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EherNicht ,

Actually the USSR wanted to cooperate with Nazi Germany. The only problem was them invading the USSR. You cannot just bend the facts.

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

Actually, the USSR repeatedly tried to form an alliance with western powers against nazi Germany. You cannot just bend the facts.

EherNicht , (edited )

USSR 🤝 Nazi Germany Src: …wikipedia.org/…/Germany–Soviet_Union_relations,_…(see Soviet negotiations regarding joining the Axis)

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

🤡

Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact

Anti-Communists and horseshoe-theorists love to tell anyone who will listen that the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact (1939) was a military alliance between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany. They frame it as a cynical and opportunistic agreement between two totalitarian powers that paved the way for the outbreak of World War II in order to equate Communism with Fascism. They are, of course, missing key context in their effort to uniquely place blame on the USSR.

Background

The loss of World War I and the Treaty of Versailles had a profound effect on the German economy. Signed in 1919, the treaty imposed harsh reparations on the newly formed Weimar Republic (1919-1933), forcing the country to pay billions of dollars in damages to the Allied powers. The Treaty of Versailles, which ended the war, required Germany to cede all of its colonial possessions to the Allied powers. This included territories in Africa, Asia, and the Pacific, including German East Africa, German Southwest Africa, Togoland, Cameroon, and German New Guinea.

With an understanding of Historical Materialism and the role that Imperialism plays in maintaining a liberal democracy, it is clear that the National Bourgeoisie would embrace Fascism under these conditions. (Ask: “What is Imperialism?” and “What is Fascism?” for details)

Judeo-Bolshevism (a conspiracy theory which claimed that Jews were responsible for the Russian Revolution of 1917, and that they have used Communism as a cover to further their own interests) gained significant traction in Nazi Germany, where it became a central part of Nazi propaganda and ideology. Adolf Hitler and other leading members of the Nazi Party frequently used the term to vilify Jews and justify their persecution.

The Communist Party of Germany (KPD) was repressed by the Nazi regime soon after they came to power in 1933. In the weeks following the Reichstag Fire, the Nazis arrested and imprisoned thousands of Communists and other political dissidents. This played a significant role in the passage of the Enabling Act of 1933, which granted Hitler and the Nazi Party dictatorial powers and effectively dismantled the Weimar Republic.

Background

Following the Russian Revolution in 1917, Great Britain and other Western powers placed strict trade restrictions on the Soviet Union. These restrictions were aimed at isolating the Soviet Union and weakening its economy in an attempt to force the new Communist government to collapse.

In the 1920s, the Soviet Union under Lenin’s leadership was sympathetic towards Germany because the two countries shared a common enemy in the form of the Western capitalist powers, particularly France and Great Britain. The Soviet Union and Germany established diplomatic relations and engaged in economic cooperation with each other. The Soviet Union provided technical and economic assistance to Germany and in return, it received access to German industrial and technological expertise, as well as trade opportunities.

However, this cooperation was short-lived, and by the late 1920s, relations between the two countries had deteriorated. The Soviet Union’s efforts to export its socialist ideology to Germany were met with resistance from the German government and the rising Nazi Party, which viewed Communism as a threat to its own ideology and ambitions.

Security (1933-1939)

The appointment of Hitler as Germany’s chancellor general, as well as the rising threat from Japan, led to important changes in Soviet foreign policy. Oriented toward Germany since the treaty of Locarno (1925) and the treaty of Special Relations with Berlin (1926), the Kremlin now moved in the opposite direction by trying to establish closer ties with France and Britain to isolate the growing Nazi threat. This policy became known as “collective security” and was associated with Maxim Litvinov, the Soviet foreign minister at the time. The pursuit of collective security lasted approximately as long as he held that position. Japan’s war with China took some pressure off of Russia by allowing it to focus its diplomatic efforts on relations with Europe.

However, the memories of the Russian Revolution and the fear of Communism were still fresh in the minds of many Western leaders, and there was a reluctance to enter into an alliance with the Soviet Union. They believed that Hitler was a bulwark against Communism and that a strong Germany could act as a buffer against Soviet expansion.

