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19-page PDF accuses Wikipedia of bias against Israel, suggests editors be forced to reveal their real names, and demands a new feature allowing people to view the history of Wikipedia articles

The crying "History" button at the top right sends its regards. Yes, the World Jewish Congress has published a report that demands Wikipedia add a feature to view the history of articles, see what actions were performed by whom, and "host forums and discussions within the Wikipedia community to address concerns about neutrality and gather feedback for policy improvements". It also wants to force all admins and above to reveal their real names.

Linkerbaan , (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Wikipedia is israeli ran from the top down it’s not just army of IDF soldiers editing it.

For example Wikipedia lists israeli lobby organisation ADL as a “reliable source”

In 2020, the ADL trained staff to edit Wikipedia pages, but after the project caused Wikipedia editors to criticize this as a conflict of interest, the ADL said it suspended the project in April 2021. The ADL is considered a reliable source on Wikipedia, and the ADL said its staff complied with Wikipedia policies by disclosing their affiliations, but some Wikipedia editors objected that the project cited ADL sources disproportionately and did not reflect the volunteer spirit of the website, especially in heavily editing its own Wikipedia article.

Anyone that knows anything about ADL knows they are not reliable whatsoever. Wikipedia is a compromised Zionist dumpsterfire.

roastedDeflator , (edited )

Anyone that knows anything about ADL knows they are not reliable whatsoever

Of course. Still, even if someone knows nothing about ADL, by making a simple search with the keywords "ADL zionism" they will have the relevant page that confirms they are zionists. I won't add this link, but I will add the link of:

Jewish Voice for Peace - Our approach to zionism

While it had many strains historically, the Zionism that took hold and stands today is a settler-colonial movement, establishing an apartheid state where Jews have more rights than others. Our own history teaches us how dangerous this can be.

Palestinian dispossession and occupation are by design. (...)

Aatube OP , (edited )
@Aatube@kbin.social avatar

Searching about it, the ADL seems to try and separate support of the Israeli government from Zionism, and defines Zionism as the belief that Jews should have a sovereign state to live together. If one thinks that Israel shouldn't be sovereign at all and being abolished tomorrow would be very good, I'd also agree that that is extremist.

roastedDeflator , (edited )

From Anti-Israel and Anti-Zionist Campaigns - ADL

While criticism of Israeli policies and actions is part of that discourse, certain forms of anti-Israel rhetoric and activism delegitimize Israel and its existence, and are antisemitic when they vilify and negate Zionism – the movement for Jewish self-determination and statehood – or utilize anti-Jewish tropes or hold all Jews responsible for Israel’s actions.

  1. They try to portray zionism this way in order to legitimize settler colonialism, and equate anti-zionism with antisemitism. Historically this chance was lost well over a century ago. See quote above from Jewish Voice for Peace and their site for details.
  2. Check out the Ben Gurion and the critic he got from Bundists. If you like videos, this one is pretty informative:
    The History of "Socialist" Zionism | Leftist Zionists did the Nakba & founded Israel
  3. If you like text you could take a look at:
    The Neglected History of the State of Israel - The Revisionist faction of Zionism that ended up triumphing adhered to literal fascist doctrines and traditions.
Aatube OP ,
@Aatube@kbin.social avatar

Thanks.

Aatube OP , (edited )
@Aatube@kbin.social avatar

Please elaborate why they are not reliable for things other than Israel/Palestine topics, for which WP:RSP already has a small warning about that area.

Searching about it, the ADL seems to try and separate Zionism to support of the Israeli government. Even if ADL were unreliable, that's just one source, and I don't see why that means "Wikipedia is a compromised Zionist dumpsterfire". Organizations and individuals are allowed to submit requests to edit pages for which they have a conflict of interest, and I don't see why Wikipedia being open to review them means it's now Israeli-ran from the top-down.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

For anything non-controlversial and science related Wikipedia is fine. But when it comes to geopolitics Wikipedia is extremely Western biased. And in the case of middle eastern topic severely compromised. It’s an important place to play with words and selectively put disinformation so people who think they get educated leave brainwashed.

There’s far far more, I wrote a lengthy comment once about Wikipedia claiming israel’s 1967 invasion war a “pre-emptive attack” which is a very dubious claim at best and debunked by many israeli leaders already. Wikipedia might be open for review but with the amount of Zionists involved in editing Palestine related articles there’s no way real change gets through. Ironically Wikipedia instead just has an entirely different page explaining why it’s actually not a pre-emptive attack but nobody is going to look through that. They will see the summary of the first article and the damage will be done.

