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HK65 ,

Americans can turn a handgun into a machine gun with a cheap piece of plastic.

As someone who can count the number of guns I’ve ever seen on my hands, this is incredibly sensationalist. Machine guns are rifle-calibre automatic weapons with significant weight and recoil. You aren’t making one out of a handgun and some cheap piece of plastic if you are not living in Naked Gun.

Carmakazi ,

In typical American legal parlance a “machine gun” is any firearm that fires more than one round per trigger pull, so it’s more or less correct.

I would say it is a problem when criminals have a way to magdump a police cruiser in literally under a second with a concealable weapon.

Forester , (edited )
@Forester@yiffit.net avatar

Clutches, pearls and swoons. The almost hysterical tone that this is written in is not having the effect the author intended.

Ooops ,
@Ooops@feddit.org avatar

Depends on the intended effect… I personally see this as just one single piece in a big wave of equally dilettante articles used to convey one message to the caual reader: that 3d printing is bad, dangerous and needs to be regulated.

And we all know who’s willing to pay money to push that story…

j4k3 , (edited )
@j4k3@lemmy.world avatar

I find these articles funny. A glock switch can be made out of almost anything from a bit of bent metal sheet to carved wood. 3d printing one is irrelevant. When it comes to guns, the arguments are usually idiotic. I can making nearly anything with a small lathe and mill. The gun problem is a multifaceted cultural problem. Their misuse is largely the result of hopeless disenfranchisement of the poor and average person, along with politically leveraging ignorance and corporate capitalist abuses.

How you doing Squid? Any progress on the food health front?

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I’m working with an eating disorder clinic at the moment. We’ll see what happens. Thanks for asking.

massive_bereavement ,

Best of lucks!

grue ,

I can making nearly anything with a small lathe and mill.

I wish I could get a small lathe or mill (let alone both) for the same price as a 3D printer!

(No, seriously: I own a 3D printer but not a metal lathe, and the only reason is cost. If you know of a <$100 metal lathe, link me the product page and I’ll buy it instantly.)

j4k3 ,
@j4k3@lemmy.world avatar

Make your own! hackaday.com/…/the-best-gingery-lathe-video-serie…

cm0002 , (edited )

The problem isn’t the tooling, ofc you can do it with a block of metal and a lathe and mill, but you may or may not have the skillset to be successful

In contrast a 3D printer is cheap, easy to obtain, and can be operated as simply as download file > send to 3d printer

SnotFlickerman , (edited )
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

https://dims.apnews.com/dims4/default/82684f6/2147483647/strip/true/crop/3000x2339+0+0/resize/599x467!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstorage.googleapis.com%2Fafs-prod%2Fmedia%2F6e5a196ddc9147d283933aa645651ef4%2F3000.jpeg

This is Tetsuya Yamagami, moments after he shot Shinzo Abe. I think this guy and it happening in Japan are what people mean by the problem is getting worse and spreading to the world.

Further, I think the unspoken part of this is that so much of world’s so-called liberal order is quickly turning towards more authoritarian ways to control their populations, and what’s happening is you’re having small pockets of people starting to feel like they have no political voice or way to get their voice heard politically, because the systems are slowly shutting more and more real citizens out from democratic choice.

I think about this guy a lot, because what happened to Yamagami’s family was straight fucked up and I wouldn’t have heard anything about it at any point if it hadn’t been for him committing a horrible crime which he felt was justified because a fucking cult had ruined his family. Considering the cult of personality we’re dealing with in the US when it comes to unhinged freaks, I really feel like there’s gotta be more disaffected and ignored people around the world like this, because it’s definitely not just happening here. Now, with 3D printed weaponry, they have a chance to violently make their voice heard in a way that is undeniable.

As liberal democracies turn more and more authoritarian to keep control of their societies, you will see more and more of this from the disaffected who bought into the promises of a better society with more security but instead found themselves in an authoritarian hell-hole with no voice or control.