Instead of joining the USSR in a collective security alliance against Nazi Germany, the Western leaders decided to try appeasing Nazi Germany. As part of the policy of appeasement, several territories were ceded to Nazi Germany in the late 1930s:

  1. Rhineland: In March 1936, Nazi Germany remilitarized the Rhineland, a demilitarized zone along the border between Germany and France. This move violated the Treaty of Versailles and marked the beginning of Nazi Germany’s aggressive territorial expansion.
  2. Austria: In March 1938, Nazi Germany annexed Austria in what is known as the Anschluss. This move violated the Treaty of Versailles and the Treaty of Saint-Germain, which had established Austria as a separate state following World War I.
  3. Sudetenland: In September 1938, the leaders of Great Britain, France, and Italy signed the Munich Agreement, which allowed Nazi Germany to annex the Sudetenland, a region in western Czechoslovakia with a large ethnic German population.
  4. Memel: In March 1939, Nazi Germany annexed the Memel region of Lithuania, which had been under French administration since World War I.
  5. Bohemia and Moravia: In March 1939, Nazi Germany annexed Bohemia and Moravia, the remaining parts of Czechoslovakia that had not been annexed following the Munich Agreement.

However, instead of appeasing Nazi Germany by giving in to their territorial demands, these concessions only emboldened them and ultimately led to the outbreak of World War II.

Pacts involving Nazi Germany

  1. The Four-Power Pact (1933): An agreement between Britain, France, Italy, and Germany.
  2. The Pilsudski Pact (1934): The German–Polish declaration of non-aggression normalised relations and the parties agreed to forgo armed conflict for a period of 10 years. Germany invaded Poland in 1939.
  3. Juliabkommen (1936): A gentleman’s agreement between Austria and Germany, in which Germany recognized Austria’s “full sovereignty”. Germany annexed Austria in 1938 in the Anschluss.
  4. Anglo-German Naval Agreement (1935): This agreement with the British allowed Germany the right to build a navy beyond the limits set by the Treaty of Versailles.
  5. Munich Agreement (September 1938): The British, French, and Italy agreed to concede the Sudetenland to Germany in exchange for a pledge of peace. WWII began one year later, when Germany invaded Poland.
  6. German-French Non-Aggression Pact (December 1938): A treaty between Germany and France, ensuring mutual non-aggression and peaceful relations. Germany invaded France in 1940.
  7. German-Romanian Economic Treaty (March 1939): This agreement established German control over most aspects of Romanian economy. Romania became an Axis power in 1943 and was liberated by the Soviets in 1945.
  8. German-Lithuanian Non-Aggression Pact (March 1939): This ultimatum issued by Germany demanded Lithuania return the Klaipėda Region (Memel) which it lost in WWI in exchange for a non-aggression pact. Germany occupied Lithuania in 1941.
  9. Denmark Non-Aggression Pact (May 1939): An agreement between Germany and Denmark, ensuring non-aggression and peaceful coexistence. Germany invaded Denmark in 1940.
  10. German-Estonian Non-Aggression Pact (June 1939): Germany occupied Estonia in 1941.
  11. German-Latvian Non-Aggression Pact (June 1939): Germany occupied Latvia in 1941.
  12. USSR Non-Aggression Pact (August 1939): Known as the infamous Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, this was a non-aggression treaty between Germany and the Soviet Union, also including secret protocols dividing Eastern Europe into spheres of influence. Germany invaded the USSR in 1941.

And this, of course, ignores all the pacts and treaties that Germany made with its Axis allies: Italy, Japan, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Finland, and Thailand.

Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact

Papers which were kept secret for almost 70 years show that the Soviet Union proposed sending a powerful military force in an effort to entice Britain and France into an anti-Nazi alliance.

Such an agreement could have changed the course of 20th century history…

The offer of a military force to help contain Hitler was made by a senior Soviet military delegation at a Kremlin meeting with senior British and French officers, two weeks before war broke out in 1939.

The new documents… show the vast numbers of infantry, artillery and airborne forces which Stalin’s general

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

said could be dispatched, if Polish objections to the Red Army crossing its territory could first be overcome.

But the British and French side - briefed by their governments to talk, but not authorised to commit to binding deals - did not respond to the Soviet offer…

After trying and failing to get the Western capitalist powers to join the Soviet Union in a collective security alliance against Nazi Germany, and witnessing country after country being ceded, it became clear to Soviet leadership that war was inevitable-- and Poland was next.