The ADL is one of the biggest Zionist slander lobbies that call any criticism of israel “anti-Semitic”. Wikipedia still listing the ADL as a “reliable source” cannot mean anything else than israel having huge influence on Wikipedia’s politcy.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/b04abe1a-ab0b-498c-9c9d-46623f0b7fb4.png

Any organisation that endorses the ADL or uses them as a “news source” is severely compromised it’s as simple as that. It’s like people quoting Russian state propaganda as evidence. By now everyone knows the ADL is an israeli slander lobby

Aatube OP ,
@Aatube@kbin.social avatar

Not exactly sure what you're arguing about the six-day war, but if you mean that it should be an unjustified invasion instead of "pre-emptive"... My first impression of "pre-emptive" is unjustified and at best marginally better than an invasion, and the UN seems to agree in Article 2 (4) of the UN charter. That "entirely different page" is also summarized in the six-day war–page's "Controversies" section, but I assume you're talking about the lede. "On 5 June 1967, as the UNEF was in the process of leaving the zone, Israel launched a series of preemptive airstrikes against Egyptian airfields and other facilities, launching its war effort.[28] Egyptian forces were caught by surprise, and nearly all of Egypt's military aerial assets were destroyed, giving Israel air supremacy" does not give me an impression that Egypt planned to invade.

The ADL is one of the biggest Zionist slander lobbies that call any criticism of israel “anti-Semitic”.

Even if that were true, "there is consensus that the labelling of organisations and individuals by the ADL (particularly as antisemitic) should be attributed." That converts it into an opinion. Nowhere have you demonstrated that the ADL has a track record of falsifying facts, not opinions such as labeling people.

Linkerbaan , (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Pre-emptive means that an imminent threat is coming and they struck it first. Aka that “israel had the right to defend itself” before even being attacked. Which was a straight up lie.

If you’re not informed about the ADL here’s a decent article on it. The more you read up on the ADL the worse it gets.

Since the 7 October attacks, the ADL has been working with law enforcement to crack down on college campus activism that it sees as antisemitic. They developed a legal strategy to go after branches of Students for Justice in Palestine, and reached out to 200 university leaders calling on them to investigate the group for allegedly providing support to Hamas, which the group vehemently denies. ADL has described grassroots calls for protests of Israel’s military campaign as “pro-Hamas activism”.

Aatube OP , (edited )
@Aatube@kbin.social avatar

Again, Wikipedia's reliable source listings are only concerned about the quality of the source's factual reporting. Having a horrible bias in judgement does not preclude factual reporting.

had the right to defend itself” before even being attacked

And many people think that's wrong. Just saying that that's the reason Israel and most publications claim Israel did that is not claiming that it was justified.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Calling anti Palestine protests pro Hamas or anti Semitism is not factual.

Having a “antisemitic incident counter” which increases every time someone says “free Palestine” is not factual.

Aatube OP ,
@Aatube@kbin.social avatar

Again, labels are considered opinions.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

The ADL is used as a source for “anti Semitism statistics” which are per definition rigged. An organisation that claims to be anti racism and prejudice which raison d’etre is to smear anyone including Jews which are against israel is not just “opinions”. The ADL is a piece of filth that enables Genocide by using anti-Semitism as a shield for israel.

The ADL defies its entire point of existence. Classifying pro palestine protests as anti Semitic and hate speech is per definition a lie.

Aatube OP ,
@Aatube@kbin.social avatar

The ADL is used as source for hate groups outside of the antisemitism topic, such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creativity_(religion).

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Which they also have no authority for becuase one of their other main goals is spread anti-Arab propganda.

Under the guise of fighting hate speech, the ADL has a long history of wielding its moral authority to attack Arabs, blacks, and queers.

In the present, the ADL has continued to militate against internationalist, intersectional anti-racism, and has used its status as “the nation’s premier civil rights organization” to do so. In a particularly painful example in 2016, the ADL’s director wrote a critique of the Movement For Black Lives policy platform, using the black spiritual phrasing of the civil rights movement: he told them to set aside intersectional bonds with Palestinian resistance and instead “keep our eyes on the prize.” At the same time, the ADL has consistently used the language of civil rights, and its position as an authority on them, to describe Israeli state military violence as liberatory and Palestinian resistance, including non-violent civil resistance, as extremist. This habit isn’t incidental: the ADL is now a vetter of content for YouTube, where videos relating to the Boyscott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) movement have been censored as hate speech. It has also reportedly joined forces with Facebook, Twitter, and Microsoft as well to “engineer solutions” to cyberhate, and is building a Silicon Valley “command center” to house these operations.

