is supposed to do. To her, they’re a team, but to Spock, she’s still an outsider who needs to be compartmentalized in favor of his shipboard family. Spock claims it’s because he wanted to protect her and to an extent it’s probably true, but the bottom line is that he doesn’t trust her to be helpful, and that’s not the way a partner behaves.

No wonder that himbo Stonn’s in like a shot.

erbazzone ,

Why I get notifications but I can’t see any comment nor I can see the thread in the homepage? If it has been cancelled how there are people keeping commenting?

ValueSubtracted OP ,
@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website avatar

Please make sure your language settings have BOTH “Undetermined” and “English” selected. That is the culprit 90% of the time.

erbazzone ,

Oh thanks! Solved

Onurb ,

such a great episode. love it

Weerdo ,

So, that whole section for Spock on being a Vulcan, That’s the video clip they’re going to give new actors for Vulcans isn’t it? Right down to the prosthetics.

eva_sieve ,

Kinda sad we didn’t get James Frain back as Sarek for this episode. I could kinda see him bumping into Chapel and reminiscing about how the Vulcan Science Academy was absolutely awful to his 1.5 human kids.

FormerGameDev ,

Remember that Sarek is not speaking to Spock for another like 18 years or so

adamlauver ,

I thought this episode walked a really fascinating line in its approach to exploring the lived experience and cultural significance of mixed identities. Having the ancient alien species misinterpret Spock’s Vulcan DNA as an anomaly/pathology was a risky move from a writing perspective given the potential for reproducing language and ideas associated with eugenics. But doing so allowed what what I thought was a more robust examination of Spock’s character and his relationships, by way of separating one half of his identity from the other and seeing what happens (like a smaller scale of Community’s excellent “Remedial Chaos Theory,” which examined how the study group might be affected by the temporary removal of each group member in turn).

There was plenty to laugh at, of course. Ethan Peck could easily have gone too over-the-top in playing Spock’s surge in human emotions, but I think he threaded the needle really well in allowing through just enough Vulcan “muscle memory” (as it were) to tamp down the humania – and he still managed to be extremely funny. And Anson Mount as always shined with his subtle (and hilarious) comic timing as the host of the engagement ceremony. Watch the way he snaps his fingers when T’Pring’s father asks for more Tevmel --and how he continues on in wide-eyed stride on his way back to the group once Spock starts admitting to his “condition.” Mount is a performer who knows how to blend into the scenery rather than chew it – a distinct quality in a Star Trek captain and a consistently funny one to boot.

But what really made this episode work for me was the heart in addition to the humor. I have a friend who remarked earlier this season that she doesn’t understand why Star Trek is so obsessed with Spock’s human side; she’s much more attracted to his Vulcan side and is confused at what she sees as the constant efforts to make him “more human.” I can see her frustration, and this episode certainly turns into that skid a bit. But the show isn’t fantasizing or daydreaming about a Spock that’s fully human – it’s using the idea as a tool to understand his fuller and more complex identity, and to celebrate what makes Spock Spock. And I absolutely shed tears when Spock came clean to T’Pring’s parents about his condition, not just out of personal pride but as a way to express affection and appreciation for his human mother. What a wonderful moment.

And I think this episode’s true strength was in depicting how everyone in Spock’s life understood that being made “more human” didn’t make him better or more “fun” or more “relatable.” Not once did anyone murmur to anyone else something like, “Are we sure we want to fix him?” (which I could easily see Dr. McCoy saying, for example). Instead, everyone understood fundamentally the unique value of Spock’s half-human/half-Vulcan identity, and went to great lengths to bring it back. It might have been a bit corny to funnel that through Nurse Chapel’s romantic feelings for him, and having her have to admit those feelings to an ancient alien species – but it was smart, too. (And seeing her tell the Vulcan Science Academy that she didn’t think their fellowship was ready for her made me literally pump my arm, by the way).

Another solid Spock-centric episode in my book. I look forward to reading what everyone else thought!

SoSquidTaste ,

humania

My first time seeing this; delightful term hahah

I also can't agree enough with your observation about the human side as a lens through which to understand Spock and how he relates to those around him. Double points for noting the lack of quippiness in the vein of "Are we sure we want to fix him?" I hate that I need to praise that kind of restraint in TV / movie writing these days but, well, here we are.

As for my original contribution here:

I realllly liked the fact that while I'm sure I'm not alone in shipping TF out of Spock and Chapel, I feel like this episode went to decently robust character exploration such that the ending bit felt a lot less tacked on, or a writer's wink "for the shippers". A lot of that IMO rests on Spock's monologue at the end of the dinner. For just another layer of appreciation of that character moment.

snowyday Bot ,

Speaking of Community, I once banged Eartha Kitt in an airplane bathroom

Remedial Chaos Theory synced to Jeff hitting his head:

youtu.be/kmQGaJth_mc

khaosworks ,
@khaosworks@startrek.website avatar

The Kherkovians remind me of my worst customer service experiences. I bet Yellow and Blue aren’t even their real names, just aliases to mask the rep of the day.

I’m also convinced they have to be connected to the Bajoran Prophets somehow. A transport tunnel? An interdimensional liminal space? Come on!

The Vulcan comedy of manners was hilarious, especially the Awareness ritual, which is basically every thing your in-laws hate about you but told to your face with no pretense. Pike trying to get them to play charades was a little too on the nose, I think, right up there with “You’re astronauts on some kind of Star Trek.”

I was half convinced the mind meld would turn out to be a TAS: “Yesteryear” reference. Not gonna lie, felt a bit let down. They’re also really teasing us with this Korby stuff.

I also thought the reason Spock didn’t tell T’Pring was because he thought there was a risk T’Pril might pick it up during the meld.

While I enjoy them, I do hope the zany episodes don’t always revolve around Vulcans. As funny as they are (and teaching Spock how to talk like a Vulcan was gasping for breath funny) I don’t always want them to be the butt of the joke.

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