Badabinski , (edited )

I want to call out something, since I feel a connection is being drawn here that is not valid. His gun was not 3D printed.

Investigative sources said that the gun used in the incident consisted of two metal cylinders wrapped in vinyl tape, which could fire six projectiles when the trigger was pulled. When prefectural police examined the seized weapon, they found it was equipped with an electrical cord and battery and that it was designed to ignite the gunpowder with an electrical current.

Sourced from this site: https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20220725/p2a/00m/0na/021000c

I'm not taking issue with most of what you said, but FDM 3D printers aren't the issue here. Making a gun can be done at home with essentially no tools. I don't think we should get pulled in to blaming societal issues on a single piece of technology.

I'm in a hurry so I've left this comment short, I may come back and edit it with more thoughts later.

SnotFlickerman , (edited )
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I understand that the piece in question is promoting the false narrative that this is tied to 3D printing, rather 3D printing has just made it more accessible. As others here have pointed out, the physics behind gunsmithing has been widely known for hundreds of years.

The takeaway I had was more about societal issues that lead to people feeling the need for a gun to begin with, just a different perspective on the same issue.

Badabinski , (edited )

So, like, I agree with you. We need to make people less miserable. We need to find ways to make people feel less marginalized through better representation, and a reduction in authoritarian measures. I also feel that ending the cycle of abuse that leads to damaged children growing into harmful adults should be prioritized and addressed with better social services (free healthcare including mental healthcare) and societal reforms. You and I fundamentally agree on this, and everything I'm about to say below is the result of me being in a bad mood because my FIL shared some fucking stupid racist GOP misinformation with me about the cats and the Haitian people. I'm being pedantic (and frankly irritating) about this, but I'm just not regulating myself very well today.

I guess I'd question how much more accessible 3D printing is making it. Like, there are definitely gun parts you can 3D print, but they tend not to be the important bits. You can somewhat successfully 3D print the important bits, but that requires a lot of knowledge and skill (printing with high strength/high temperature plastics like Nylon or polycarbonate isn't easy, even with the newest crop of printers), plus a good printer (which is either expensive, or was self-built which increases the knowledge and skill required). If someone wants to make a gun with a 3D printer, they'll have to get a printer (and either spend $1000+ or spend $500 + months making one), learn how to use it, learn how to print with better filaments, buy all the vitamins (i.e. parts that can't be printed) and then they'll end up with a kinda shitty gun. Alternatively, they can do what Yamagami did and buy some cheap metal pipe and a battery and some tape. They'll get a kinda shitty gun without all of the 3D printing hassle for much cheaper.

Hell, if someone wants to make a good gun then machine tools have never been cheaper. I have a metal lathe and milling machine sitting out in my shop right now. I do not (and will never) make guns, but I could. My dad does competitive target shooting (Palma rifle) and has asked me if I could machine stuff for him which is why I've thought of this (I told him no, btw). My lathe was built in the 1950s and was $500. My mill is more expensive (about $4000 brand new), but I'm sure you could make a gun with a used $1000 mill. Machining is harder to learn than 3D printing, but with machine tools you can make more capable guns (i.e. semiautomatic/automatic, accurate, precise, reliable). The drawings are out there, and I'm sure I could turn some 4140 and O1 steel scrap pieces I have into a little gun. I can even make my own springs with my lathe. I have a granite lapping plate so I can make parts that are incredibly flat and smooth. I have a MAPP gas torch that I've used to harden and temper tool steel. A small home machine shop can produce a gun that's as good as anything from, say, the 1940s.

Should we say that companies like Harbor Freight or Grizzly are making homemade guns more accessible because they're selling cheap lathes and mills? I don't feel that's fair. Our technology and automation is getting better in general, which is making guns more accessible. It's why Yamagami was able to kill a world leader with parts from the hardware store. We can't really do much to stop the hardware store problem. All we can do is what you said. We can remove the things that make people feel the need to own a gun.