And one of their source articles where it becomes rather apparent that the ADL heavily pushes for islamophobic legislation

Shalev: You don’t think that “Muslim-baiting” is much more acceptable in the mainstream media than, say, “Jew-baiting”? There is a Congressman now who is calling for the authorities to keep track of the entire Muslim community.Foxman: I don’t think that’s Muslim-baiting. It’s a natural response. It may be wise or unwise. But I think America’s got an issue now, and not only America. You look at France, you look at London, you look at Amsterdam—most of these incidents have come from Muslim communities that have been brought in and are not assimilating. Just like after 9/11, America is now questioning where the balance is between security and freedom of expression: Should we follow the ethnic communities? Should we be monitoring mosques? This isn’t Muslim-baiting—it’s driven by fear, by a desire for safety and security.

Aatube OP ,
@Aatube@kbin.social avatar

I won't reply further if you can't separate bias from objective facts, especially those that are tangential to the bias, such as the history and key persons of a white supremacist group that doesn't involve Arabs.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Pretend Arabs don’t exist as a minority and falsifying antisemitism claims isn’t real!

Just seperate the lies from the truth, ignore the lies and then they don’t lie anymore!

You have been linked plenty of evidence. There’s far more out there and you’re welcome to go look it up for yourself.

foggy ,

No red flags here at all.

All good. Make sure those dissenters get revealed.

I just – wtf is wrong with the world rn…?

Burn_The_Right ,

wtf is wrong with the world rn…?

Conservatives.

Aceticon ,

Fascists.

foggy ,

I mean it’s easy to point a finger at an out-group and ‘orher’ the problem away to something amorphous like fascism or conservatism or theocracy… But it doesn’t help right what’s wrong.

I think it boils more purely down to education. People haven’t been getting a good public education in this country aside from New England, New York, and the West Coast. Some watery areas of the Canadian border, and Colorado too. But beyond that? We’ve kinda incubated a big dumb angry cohort that eats this shit up.

Aceticon ,

The point is the Fascists taking advantage of people’s ignorance and at times stupidy, even taking advantage of Mass Media and (nowdays) information speadring media on the Internet to spread lies and distortions of truth and even weakening education when the have power in order to keep people ignorant and easy to manipulate.

Sure, common people are to blame, partly, and IMHO the sociopaths taking advantage of them are the ones with most of the blame.

Or putting things differently: if I was to constantly offer cake to a morbidly overwheight person who I knew has trouble controlling themselves when it comes to sweet things, they would be to blame for eating the cake but, IMHO, I would be a lot more to blame for knowingly and repeatebly creating that situation were they would end up eating cake.

So, yeah, it’s still down to Fascists, the real Fascists, not the numpties convinced by their lies.

Guntrigger ,

Your point about lack of education is very much valid. But in the context of this article, these are not uneducated people.

The World Jewish Congress might be headquartered in New York, but I wouldn’t call it an American org. It was founded in Geneva, is headed by a Rothschild (French banker) and serves to forward the causes of Israel as a priority.

webghost0101 ,

Capitalism

a_wild_mimic_appears ,

IMO, there can be capitalism without fascism; fascism can subvert every society, no matter what it’s based on.

webghost0101 ,

I wasn’t disagreeing just adding to the chain of things wrong with the world :)

Capitalism loves fascism because it helps inequality. Its hard to exploit a society where everyone is equal, helpful and tolerant.

raspberriesareyummy ,

these days, unfortunately… “They are the same picture”

echodot ,

This’ll have to do as I don’t know how to post images on this client.
🌎👨‍🚀🔫👩‍🚀

Conservatism has always been a thin veil to disguise greed. It’s only about “maintaining the status quo” if the status quo gets you a lot of money already, otherwise it’s about reducing privileges for your own benefit and to everyone else’s detriment. All the while screaming “think of the children”, as some sort of justification.

raspberriesareyummy ,

Fully agreed, sadly…

andrew_bidlaw ,

They can always fork it and see how it goes.

some_guy ,

Fuck Israel.

spujb ,

this PDF will probably be referenced in the “genocide denial” article in the not-too-distant future

Aatube OP , (edited )
@Aatube@kbin.social avatar

The present report does not seem intended to be an academic publication, although it has already been used as a citation in the article Wikipedia and the Israeli–Palestinian conflict.

spujb ,

right, i kind of used the word “referenced” there intentionally, since the actual article would likely cite an actual academic publication which speaks on the matter

thanks for the info!

