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potentiallynotfelix ,

Ok this is pretty cool, I just don’t know if I would trust it yet. I was actually thinking about the concept a bit ago, that I really don’t know what I’m taking if my doctor prescribes something to me… I do really like the concept, though.

lord_ryvan ,

I would if I could!

I will say, there’s something scary about crafting your own medicine, I’d expect medicine to be highly precisely crafted in labs by highly educated professionals and that it’d be difficult and perhaps dangerous to make and take your own medicine. I could be wrong.

The things they write in the article are amazing, people can make their own life savine cure to hepatitis C for about 70 USD for their whole home made treatment, that just works? It seems too good to be true without any caveats.

Oh and, final thought, “Four Thieves Collective”? They really don’t beat around the bush. I like that

DebatableRaccoon ,

It certainly sounds like it should be more difficult than that (and as far as I, a non-medical professional, know it is) but keep in mind the pharmaceutical industry is worth billions to a select few, and keep in mind back when Eli Lilly’s Twitter was hacked and posted insulin, a substance that costing some people over $1000/month just to live, would be free, their stock dropped 4.37% the next day.

Like I said, I’m no medical anything but like with previous products that have claimed to be medically beneficial, I think it’s worth at least taking a step back and looking at what someone stands to gain by claiming something vital is simple versus what those who claim otherwise stand to lose.

After all, I think we’ve all heard the story of the doctor who, in a fit of desperation, cured his wife’s cancer with bicarbonate of soda and then did so with more of his patients before being sued by Big Pharma.

ruk_n_rul ,

Hack? It’s not even that. Just musk in his infinite wisdom enabling pay-to-get-checkmark on Xitter so all the fake/satire accounts immediately jumped on the opportunity.

DebatableRaccoon ,

Oh, was that it? I’d heard someone had hacked the EL Twitter account. That’s even dumber. Thanks for the correction and highlighting how much dumber the fallout was, luckily my misunderstanding didn’t take away from the main point.

RootBeerGuy ,
@RootBeerGuy@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

It is easy to make if you have the know how and some equipment, also if it is already known what you need to make. For example, aspirin is known structurally (unless I am mistaken), so if you have the chemistry know-how and equipment, you can make your own.

However the tricky part is to get it as a safe medicine to take, that you do not have impurities that could be dangerous, toxic. You will need to be able to make quality and safety checks like that. Which I am not sure how easy that really is.

Maeve , (edited )

White willow bark and devil's claw root contain naturally occurring salicylic acid, similar to aspirin. Better, but it tastes funky.

ETA: https://www.mountsinai.org/health-library/herb/slippery-elm#:~:text=Slippery%20elm%20contains%20mucilage%2C%20a,throat%2C%20stomach%2C%20and%20intestines.

Nothing wrong with homemade medicine. Just know what you're doing. I've used many, on myself and now adult child. Grandparents on both sides taught me. Their's taught them. I've used comfrey to heal deep wounds on friendly strays.

harrys_balzac ,

The CLR (the reactor to create the medicine) costs about US$300-500 to make according to their website. Then there’s actually figuring out the software. They don’t sell recipes,as it were, so there’s time involved as well.

I’ve been poking around their site tonight after I saw this posted to another community. It’s worth looking at, imho.

Thordros ,
@Thordros@hexbear.net avatar

I’d expect medicine to be highly precisely crafted in labs by highly educated professionals and that it’d be difficult and perhaps dangerous to make and take your own medicine. I could be wrong.

You’re not wrong—all of 4TVC’s work is extremely dangerous. Not as dangerous as you’d think, though. And, compared to living a life crushed by debilitating disease or debt, do those risks outweigh the outcome? Probably not.

Maeve ,

Four Thieves vinegar was supposedly used by four grave robbers to protect them from bubonic plague, each thief added their own herb to the infusion. It apparently worked well enough, they negotiated their freedom by giving up the recipe.

Nowadays, people vary the herbs, garlic is the constant.

It's no secret herbs like oregano (most savory herbs actually) have antimicrobial properties. When you're poor and a doctor's visit is a day or more lost pay, the daycare is paid regardless of attendance, then the uninsured cost of the visit and pharmaceuticals, you learn.

lord_ryvan ,

That’s such a cool backstory, thanks!

Maeve ,

You're welcome.

YungOnions ,

Fascinating article!

NuraShiny ,

As a European, this looks insane to me.

Capitalism working as intended though, undercutting the competition and all that.

nfsm ,

My thoughts exactly. In Europe it’s part of our social welfare

prole ,

Wouldn’t “right to repair” regarding medicine just be universal healthcare?

Most people in right to repair states/countries still bring their iPhone to someone to fix (though they have the right to fix it themselves just as people I guess have the right to try to fix themselves rather than go to a doctor).

becausechemistry ,

I’m a process chemist. I do this sort of thing for a living.

These guys don’t even know why what they’re suggesting is so dangerous. Do not do any of this.

oberstoffensichtlich ,
@oberstoffensichtlich@feddit.org avatar

Could you elaborate a bit?