SnotFlickerman , (edited )
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Excellent comment. Don’t worry about being in a bad mood, that’s totally valid when talking about a subject like this. I agree, we shouldn’t be allowing the conversation to be presented in a twisted light where we act like its a problem of technology and not a social ills problem.

Which is precisely why I wanted to talk about it from the point of view of social ills instead of “oh no, scary 3D printers, ban them or only let licensed professionals use them!” Because while pushback against that perspective is important, that only goes so far if we’re not able to express and articulate a vision of a world where people won’t feel that way or feel the need to blame it on the technology. Kind of like how the left struggles to identify positive male role models for young men, who end up feeling like they’re being told they are evil for being born a man and get sucked into the right-wing manosphere pipeline because those people are at least not making them feel like a villain for existing.

It’s also why I chose the fellow I did, because he did it without a 3D printer (I guess I should have made that more clear in my original comment, my bad). You’re absolutely right that we cannot just solve the hardware store problem without severely limiting access to tools regular people use every day.

However, if we don’t or can’t articulate the alternative, we can’t and won’t get there.

Which cements what I meant about saying “you’ll see more of this happening” not just because 3D printers have simplified certain aspects and made it more accessible to non-traditional gunsmiths, but more because of the social ills which push people to feel the need to pursue such a thing to begin with. As the social ills are not fixed, more people will turn to violence to be heard, whether that’s with traditional methods or modern technology. Violent people are just as likely to use a drone with a bomb strapped to it as they are a molotov cocktail. As you said, it’s not about the level of technology, it’s about why people feel the need to get violent to be heard to begin with.

Zorsith ,
@Zorsith@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

AFAIK, 3d printed guns still need machined metal components to not, y’know, explode in your hand?

ravhall ,

You can buy all those parts online without registration. The only thing you can’t buy is the receiver, which can be manufactured at home very easily. That’s the part that houses the trigger and connects the barrel, etc.

Obviously, the more advanced the gun gets, the more difficult it is to make, but a single shot could be made with stuff from the hardware store.

SnotFlickerman , (edited )
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

You can buy all those parts online without registration.

True, but I think this is more about the wider world outside of America.

Can you buy all those parts online in Europe? Or in Japan? I’m in the USA, so I don’t actually know, but I would assume they would have tighter controls on that sort of thing.

RandomStickman ,
@RandomStickman@fedia.io avatar

The FGC-9 (Fuck Gun Control 9) is designed with European laws in mind, and is amongst the most widespread design out there. Most notably used in the ongoing Myanmar civil war by rebels.

ravhall ,

Some pipe would probably do the trick. It wouldn’t be very good, but it would fire.

Kaboom ,

All you need is a 3/4 inch pipe, a pipe that fits over the other one, a pipe end, a nail, and a drill. Making a single shot is super easy, and the instructions are everywhere.

Anywhere that has a hardware store, you can make a gun very easily.

TipRing ,

The headline doesn’t really match the article which actually points out that the US doesn’t have a 3D printed gun problem because firearms are already readily available there. The 3D printed gun problem in Europe originated in Europe, it didn’t spread from the nonexistent problem in the US. The US has a problem with weapon modifications that break or sidestep existing restrictions, but despite the article’s take, this isn’t limited to 3D printed mods.

Postmortal_Pop ,

This feels a lot more like a dig on 3d printing. Frankly, it’s the only thing you can tie to 3d printing to demonize it and I’d imagine there’s a vested interest in demonizing people that don’t pay a company for production.

Boozilla ,
@Boozilla@lemmy.world avatar

You make a good point. It does remind me (to some degree) of what happened with ripping music and scanning books.

Boozilla ,
@Boozilla@lemmy.world avatar

Dumb question: how do the Europeans get ammo for these 3d-printed guns? Isn’t ammunition also tightly controlled / regulated over there?

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