Aatube OP ,
@Aatube@kbin.social avatar

(I meant to quote from the article but forgot to style it as a blockquote)

(speaking of which, Wikipedia's editors hate decoration, which they consider to be juvenile and include that little pastel vertical line on the left of blockquotes, in favor of the browser default of indenting the quote on both sides)

Tar_alcaran ,

But primary research isn’t allowed as a source on Wikipedia…

spujb ,

(someone smarter than me correct me if im wrong but) in this case it’s considered a non-primary source since the article is citing what the WJC said about Wikipedia (their criticism), not the WJC’s original research on the subject.

disclaimer have edited wikipedia maybe once in my life, only a small clue what im talking about

Aatube OP ,
@Aatube@kbin.social avatar

That's correct, except it's still considered a primary source, which can be cited to see what a group said if due.

spujb ,

wait can you clarify? this comment made me more confused /gen if you are willing

Aatube OP ,
@Aatube@kbin.social avatar

Primary sources and research cannot be cited to support objective facts. However, they can be used to cite criticism from a group. The only difference with your original reply is that being cited as criticism instead of fact does not magically make the source secondary.

spujb ,

okay gotcha thanks for the clarification! love me an internet discussion that ends with me being smarter

Jaysyn ,
@Jaysyn@kbin.social avatar

How about you go fuck yourself instead?

fiend_unpleasant ,
@fiend_unpleasant@lemmy.world avatar

I am Spartacus

Dreizehn ,
@Dreizehn@kbin.social avatar

The Israelis failed to learn the lessons from WW II, because their playbook is from the NKVD and SS. Make peace morons.

SteefLem ,
@SteefLem@lemmy.world avatar

They did learn… there using it in smaller form.

JoBo ,

Please don’t do this. There is absolutely nothing strange or startling about a people who have been subjected to genocide going on to commit it (see also: Serbia).

This sort of finger-wagging is crude and insulting, and the only outcome is far-right Zionists trying to pin the Holocaust on Palestinians and claiming that Palestinian animosity towards Israel is because of a European-style irrational hatred of Jews, not its colonial and genocidal actions.

This is not a morality play.

Milk_Sheikh ,

It is a sad day in history when the leader of the Israeli government hates his neighbour so much that he is willing to absolve the most notorious war criminal in history, Adolf Hitler, of the murder of six million Jews.

Damn. Cut right to the core, without any bluster or hyperbole - because it wasn’t needed.

Blackout ,
@Blackout@kbin.run avatar

Have they never been on Wikipedia before. You can already see the edits and attribution. If their information is correct they should submit an edit and offer proof. Going to be hard for them to sweep the Palestinian genocide under the rug though.

stevedidwhat_infosec ,

This

some_guy ,

Israel has a team of people influencing the image of their state positively throughout Wikipedia. Get fucked.

echodot ,

Well it’s not working

Safipok ,

It’s working, but maybe they want to make it work even more

roastedDeflator ,

Former Israel PM Naftali Bennett at a wikipedia editing instruction event

aeronmelon ,

“Balanced and Zionist in nature.”

He said the quiet part out loud.

Tar_alcaran ,

Balanced and Zionist

“The pancakes should be tasty and composed primarily of vomit”

wildbus8979 ,

I was looking into this thread to see if someone had reposted the video, thanks :)

fastandcurious ,
@fastandcurious@lemmy.world avatar

Bias against Israel is similar to bias against racism/genocide, there is nothing bad about this at this fucking point

stevedidwhat_infosec ,

I don’t like any bias in my soup please

Lath ,

You're going to eat your bias and like it!

DragonTypeWyvern ,

Bias is not making judgements based on facts and history.

intensely_human ,

Bias is being more likely to come to a particular conclusion.

stevedidwhat_infosec ,

This right here ^^^

I think sociology should be taught in highschools tbh. Of all the times to teach people about sociology, teen years seem like a great opportunity to be discussing these things.

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