Unfortunately, there was a widespread belief in Poland that Jews were overrepresented in the Soviet government and that the Soviet Union was being controlled by Jewish Communists. This conspiracy theory (Judeo-Bolshevism) was fueled by anti-Semitic propaganda that was prevalent in Poland at the time. The Polish government was strongly anti-Communist and had been actively involved in suppressing Communist movements in Poland and other parts of Europe. Furthermore, the Polish government believed that it could rely on the support of Britain and France in the event of a conflict with Nazi Germany. The Polish government had signed a mutual defense pact with Britain in March 1939, and believed that this would deter Germany from attacking Poland.

Seeing the writing on the wall, the Soviet Union made the difficult decision to do what it felt it needed to do to survive the coming conflict. At the time of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact’s signing (August 1939), the Soviet Union was facing significant military pressure from the West, particularly from Britain and France, which were seeking to isolate the Soviet Union and undermine its influence in Europe. The Soviet Union saw the Pact as a way to counterbalance this pressure and to gain more time to build up its military strength and prepare for the inevitable conflict with Nazi Germany, which began less than two years later in June 1941 (Operation Barbarossa).

Resources

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Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Why would the Communists want to ally with the most rabid and violent anticommunists on the planet?

EherNicht ,

First of all because they did (facts). Second of all, because they weren’t true communists and just established a dictatorship based on propagated communism.

Cowbee , (edited )
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

First of all, they did not (facts), they signed a non-aggression pact to bide their time while the West refused to ally against the Nazis, hoping that the Nazis and USSR destroyed each other.

Second of all, the Soviets were true Communists and established a Dictatorship of the Proletariat as is in line with Marxism.

Please read theory before you cosplay as an expert in what is and isn’t “true” Communism, it’s painfully clear that the furthest you’ve gotten is Wikipedia.

TachyonTele , (edited )

rEaD tHeOry!

Because that’s all it is, and that’s the only thing people like you have. Nothing real, only rEaD tHe tHeroRy!

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Genuinely, what on Earth are you trying to say here? The other user was trying to say that the Soviets weren’t “true Communists,” which is wrong. It displays an utter lack of understanding what Socialism and Communism even are in the first place. Why speak so confidently on something they don’t know about?

Are you trying to say that the Soviets didn’t exist or something?

dsilverz ,
@dsilverz@thelemmy.club avatar

What about Operation Osoaviakhim?

CyberMonkey404 , (edited )

Idk, what about it?

dsilverz , (edited )
@dsilverz@thelemmy.club avatar

Both US and USSR secretly hired nazi personnel, such as scientists and engineers. Later, both operations were disclosed respectively as Operation Paperclip and Operation Osoaviakhim. USSR didn’t destroy nazi-fascism, they secretly incorporated it (that is, if I correctly understood the reference from the meme, maybe I’m needlessly “ranting”).

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

last I checked Soviets didn’t proceed to put them into highest levels of government

dsilverz ,
@dsilverz@thelemmy.club avatar

Indeed, but even hiring and giving citizenship for such people (nazi scientists, military and engineers), especially considering how they got their “knowledge” isn’t an “ok” thing. Neither for US’s Paperclip.

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

People can be reeducated and rehabilitated, I have no issue with USSR doing that. What I have a problem with is keeping the ideology alive which is what the US intentionally and methodically did after the war counterpunch.org/…/the-u-s-did-not-defeat-fascism…

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Not just the US, though Nazi soldiers intentionally tried to end up as US POWs rather than anything else, and avoided being Soviet POWs rather than anything else.

BurgerPunk ,
@BurgerPunk@hexbear.net avatar

Not just the US

Yeah, their Western vassal states also, and areas under its neocolonial sway.

Nazis were afraid of the Soviets because the Red Army knew there was only one way to deal with facsists. Unlike the US who valued fascists and utilized them extensively during the cold war to fight against socialist movements particularly in Latin America and Africa.

Though it is very on brand for a pro-US clown to stamd up for their pet fascists

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Oh, of course! Thought that carried over from my comment implicitly.

BurgerPunk ,
@BurgerPunk@hexbear.net avatar

Oh sorry! i misinterpreted then. Encountered a lot of western brainworms today so i was in attack mode i guess lol

Cowbee , (edited )
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

No worries, haha. I could have been clearer. You can check my comment history if you want, I ain’t no lib.

BurgerPunk ,
@BurgerPunk@hexbear.net avatar

I hope Isildur’s heir returns to bring communism to save the West from the US

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Doesn’t work because Sauron didn’t get all his ideas from Isildur’s Jim Crow society.

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