People make and take illicit drugs all the time. What’s the difference here?

becausechemistry ,

People make illicit drugs chock full of impurities all the time too, and it fucks people up.

There are standards for purity on pharmaceuticals. Impurities have to be ridiculously low. Lower than you can measure in your garage.

These dudes either don’t know you need to even measure purity or have decided that it’s inconvenient and are ignoring it.

princessnorah ,
@princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Or, and hear me out, they know what the risks are and have assessed that they are reasonable when the alternative is death? I do disagree with them asserting they are higher-quality though, or I would at least like to see incontrovertible proof of that.

EchoCranium ,

I’m a quality chemist. I test the API’s that process chemists make to be sure they’re right. Yeah, reactions don’t always proceed as intended. These guys do understand the risks, and are only trying to provide an option. Here in the US the insurance companies are perfectly willing to let us die because funding expensive treatment hurts their bottom line. Unless you’re independently wealthy, a small scale reactor at home may become the only option a person has available. Definitely risky, but why not take the chance when corporate America has determined you’re not valuable enough to save?

OminousOrange ,
@OminousOrange@lemmy.ca avatar

Hey guys, many other countries have figured out that healthcare doesn’t have to be a privatized, for-profit nightmare. Perhaps that’s an option worth exploring.

Duranie ,

Plenty have been fighting for it, but there’s an uphill battle against “but that’s socialism and socialism is evil!” and those that personally benefit financially who stand in the way.

OminousOrange ,
@OminousOrange@lemmy.ca avatar

Oh, I agree it won’t be easy, particularly when taking profits from rich people.

I’ve heard it likened to a house full of asbestos. Knock it all down and there’s likely to be collateral damage, but meticulously taking it apart will take a considerable amount of time. I feel it would be easiest for governments to purchase the insurance companies, then slowly amalgamate so it’s all one network open to everyone.

JoMiran ,
@JoMiran@lemmy.ml avatar

Haha, what?!? That’s crazy talk!

kirk781 OP ,
@kirk781@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Isn’t medical tourism a thing in the US too; like you can fly to a developing country, get your treatment done by top specialists there and fly back to US and the cost would still be lower than what it would have taken to do in home country.

becausechemistry ,

I’m not disputing the reasoning behind why this is important. But “it is important” does not imply that their solution is the right one.

Maeve ,

Quite frankly, the contamination from pesticide and polluted air, water and dirt on everyday foods (and of course my herbs) are a bigger concern. They're ubiquitous and unavoidable, now, thanks to big business and apathetic, time-constrained, overworked individuals. So I'm not that concerned by home remedies, although I really only trust my own. Some herbalists/root medics add turpentine to their remedies, for internal use. So I'll stick to my own or vetted suppliers.

kirk781 OP ,
@kirk781@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

I think these guys might be able to hack through the process and get stuff done and think getting other people to follow them will be trivial as well. But just because they didn’t mess up, doesn’t mean other people won’t. A large majority might end up hurting themselves if they follow in their route.

Maeve ,

I mean if you're going to die without access, roll the dice.

adelita2938 ,

You wouldn’t pirate a medicine, would you?

You wouldnt’ pirate a human thought would you? The basis of this entire sub, that one pile of neurons deserves for life the rights to a computation.

kirk781 OP ,
@kirk781@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

I just wrote it because it rhymed with the now memed 2004 anti piracy announcement You wouldn’t download a car that was rightfully criticized.

princessnorah ,
@princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

…Are you a bot? Your account is less than a day old and this comment… almost made sense. But what the heck does this mean?

…that one pile of neurons deserves for life the rights to a computation.

p03locke ,
@p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

{Gee, I wonder why that so popular…](www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRPeU1DYOWA)

princessnorah ,
@princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

And you know what bloody sucks? ADHD meds are one of the few that you can not and probably should not make at home. Why? Without watching the whole video, I can tell you the medication he can’t get ahold of is Lisdexamphetamine. The precursor chemicals of which are the same as for Methamphetamine. It’s also in the same schedule as opiates. So I’d imagine that even the guy the article is about wouldn’t mess around with those publicly, and perhaps even privately as the DEA heavily monitors sales of the precursors.

I’m so fucking sick of the meds that make my brain work being out of stock :(

10_0 ,

No I wouldn’t, I don’t have years of knowledge and experience to know if two drugs will interact and kill me. Or why cutting into yourself is considered selfharm, as you panic and bleed out. What a joke.

Melody ,

I firmly think this would be a boon for many people; owning one of these is likely a lifeline that even small town physicians could utilize to dispense drugs freely or cheaply to patients in need.

This is something that I think small-town pharmacies could use to create compounds in cases of drug shortages. I think tools and programs and small labs like what are discussed in the article are a positive force for good; and that they should be not only allowed, but encouraged, for many drugs that are expensive, unavailable to someone in need and can be readily synthesized safely with a basic college level of chemistry training by someone in a pharmacy.

I think the potential risks and downsides are small right now; and I think more of it should be encouraged gently so that we can find out quickly what the flaws and limitations are so that we can put regulatory guardrails around it so that people do not harm themselves.

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