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What happens if you lose all citizenship?

This godforsaken country is introducing the bill that allows to strip people of birth-given russian citizenship for some things - like desertion and discreditation of army (which happens every time you question war)

So, my question, if someone loses all citizenship, what happens next? Is their life basically over? Is there a way to re-gain citizenship (like, in another country)? Can they be deported?

TheGreenGolem ,

This country? What exactly is this?
US defaultism is hard in this one.

ShaggyDemiurge OP ,
@ShaggyDemiurge@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

It’s mentioned further, this country is Russia, and I’m still stuck in here

TheGreenGolem ,

Yepp, sorry about that, I deleted my comment as soon as I reread the post. I wasn’t paying enough attention.

Ddhuud ,

You become an expatriate

Happy digging.

mdwhite999 ,

This is a webpage from a guy who voluntarily because stateless. identityunknown.org/…/Introduction_A_series_of_li…

driving_crooner ,
@driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br avatar

You can get Brazilian citizenship if you are statelessness, here’s an article about it . Iirc, you can do this from anywhere on the world, but doing it from inside brazillian territory would make it easier.

tram1 ,

What happens is The Terminal, staring Tom Hanks :P

Nioxic ,

International human rights organizations

Maybe be comw a fugitive and leave

LostCause ,

Wait, you are trans and in Russia? That seems like reason enough to flee, I wouldn‘t wait until they become aware enough of you to strip your citizenship. Maybe Finland would be ok: https://en.seta.fi/human-rights-support/asylum-for-the-lgbt-and-activists/

Good luck, I hope you will be safe.

Mic_Check_One_Two , (edited )

You become stateless, and it’s a legal nightmare. Most countries won’t deport you, because they have nowhere to deport you to. But some countries like Australia will detain you until you get citizenship elsewhere. Sort of a catch-22, where you need to apply for citizenship to get out of prison, but can’t because no country wants to grant you citizenship because you’re in prison. The act of being stateless in itself isn’t a crime, but living somewhere without a visa is, and some countries (like Australia) don’t automatically grant visas to stateless people without some other reason like a refugee application.

Prior to the 60’s, it used to be much more common, because most countries use a legal concept called Jus Sanguinis, which basically means that citizenship gets passed from parents to children via birth. America, on the other hand, uses something called Jus Soli, which grants citizenship based on you being born in the country. But if the parents aren’t eligible to pass their citizenship on and the country they’re in doesn’t practice Jus Soli, then the child would be stateless. Back in the 60’s, most Jus Sanguinis countries agreed at a convention to provide emergency citizenship to individuals who would otherwise be born stateless.

These days, the largest causes are typically financial/records keeping issues in third world countries, or are due to politics like you’re describing. In the former, imagine a Jus Sanguinis country where you need to prove who your parents are. But they don’t have copies of their birth certificates or your birth certificate, and you don’t have money to get new ones. There’s also an administrative fee when you try to file the paperwork, and you can’t afford it. In the latter, it’s often due to good old fashioned racism. Certain ethnic groups being denied citizenship (like the Uyghur Muslims in China, or the Koreans in Japan following world war 2.) It’s also commonly due to authoritarian governments stripping citizenship for arbitrary reasons like you’ve mentioned. Russia isn’t the first to strip citizenship; It’s also common in parts of the Middle East.

athos77 ,

America, on the other hand, uses something called Jus Soli, which grants citizenship based on you being born in the country.

I would clarify this from "America" to "most of the New World".

Deuces ,

Dude this is sick! I’ve grown up my whole life in the US and never realized how many other countries do this. Wikipedia has an incredible map: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli

NeoNachtwaechter ,

Why should life be over?

There are just some rights that you don’t have anymore. Some duties, too.

atlasraven31 ,

Hmm, I didn’t even consider the taxes part

AngrilyEatingMuffins ,

Uhhh afaik stateless persons generally live in prisons or airports

NeoNachtwaechter ,

stateless persons generally live in prisons

Only in rogue countries.

ABCDE ,

Like Australia.

Louisoix ,

God, I honestly hope they revoke mine. Come what may, I don’t think the general opinion about Russians will change any time soon.

ShaggyDemiurge OP ,
@ShaggyDemiurge@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Once I can get citizenship in another country, I’m gonna publically burn my russian passport - but not earlier

OwlPaste ,

I’d advise against it if purely for ease of life in your new home country. Some, like UK require you to still have dealings with your previous country.

For example if i want to change my surname to my wifes name, home office demanded that i change the surname in my original passport first. They even say that if you need to physically go to your country of origin to do so, you have to unless they will kill you (for example persecution of LGBT). But i donno what kind of proof they would need to support this claim.

I have a strong suspicion that “burned my passport as a statement” would not qualify, even if it means supporting a terrorist state with cash (because consular services are paid by cash in 3rd world countries.)

merde ,

this depends on your situation. If you did seek asylum from russia, you won’t be asked to “have dealings with your previous country”. You will even be asked not to have any.

OwlPaste ,

They provided me with a list of exceptions but these were all relatively vague and could be interpreted in many ways. For example “wanting not to support a terrorist state financially” was not on the list. Just saying that there may be a benefit to keep at least the expired passport. Maybe in which ever country op goes to, they might have more sensible rules than here.

meldrik ,

Russia is not part of the UN convention that forbids making a person stateless, but I don’t think that would have mattered anyway.

As a stateless person, you can seek asylum in almost any European country.

Gutotito ,
@Gutotito@kbin.social avatar

I mean, in Russia, anything is possible, but in any country that respects the rule of law, you're a citizen if you pay taxes.

spacedancer ,

There are tons of people (legally) working and paying taxes in the US and aren’t citizens. I get what you mean, but…

Wheeljack ,

As a citizen of the US, it's not like we entirely respect rule-of-law. We're all too happy to overlook enforcing laws against rich/famous/corporate, and all too happy to overlook legal protections for poor/immigrants/minorities.

Drusas , (edited )

I don't know if that's true anywhere, but it's not true in either of the countries I've lived in.

Dardlem ,

Not a citizen but a resident.

bionicjoey ,

If your home country revokes your rights as a citizen, I would imagine that it gives you justification to claim refugee status with the UN.

100thCatMarch ,

You'll want to read up on Shamima Begum. She's currently stateless right now. Here's another article from Time if you want more information. Though her case is a bit different since she's a terrorist

another_lemming , (edited )

They did not want to think it through for they didn’t care.

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